Open letter from Joy and Tim (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter CovFan
- Start date
I read the e-mail thought what a lot of bollocks, nothing new, just a bit more polite and manipulative than usual, came here and expected to see a lot of criticism of the letter and there is lots of talk about a step forward and lots of positivity, I can't understand it at all.
"Weak minded idiots" yeah fuck compromise. The ONLY position to take is ignore the club and come back when it's all over. Well done Sir!
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Samo
Well-Known Member
I think it is. For 18 months we've heard nothing but vicious, spiteful, antagonistic, confrontational language and now this. What happened to 'We will only return as owners'? Now they have no problem renting and are talking about reconciliation! The F&B money (which we all know is small potatoes) will be used as the face saver if they secure it. They'll claim to have got what they wanted... we all know that they very much have not.
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Tim Fisher said after the JR that they were willing to talk but he also said that they have always been willing to talk. The fact they have just appealed the JR suggests nothing has changed and that there is no softening. If they had said in this e-mail that they wern't going to appeal the JR then there would have been a reason to be positive, The fact that straight after acl said they will only talk if the legal action is droped, sisu double down on the legal action and then tell everyone yay we are happy to talk shows they have no intention of any deal being done. they are manipulating people once again as they have been doing for the past 18 months.
It seems that despite the fact the last 10 times Tim fisher has held out his hand in friendship its actually been filled with dog shit people are still happily reaching out to shake it at every time he offers it.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Disagree. Very different tone to this statement. They will be talking within weeks/months. Just my opinion of course.
I know the tone is different, I don't disagree that the tone is different, but the actions and lets be honest the actions are all that matter are exactly the same, they have just appealed which shows they have no intention of a deal being done with acl. Thats why its more manipulation, if they really wanted a deal they would pay the 590k and they would drop the appeal and then the fans would put pressure on acl for them.
We've heard friendly tone from them multiple times before though and it was never honest.
spider_ricoh
New Member
I won't give them the benefit of the doubt, due to past form. But today's turnout shows the enthusiasm is still there for a return, and how gladly this would be received.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
They didn't say the F&B in that statement though did they? They specifically said all match day revenues generated.
That could mean share of hotel bookings, casino car park revenue, leased businesses, even the burger van. they mean ALL match day revenue generated. that includes all sponsorships, all advertising, etc etc etc...
This is a significant amount.
That could mean share of hotel bookings, casino car park revenue, leased businesses, even the burger van. they mean ALL match day revenue generated. that includes all sponsorships, all advertising, etc etc etc...
This is a significant amount.
spider_ricoh
New Member
Yeah but it's classic negotation - announce you want the world and its wife, even if you only want something smaller. Then you can whittle away some things you don't care about in exchange for things you do, all in the name of making mutual concessions.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Spider that's not so. It's about the larger revenue streams on match day - all of it which could be significant. This would involve Compass making a concession to not operate on match days instead the club is the only benefactor.
They know this is a very difficult and delicate requirement that ACL can most likely not accommodate.
They know this is a very difficult and delicate requirement that ACL can most likely not accommodate.
spider_ricoh
New Member
One thing's for sure, there will have to be some creative thinking somewhere for a deal to be reached!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Whatever they want it comes down to the same thing. If, as they claim, it is just for the remaining two years of the new stadium project it is largely irrelevant. How much do they receive at Northampton? Even if you don't consider the damage being done to the fan base if they would be £1 better off being at the Ricoh surely that is the best deal. Would it be nice for the club to receive everything, of course it would and, according to SISU, in two years we will so just take whatever deal is on offer so we still have some fans left by the time they open the promised new ground.
Unless of course the argument is that by playing at the Ricoh the club will be worse off financially at Sixfields but I don't think even SISUs biggest supporters have attempted to make that argument.
Mr T - Sukka!
Active Member
SISU
"We have moved on"
"We would never return under tennant agreement"
"Unincumberd freehold" or whatever they said.
"The club comes first"
"New ground info is weeks away"
I have heard so much from these anything said should be taken with a large pinch of salt. Dont believe anything they say myself personally.
"We have moved on"
"We would never return under tennant agreement"
"Unincumberd freehold" or whatever they said.
"The club comes first"
"New ground info is weeks away"
I have heard so much from these anything said should be taken with a large pinch of salt. Dont believe anything they say myself personally.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
They have some fair points but because of their history any statement they make will be met with cynicism and critics and rightly so. I seem to remember them 'acknowledging' their mistakes after relegation and promising better communication with the fans and better links with the community and that was proven to be all bs so why should we expect this to be different.
If someone with credibility and trust was coming out with these comments then there might be a few nodding heads and murmurings of agreement.
Tbh I think for most fans the relationship with SISU is unfix-able so an open letter is unlikely to change anything
If someone with credibility and trust was coming out with these comments then there might be a few nodding heads and murmurings of agreement.
Tbh I think for most fans the relationship with SISU is unfix-able so an open letter is unlikely to change anything
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I said some fair points, not that the entire content of the statement is fair and reasonable
Astute
Well-Known Member
Words won't change anything. Actions will. And as the present actions are more litigation which stops any negotiations and also not wanting to pay ACL any money as agreed is there any reason to believe what they are saying?
Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Sorry Tim and Joy, I can no longer believe a word either of you say. End of .. too long in the tooth now after all the alledged lies I have been told.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Or you don't understand it.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I think noggins point of it's complete bollocks is at sixfields ticket sales were around 500k for the season compared to 3m at the Ricoh so how can it be about FFP when 2.5m was wasted on just ticket sales alone.
Remember joy and Tim said 60p of every pound the football club makes goes back into the team so are we still meant to believe FFP when they chose to lose 2.5m.
Everyone apart from some posters on here have called it financial suicide and to costs yourself 2.5m in ticket sales alone then I have to agree it's complete financial suicide.
P.S if stayed at the Ricoh sisu would of had a much better shirt sponsor and other sponsorship deals, more loyal fans than those betrayed so more ticket sales to unite and with that goes more commercial sales such as shirts and merchandise.
Go on all you want about FFP but nothing about the move to Northampton is about FFP it's gets my goat because the facts yes facts are there and people still try and tell me it's all to do with FFP.
Not having a go at you personally Ian but please don't tell me and also TF and JS it's about FFP. Fact and fact states it's not.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Its a point missed by many. For what 2 lost seasons of ticket sales are costing them at sixfields they could have bought the pigging higgs share.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more. 2 seasons at sixfields and you could have half of ACL as a business not just the football side but the business.
I am really sorry to have a bit of a rant there but it's not and never been about FFP. The figures the facts don't add up in any shape or form.
The move to Northampton was purely for Sisu's financial gain to buy a stake of 50% in ACL at a knock dirt cheap price move the football club back in and make an instant quick profit.
Luckily it has all failed and backfired and greed doesn't win. All this FFP from posters on here is not worth reading. It's Tripe. Yes of course we all want ccfc to get its revenues and match day income it goes without saying but the club sold these so they have to buy them back and for what they have lost in just ticket sales they could of bough Higgs share outright.
Makes me pig sick like this situation always has as fans are caught in the middle. We need to be back at the Ricoh for THIS season. People will come back I am certain regardless of sisu or not. I don't think people should not go if we come back because of sisu as that defeats the object and may as well stay in Northampton. What a statement it would be first game back against Sheffield united and it's 25k and a roaring game 3-2 thriller than 2k at sixfields in a drab 0-0 or 1-0.
I understand it perfectly thank you,
Firstly there is the obvious points like
1) if you care about revenue then moving to Northampton looks even more ridiculous.
2) ACL offered to let them use the revenue for ffp calculations though not actually give them the money.
3) they sold the rights to the revenues so should have to buy them back
The biggest thing that makes it bollocks though is
**The Club does not actually want to spend 60% of turnover on player wages**
They have spent all this effort to cut player wages, if we were at the Ricoh and had a turnover of say 10m they would not want to be spending 6 mill on player wages alone especially since anyone under 20 (at the start of the season) that has come through the youth system is excluded.
Then there is the fact that under the SCMP (ffp doesn't actually apply to league 1, but thats semantics) if the club ever did need to spend more than the 60% they can get around it by injecting cash themselves, the system itself it's almost pointless since it has so many holes.
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
1)The move to Sixfields was clearly not about revenue... and yes I agree that it wad done to try and put pressure on ACL. It hasn't worked so now they have got to take a different approach. As I have said on several occasions, the only viable long term solution is for them to buy out ACL in its entirety.
2) Only an idiot would think that cross-referencing the revenue stream for SCMP is a good idea. All that happens is you are creating a financial black hole, and increasing your reliance on SISU or any owner to inject equity constantly.
3) The club sold the rights... not SISU. It happened years ago. Should it have been dealt with when they bought the club? Yes of course - the lack of due diligence is unacceptable. There needs to be a sensible negotiation to structure a deal beneficial to the club for the short term at least.
The club may not want to spend 60% of it's revenue on wages - it's a limit not a target. We are currently in League 1. If we went back to the Ricoh next season and managed to get promotion, our revenue is not going to increase exponentially is it? So although we may be well below the limit now, being in the Championship will be a different story.
You seem to miss the point that we don't want to have people like SISU (or anyone) injecting equity into the club. That's what we have to move away from, and we need to be able to stand on our own two feet. There is a far better chance of SISU moving on if the club has a sound financial model and can actually become self-sufficient. It becomes a far more attractive proposition to people that actually have money to buy it, as opposed to the charlatans that have plenty of talk but zero substance.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Of cause it has many holes it was drawn up by the FA and FL full of incompetent arseholes who actually have no clue what the fans want
We just want to watch our teams play in our home towns and City's, success would be nice but that takes second place when you are forced to watch your team play in a shithole 35 miles from your home.
So FL need to wake up Sisu need to wake up if they cannot see this then they need to move on and find those that can.
We just want to watch our teams play in our home towns and City's, success would be nice but that takes second place when you are forced to watch your team play in a shithole 35 miles from your home.
So FL need to wake up Sisu need to wake up if they cannot see this then they need to move on and find those that can.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
SISU don't have a strategy to give their investors a return, I've no idea why they are still here.
Do the ARVO & SISU investors even know what is going on? I'm sure if they did their attitude would not be one of letting Joy go ahead with her flawed plans.
Do the ARVO & SISU investors even know what is going on? I'm sure if they did their attitude would not be one of letting Joy go ahead with her flawed plans.
SCMP applies to league one and allows up to 60% of your turn over for player wages. If we were at the Ricoh with a sponsor and selling merchandise etc like we were before they deliberately ruined the club we would not want to be spending more than 60% of our turnover on the wages of say 12 players (because the under 20 academy players are excluded) This is all you need to know to see that they are continuing to mislead (successfully in many cases the fans)
FFP (not SCMP) would apply if we got promoted to the championship, ffp doesn't have a rule about what percentage of turnover you can spend on players, the main rule with ffp in the championship is if you are losing more than £3million a year then the owners have to put money in as equity. You may not lose more than £8 million a year whatever. Since wages have been brought under control we shouldn't be losing more than 3mill a year at the ricoh in the championship so again the rule wouldnt affect us.
"You seem to miss the point that we don't want to have people like SISU (or anyone) injecting equity into the club."
I'm not missing any point,
I don't think the club wants to be spending over 60% of turnover on player wages for those 12 or so people that alone was my main point, I just pointed out that if they actually did want to they still could, it was a little aside.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
They had the chance of getting rid of ACL. That is what the so called road map was all about. But they either used stalling tactics to send ACL under in the hope of getting the freehold for next to nothing or wanted the Higgs share for next to nothing. Take your pick.
All that has happened is that they have cost our club millions and most probably won't be able to get into the same position again as CCC will never believe a word that they say again.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Our turnover in league one would be nowhere near £10m at the Ricoh in league one, it would be £5.5-6.5m. Our turnover in the championship with 15k and the £4-5m PL payments/tv rights, extra that championship teams get, was only circa £10.5m.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Our turnover in league one would be nowhere near £10m at the Ricoh in league one, it would be £5.5-6.5m. Our turnover in the championship with 15k and the £4-5m PL payments/tv rights, extra that championship teams get, was only circa £10.5m.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
fair comment but My point holds exactly the same with 6mill in turnover.
6 Million x 0.6 (ie 60%) = 3.6million to spend on player wages alone not including anyone 20 or under on the first day of the season from the youth system.
So lets assume this means we have a squad of 12 people who will be included in the calculations.
3.6mill divided by 52 (weeks in the year) divided by 12 players, is an average of £5769 a week we could pay these players.
We would be no where near that at all and of course if I'd used 5 mill instead of 6 we'd still be no where near it, in fact ill do that calc for completeness its £4807
The whole talk about ffp is bollocks
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
If you want to spend on player salaries then you need income, from ticket sales, sponsorship, merchandise, hospitality, parking, etc.
The move to Sixfields has slashed income by something like 75% (if not more). Wait till the next season accounts in March, you'll see.
The move to Sixfields has slashed income by something like 75% (if not more). Wait till the next season accounts in March, you'll see.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
March? You're optimistic aren't you?
Samo
Well-Known Member
I think people are kind of missing the point on this statement... Nobody is sussesting its all true that we should be thanking them. We know they lie with every breath and that the F&B argument is bollocks! The reason its good is that its different in tone and is for me, the beginnings of a climb down. No war like rhetoric but talk of reconciliation. Its the statement of a beaten side wanting to talk. I fully expect the money to be paid to ACL sometime on or around the 7th August. Court proceedings to be dropped shortly after and talks to begin shortly after that. Now if they want to use the pie money as a face saver and claim a little victory, that's fine with me as long as we are back in Cov.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I really really really really hope you're right.
I remember feeling the same after the last statement from Joy, or the Igwe statement. The thing is, from what we've learned it could be positive at the time of these statements but circumstances change quickly and unpredictably.
Currently, I don't see a way around the F&B revenue issue if a short term deal. I have a hunch it'll have to be either a reduced rent and no F&B in the short term, or a longer term deal, with more security for ACL, that includes some buyout of F&B, if not of a share of ACL.
My cynical hat (which hasn't served me far wrong when it comes to Sisu) says that it's the beginning of a change of tactics, but not a change of goal. The aim now being to bring fan support against ACL as they know they won't give them short term F&B (and therefore the ability to see into ACLs books).
But as I say, I hope I'm wrong and you're right.