Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Who?
Pentecost celebrations (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
- Start date
Who?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Jimmy saville
Otis
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, Pete. Not quite the right person to name drop I don't think.
'Jimmy Savile was nice guy and model Christian," says Church charity director Andrew Graystone
A BBC faith broadcaster has caused upset by asserting that fellow BBC broadcaster, the late Jimmy Savile, was "a nice and genuine guy" who was "one hundred percent motivated by his Christian faith. A model celebrity."
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Id thought that was the answer but didn't want to google. Just goes to show the point you and houch were making. How the hell does a benevolent omnipresent creator allow that to take place? Unless we misunderstand free will and omnipresence. If saville was a Christian I'm a monkeys uncle
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Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
If Saville was a christian, say no more! I rest my case!
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Do you believe the bible, Pete?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
And let's not dupe ourselves he wasn't abusing children as he thought this was the way to follow Jesus. He was a nasty man who made bad bad choices that destroyed lives for many many years. Hope he pays for those actions but then if he's just dead in the ground as you believe then he's got away Scot free and lived the life of riley in earth.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Depends what you mean. It's a compendium of books. Some historical, some poetry, some myth, some instruction. I believe the bible is god inspired written by human beings over the course of thousands of years. But I am a bit of a liberal and believe that in order to interpret life lessons you need to read more than the words on the page. You need to know the culture and use your brain as well as emotion. Your intellect as well as your soul
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
And me. What I find most troubling is my ability to make bad decisions that affect others through impatience, selfishness, pride, greed, materialism, capitalism etc etc. I think that may be the reason Jesus encouraged us to be aware of pursuing righteousness. Can easily become a cop out though. I've done bad, please forgive me, no responsibility to change. Most of us know that's not reality of millions of xians around the world. They truly desire peace, love, joy etc and do all they can to bring it about in their sphere of influence
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Pete
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s law. I have learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you however, regarding some other elements of God’s law and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided that they are purchased from neighbouring countries. A friend of mine claims this applies to French people, but not Italians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Italians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Leviticus 15: 19-24. The problem is; how do I tell? I have tried asking, but like most women, they take offence.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord – Leviticus 1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask a hitman to do it.
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Leviticus 11:10 – it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there “degrees” of abomination
7. Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair round their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of adead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kind of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerate expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help.
Thank you for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
(P.S. It would be a damn shame if we couldn’t own an Italian.)
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s law. I have learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you however, regarding some other elements of God’s law and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided that they are purchased from neighbouring countries. A friend of mine claims this applies to French people, but not Italians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Italians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Leviticus 15: 19-24. The problem is; how do I tell? I have tried asking, but like most women, they take offence.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord – Leviticus 1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask a hitman to do it.
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Leviticus 11:10 – it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there “degrees” of abomination
7. Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair round their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of adead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kind of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerate expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help.
Thank you for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
(P.S. It would be a damn shame if we couldn’t own an Italian.)
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the scene in west wing at the radio presenters breakfast. Do you know it?
I am absolutely content that some of these 'rules' are cultural and not universal truths. I thought id made that as clear as I could from my answer about the bible??
I did not it seems.
I think we should all be able to own an Italian absolutely!!
I am absolutely content that some of these 'rules' are cultural and not universal truths. I thought id made that as clear as I could from my answer about the bible??
I did not it seems.
I think we should all be able to own an Italian absolutely!!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Blue like jazz is a book I would encourage you to read or the shack. The first about how god works and the second about god in suffering. The part of god in the shack is played by a black woman.
Otis the shack is great no answers just broadening of ones mind. Horrible topic but so powerful and helped me see death or suffering as not the only bad things in the world
Otis the shack is great no answers just broadening of ones mind. Horrible topic but so powerful and helped me see death or suffering as not the only bad things in the world
Otis
Well-Known Member
This is what I have a problem with. Fine if you wish to be religious, believe in God and live your life that way. I have no problem with that. An awful lot of Christians though will tell you that the bible is the word of God. At that point I hit a big problem, for it surely cannot be. It is a book of its time written by mere mortals and a lot of these passages about slaves and cruelty and sexuality etc. have to be scriptures written by man reflecting how they saw society and how they felt things had to be.
If there is a God then he surely loves us all, including homosexuals etc.
My question would be, if the bible is the word of God why has there not been a new, fresh updated word of God to reflect the 20th and 21st centuries?
Can't see how the bible can be the word of God because there are so many things that do not make sense and the female of the species is very much seen as a second class citizen in so many instances.
Where is the mention of dinosaurs before Adam and Eve? Why no mention of a round planet, rather than a squar one? Why no mention of other planets, rather than just stars?
Why if God created everything and loves us all, both man and animal, does he allow nature to be so, so cruel?
Sorry to bombard you Pete. Just so much makes such little sense for me in this modern world and I don't see how we can live our lives based on a book from over 1,000 years ago, when times were very different and the knowledge we have today was not in place.
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Which compendium, there are loads of them.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
You're bang on. No bombarding here just a genuine attempt to understand the world around me. The bible cannot be read as one type of book. It can't be the inerrant word of god it just can't for the reasons you've articulately laid out. I am absolutely convinced that god loves each and every person with an equal passion. Unfortunately that includes people like hitler and Stalin but fortunately includes me
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The bible is a compendium. God breathed written with imperfect human hands with imperfect human intellect to reflect their story of god in their lives
Otis
Well-Known Member
The other thing that really does my head in, is that we are just one solitary, single planet and yet there are so many Gods, so many religions and so many of them saying so many different things. I therefore get Jesus is the son of God and then the Jews declaring him a false prophet. With Islam you have Mohammad as having God's seal of prophethood and then you have Buddhists believing in reincarnation.
How can such a small planet have so many differing religions and views of God?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Sorry, but PMSL.
Otis
Well-Known Member
And ALL claim they are right and usually, the rest are all going to hell.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Christian opinion or mine?
Christian - or traditional. They are wrong and will all answer before jesus at judgement time for their belief.
Mine- something like Jesus being the way not being about belief but action. We live his way he welcomes us in
Christian - or traditional. They are wrong and will all answer before jesus at judgement time for their belief.
Mine- something like Jesus being the way not being about belief but action. We live his way he welcomes us in
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What's your opinion? Something as clever as it's all bollox??
Otis
Well-Known Member
You never know, in this instance PMSL could stand for Praise My Saviour, Lord!
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
In a nutshell yes. See above. Religion is a facet of evolution somehow, why I don't know or care, I'm not going to dwell on it.
Anyway, this debate is a waste of time.. I'd rather waste my time talking bollox about football.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
What's interesting is if you look at the Indus valley civilisation, there was no religion. The first religions seemed to spring up in Egypt and Mesopotamia.
What's the difference between the two cultures? It seems volatility of weather. The Indus floods regularly, meaning the civilisation could easily predict the water flow and build their agriculture around it.
The Nile on the other hand apparently floods erratically and would often result in periods of drought or devastating unexpected flood. This meant the Egyptian people would've been looking for answers to unknowable questions ("When will it flood again?") leading to charlatans claiming to be able to provide the answers.
Pete, you seem like a nice bloke and if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone, you do what you like.
What's the difference between the two cultures? It seems volatility of weather. The Indus floods regularly, meaning the civilisation could easily predict the water flow and build their agriculture around it.
The Nile on the other hand apparently floods erratically and would often result in periods of drought or devastating unexpected flood. This meant the Egyptian people would've been looking for answers to unknowable questions ("When will it flood again?") leading to charlatans claiming to be able to provide the answers.
Pete, you seem like a nice bloke and if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone, you do what you like.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Totally agree.
Heard something the other day. Think it was the Persians and Greeks fighting in ancient times and an eclipse of the Sun occurred, so they all stopped fighting believing God was angry with them.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
Maybe we could have an eclipse of the sun over Sixfields when City are playing and Tim and Joy might run out screaming and bring us straight back to the Ricoh for the next game.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Many people post innocent remarks about what they believe regarding the situation CCFC are in...you seem happy to (at least try) to rip them apart & mock them.
How nice
PUSB
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Or 'a new kind of Christian' by Brian mclaren' otis
Otis
Well-Known Member
Shows how out of touch I am, I had to Google him.
Is he the David Beckham of Happy Clappy world?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
That's funny. No he's a pastor who used to belong to the Christian Right evangelical side of things and could no longer hold this with what he thought and saw and started to pursue answers to these questions. Don't get me wrong this isn't about trying to win someone's soul it is a friend telling a friend about something they found
Otis
Well-Known Member
That's fine.
I think if the church wants to sell its messgae it needs to move with the times and develop a more modern thinking.
It's been a start with changes to views on homosexuality and women priests and women bishops etc., but to base everything on a book from thousands of years ago when we are now so much wiser and technolgically advanced and have more scientific fact at our hands, is just daft I believe and more and more people will drift away from the church without real change.
I think if the church wants to sell its messgae it needs to move with the times and develop a more modern thinking.
It's been a start with changes to views on homosexuality and women priests and women bishops etc., but to base everything on a book from thousands of years ago when we are now so much wiser and technolgically advanced and have more scientific fact at our hands, is just daft I believe and more and more people will drift away from the church without real change.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Now Pete, this is exactly why I have a problem with God and especially the bible.
BBC today
'Researchers have found evidence of the world that crashed into the Earth billions of years ago to form the Moon.
Analysis of lunar rock brought back by Apollo astronauts shows traces of the "planet" called Theia.
The researchers claim that their discovery confirms the theory that the Moon was created by just such a cataclysmic collision.'
If there is a God, firstly, why would he create the moon billions of years ago but not create mankind at the same time. and what did he do to occupy himself between those billions of years where there were planets but no man?
And secondly, if God created the world he would just create it wouldn't he? Why would he need to send a planet crashing into another to create a moon? He would just create it surely.
Certainly the more and more we learn and the advances we make, simply makes the bible just a book rather than the word of God. An important book for sure, but just a book never the less.
Live our lives by belief in God, yes, if people wish, that's fine, but for people to live their lives only according to a book written by man for men and obey the laws and rules of a book written only by men and where for the large part women are second class citizens just seems so ridiculous to me.
BBC today
'Researchers have found evidence of the world that crashed into the Earth billions of years ago to form the Moon.
Analysis of lunar rock brought back by Apollo astronauts shows traces of the "planet" called Theia.
The researchers claim that their discovery confirms the theory that the Moon was created by just such a cataclysmic collision.'
If there is a God, firstly, why would he create the moon billions of years ago but not create mankind at the same time. and what did he do to occupy himself between those billions of years where there were planets but no man?
And secondly, if God created the world he would just create it wouldn't he? Why would he need to send a planet crashing into another to create a moon? He would just create it surely.
Certainly the more and more we learn and the advances we make, simply makes the bible just a book rather than the word of God. An important book for sure, but just a book never the less.
Live our lives by belief in God, yes, if people wish, that's fine, but for people to live their lives only according to a book written by man for men and obey the laws and rules of a book written only by men and where for the large part women are second class citizens just seems so ridiculous to me.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No one knows what he did for the billions of years and I think it's absolutely right that a creator could create in whatever way they wished.
I think the bible is a collection of books written in many different forms and for many different reasons.
The nature of the creation narrative in the Jewish holy book is written as a myth not literal truth and this is easily seen by scholars willing to look.
I think you are absolutely right about living by a book or living for god.
Would you read that book for me Otis id love your thoughts on it?
Also thanks for engaging in discussion on this