Grendel
Well-Known Member
Because its now worth fuck all
Only one thing is stopping us playing at the Ricoh - Joy Seppala (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter MichaelCCFC
- Start date
Because its now worth fuck all
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Is that because Labour's got in and introduced a mansion tax, or the HS2 track goes through the driveway?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's because the only thing that makes it worth anything has left the building.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The winner of that streaking contest?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Would that not be down to negotiation between a prospective tenant and the council? I'm not sure you can make the assumption that every tenant will be given revenue access and if they are wouldn't it be factored into the rent charged?
Look at the Ricoh currently, do companies putting on exhibitions and events get access to the type of revenue streams in question? I would doubt it. In fact for things like live music events the more likely scenario is that the promoter putting the event on will have to pay a premium to be allowed to create their own revenue streams such as selling their own merchandise (either a cost per head, flat rate or % of revenue are common). I'm not sure you can assume, just because SISU expect revenues to be handed over to them, every other prospective tenant (not that there are any as far as we know) would feel the same.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
As I have said all along what the Club should do (either Joy Seppala/Tim Fisher) is organise a meeting to discuss a purchase of ACL, extend the meeting invitation to the Director of ACL, Anne Lucas and the senior figures at the AEHC.
The Club tell them that based on the Court's rulings ACL is worth £10.8M, however as a gesture of good will, plus payments of monies owed previously we will pay £11.5M.
Leave the ball firmly in the other park.
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The Club tell them that based on the Court's rulings ACL is worth £10.8M, however as a gesture of good will, plus payments of monies owed previously we will pay £11.5M.
Leave the ball firmly in the other park.
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RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
The loan wouldn't be that bad I roughly make it out to be £351,216 per season to pay off the loan, surely if the Club took over ACL, that would be easily affordable?
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
ACL is not worth anywhere near that surely without the football club? Is that also including taking on the loan?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
According to Italia that was the figure quoted in Court.
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I reckon you're right. However, if we want to get back to the Ricoh then a bit of bridge building needs to be done and it'll probably be SISU that has to get the tools out.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
I'm not getting into the argument of value.
But I should imagine purchasing Acl will never be an option for Sisu because of all the contracts currently in place ?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Minimum of £10.8M.
He also referenced that the loan was almost certainly higher than the value but dismissed this because it is a long term investment.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Glad you have described Sepalla as a thing...a very apt discription
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Based on what and where does it say that?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
ACL is worth "more than 10million and probably less than 14.4m(the cc loan)
ACL with no football club ever again is worth 6.4m and with ccfc paying rent of 1.3 it was worth 19.8 mil.
As Robo says if ccfc bought out ACL and made repayments of 400-500k a year then it would start to make money and paid off due to ccfc moving back in and making realistic signings and pushes to get back to the championship.
A short term 3 year low rent deal could be enough to sort it out once and for all.
ACL with no football club ever again is worth 6.4m and with ccfc paying rent of 1.3 it was worth 19.8 mil.
As Robo says if ccfc bought out ACL and made repayments of 400-500k a year then it would start to make money and paid off due to ccfc moving back in and making realistic signings and pushes to get back to the championship.
A short term 3 year low rent deal could be enough to sort it out once and for all.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
10.8 minimum as according to the judge.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
6.4mil is the figure acl is worth with ccfc never playing there again for the remainder of the 42 year lease.
so in 42 years its worth 6.4 I guess.
so in 42 years its worth 6.4 I guess.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You would think that sisu will turn a profit on this straight away too. IIRC the £ 10.8M figure that the judge quoted was based on ACL without the club, if sisu paid somewhere nearer the latter figure you suggest the moment the club return ACL's value will go up and if sisu was really clever they could try and negotiate an extention to the lease within the purchase again ACL's value go's up.
Hasn't this been sisu's plan all along?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
So they invest £40M in the club to get hold of ACL cheap and make £5M profit when they bring the club back?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I wish people would stop quoting valuations used to drive the price of the debt down.
The judge was quite clear about the validity of the valuations in today's discussion.
Yorkshire bank obviously felt that ACL's loan was worth more than 12m, as they turned that down. That's ACL's ability to pay that, not the worth of ACL.
As with anything, it's worth what the seller will accept, and nothing else.
£10.8m was the judge's guess at a value based on the PwC assessment of CCFC paying £400k rent in January 2013.
The judge was quite clear about the validity of the valuations in today's discussion.
Yorkshire bank obviously felt that ACL's loan was worth more than 12m, as they turned that down. That's ACL's ability to pay that, not the worth of ACL.
As with anything, it's worth what the seller will accept, and nothing else.
£10.8m was the judge's guess at a value based on the PwC assessment of CCFC paying £400k rent in January 2013.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Kinda getting your arguments mixed up there mate. You're right, property tends to increase in value, especially commercial property right next to the M6 corridor when HS2 is planned to stop nearby.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Could be more if they can get an extention to the lease. I dont pretend to know what the figures could be but there is no doubt that with the club back the value of ACL goes up, if they get an extention on the lease ACL's value goes up, if the clubs home and enjoying the revenue streams how much of this would need to go into the team to push for promotion? if the team goes up a league ccfc's value goes up.
To me its a no brainer but to sisu and their investors its probably not enough and theats the real problem at our club.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
What revenue streams are people expecting the club to get?
The football related ones add up to about £100k, not sure that'd cover a promotion push (maybe from the conference). And anyway, they'd be far less than that now as the crowds would be far less.
Nick
Administrator
If the price has gone up, then the price has gone up
I have never said they should get it for free, just a fair price! I have always thought fair would be 3 independent valuations and get an average!
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
£100k in revenue over a 23 game + season? For all food and drink bought in matchday?
That's less than £5k a match.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
and we are meant to believe its all about match day revenues?
Come on do me a favour TF.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I think the top line was about £1M with profits after costs about 115K on an averaged season.
Car parks etc not included although on the £1.4M rent CCFC were give approx. half the spaces to sell on.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Ahhhh. It's profits you mean not revenue. In fairness in respect of FFP £1m is not an insignificant sum.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Have you tasted the shite they used to sell there? I'd say sometimes £5k a match for night games etc would be good.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Fair point.
On the other hand, most matches were that shite that half the crowd seemed to stay in the bar!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
If the price has gone up, then the price has gone up
I've been looking into property investment recently and rule one is look for a motivated seller (bankrupt, divorce, emigrating, etc).
What we don't have here, despite all Sisus efforts, is a motivates seller.
A property (or anything else) is worth what the seller will accept. Especially a business.
As stated repeatedly in the court judgement, what something is worth to a new investor and what it's worth to current owners with different strategic goals, are two very different things.
I know City fans don't want to hear this, but we have no right to the ground and CCC don't want to sell, so we're shit out of luck. Either build one or get a tenancy at the Ricoh.
Frankly, a club in our position shouldn't be looking at building our own ground.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yes profits sorry I misspoke.
In terms of FFP it's not, but we'd still have to find that actual cash from somewhere, most likely the owners. Can you see that happening?
My point still stands: the Ricoh at £9.50 average ticket cost and 6k fans makes more money than the entire revenue (right word this time) of Sixfields plus the F&B revenue from last season at the Ricoh.
If that makes sense.
Note: I'm not commenting on a long term solution compared to owning our own ground. Just the next few years Sixfields vs Ricoh.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What would sisu have to sell at the end? That's where we are. There is nothing tangible to sell so it's a no deal. (But no real reason why a temporary return couldn't be agreed)
EDIT Only read your caveat after posting.
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