Are People really Bleating? (14 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Hang on Don...I though the new railway, the Ricoh was going to make a mint and rival the NEC, they would have had no problems selling the Ricoh just stick a roof on it.....

And you were pretty adamant the charity shouldn't lose money, they've lost nearly £4m.

You're obviously very happy with this, good for you, good for you.


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I was always adamant the charity should not get ripped off.
I they personally agree to a deal that's fine. They agreed to it.
SISU said they are worth nothing but would give them 2 million because they are a charity.
Now the are getting 3/4 of a million more.

 

---

[blend]

It seems those most upset now are the ones that actually had belief in SISU's game plan and argued that they had somehow been treated unfairly. You will probably see the light one day if not now, maybe when we have subsequent owners and you can look back in defence and say well they're certainly not as shit as SISU were. Leave the past as a place of reference the only difference that can be made is the here and now. They fucked it all up and moved on, time for us to move on. You were never part of their game plan.

 

[Astute]

There are other options than selling...

I thought that was why we'd always put a 'not for sale, especially to SISU' sign up, because there were other options?

CCC always said that the freehold was not for sale. Joy always said it was the freehold or nothing. CCC still have the freehold. And now our club is left with nothing. Pissed off with CCC. Can't describe my feelings for SISU though.

 

[Alan Dugdale]

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/28943.html

Hopefully the link works, but story about the Coventry/ Bedford merger from back in the day. As can be seen the aftermath of professionalism in rugby has brought about plenty of attempts at franchising and mergers in order to get a quick seat at the top table. Interestingly we could easily have been sharing HR with the rugby club!

 

[Ashdown]

They need to

What a wankerish thing to say !

 

[stupot07]

I was always adamant the charity should not get ripped off.
I they personally agree to a deal that's fine. They agreed to it.
SISU said they are worth nothing but would give them 2 million because they are a charity.
Now the are getting 3/4 of a million more.

They offered them £5.5m if they could purchase the YB loan.

£2m offered on not buying the loan.

Wasps have bought the equivalent of the loan, but are only paying £2.77m

All parties lost the appetite to do the deal....I wonder when Wasps started sniffing around...


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[dongonzalos]

What a wankerish thing to say !

I meant CCFC and wasps not the rugby club

 

[robbiethemole]

I don't think he's of Avon valley Stock .

Another School that ended up with a headmaster type Scandal around 10 yrs back.

In those days it was Newbold Grange. Either Lawrence Sheriff or Herbert Kay from that far back.... are you one of Sam's boys, Northern??

 

[Astute]

They offered them £5.5m if they could purchase the YB loan.

£2m offered on not buying the loan.

Wasps have bought the equivalent of the loan, but are only paying £2.77m

All parties lost the appetite to do the deal....I wonder when Wasps started sniffing around...

There are a few things that don't seem right. It makes you wonder if it was a lack of negotiation skills from SISU or was it CCC that had given up by this stage and would have sold to anyone but Joy.

 

[Ian1779]

Lots of good points have been made by several posters yet you won't listen to any of them. Then you say that it is pointless debating with those that don't see your single point :thinking about:

Just answer one thing. If the arena is such a bad thing why do Wasps want it all?

Yeah loads of them aren't there... trouble is they are only good for the council... not for CCFC.

They probably want it as it's going for next to fucking nothing, although I believe they are going to struggle to make money out of the Rugby.. will probably be compensated with other revenue streams.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

They offered them £5.5m if they could purchase the YB loan.

£2m offered on not buying the loan.

Wasps have bought the equivalent of the loan, but are only paying £2.77m

All parties lost the appetite to do the deal....I wonder when Wasps started sniffing around...


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What do you mean by '£2m offered on not buying the loan'?

 

[stupot07]

What do you mean by '£2m offered on not buying the loan'?

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49809


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[Rusty Trombone]

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49809


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Can you be more specific?

 

[Astute]

Yeah loads of them aren't there... trouble is they are only good for the council... not for CCFC.

They probably want it as it's going for next to fucking nothing, although I believe they are going to struggle to make money out of the Rugby.. will probably be compensated with other revenue streams.

Is this the other revenue streams that you say could be the reason that CCC sold for because they are crap?

The naming rights are about up. This could pay for just about the full costs for Wasps. I am still waiting for proof of what Wasps have got for their money. SISU wanted everything including the surrounding land. Have Wasps just got the football arena?

Lots of questions. The most important ATM are about the Higgs 50% and where will it be going.

 

[stupot07]

Can you be more specific?

Paul Harris, a trustee and board member of ACL, had earlier said he had negotiated a deal with Ms Seppala for £5.5m for the charity’s share. 1) this was the deal which was part of the road map in which sisu would buy also buy the YB debt

The court heard evidence that the charity had later pursued a separate deal for Sisu to purchase the Higgs share in ACL away from negotiations about Sisu taking on ACL’s debt from Yorkshire Bank.

Mr Harris earlier gave evidence suggesting this offer was in the region of £2m. 2) this is the deal away from the road map, where sisu didn't buy the YB loan


http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sisu-v-higgs-court-battle-6914945



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[Ian1779]

Lots of questions. The most important ATM are about the Higgs 50% and where will it be going.

I think that's actually the one that will give the clearest answer. I think Wasps have it sewn up, and there's bugger all anyone can do about it.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Paul Harris, a trustee and board member of ACL, had earlier said he had negotiated a deal with Ms Seppala for £5.5m for the charity’s share. 1) this was the deal which was part of the road map in which sisu would buy also buy the YB debt

The court heard evidence that the charity had later pursued a separate deal for Sisu to purchase the Higgs share in ACL away from negotiations about Sisu taking on ACL’s debt from Yorkshire Bank.

Mr Harris earlier gave evidence suggesting this offer was in the region of £2m. 2) this is the deal away from the road map, where sisu didn't buy the YB loan


http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sisu-v-higgs-court-battle-6914945



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Who was going to pay the loan then?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

We have had nothing but bullshit and mistruths from SISU, it's not like we'd expect anything different. But we've had just as much of that from the council. Except their actions and motives are justified apparently

I'm sick and tired of people trying to pretend there's something even close to an equal share of blame in all of this. Before the Judicial Review, I'd grant that view the time of day; but to hold it still now is astonishing. 'Just as much from the council'? Incredible logic. Simply staggering.

I'm also sick and tired of people who have had zero interest in rugby at all, or who worse still have posted 'fuck the egg chasers' or the like, suddenly using Coventry Rugby Club as the latest excuse for their habitually wrong view.

And Wasps aren't in Europe, eh? Well fuck my black boots, there must be some more franchise sports malarkey going on and someone's relocated Castres from the mid-Pyrenees to East Sussex, as I'm sure Wasps are playing them in the European Champions Cup fixture at the Ricoh in December....

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I think that's actually the one that will give the clearest answer. I think Wasps have it sewn up, and there's bugger all anyone can do about it.

Seems that way, until it's official though I'll retain a sliver of hope.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Who else was going to buy it?

I don't know if you missed what the JR was about and how it ended but it was SISU who made out that things have happened and it was the council defending themselves against what was being made out. I'm no expert in law so I have to accept the Judge's view that what SISU made out wasn't what actually happened.

Surely if the council were going to sell such a profitable and succesfull, "World Class" facility, then it would have been their duty to the ratepayers to publically put the sale of the leasehold up for competititve tender?

Doing a deal behind closed doors, with one party is hardly doing that is it?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Surely if the council were going to sell such a profitable and succesfull, "World Class" facility, then it would have been their duty to the ratepayers to publically put the sale of the leasehold up for competititve tender?

Doing a deal behind closed doors, with one party is hardly doing that is it?

I thought they did publically invite people's best offers.

 

[lordsummerisle]

I thought they did publically invite people's best offers.

Really?

When was that then?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Surely if the council were going to sell such a profitable and succesfull, "World Class" facility, then it would have been their duty to the ratepayers to publically put the sale of the leasehold up for competititve tender?

Doing a deal behind closed doors, with one party is hardly doing that is it?

Look, let's not be disingenuous, it's not 'world class' now. However, run by the right people, as a rugby venue at club level, it could be.

No other football team would reasonably move in as anchor tenant; and when I mentioned a rugby team using it last year; there were hoot of derision and cackles of delight. across this board in response.

ACL has been doing 'okay'; it's accounts tell us that - but the Ricoh is a preposterous embarrassment without a sporting team using it; and against that backdrop the council have sold to a rrespected, high-profile organisation that will bring supporters into the city, raise the profile internationally, and divested their interest as a decent price point given the reprehensible recent behaviour of the football club's owners.

That's it. Time now to turn your unique poison in the direction of the organisation that repeatedly blew it's option on the stadium, surely?

 

[skybluetony176]

Surely if the council were going to sell such a profitable and succesfull, "World Class" facility, then it would have been their duty to the ratepayers to publically put the sale of the leasehold up for competititve tender?

Doing a deal behind closed doors, with one party is hardly doing that is it?

Pretty sure I saw AL on TV saying they'd listen to any offer just before meeting with JS around a year ago. It was hardly a secret. Which other sports clubs do you think should have bid for this sports stadium if they did put a for sale sign up?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Really?

When was that then?

Ann Lucas told the council: “I’ve promised any conversation I have with Ms Seppala would remain private. Anything that’s come out of that room has not come from me.


“I’ve made it clear and it’s no secret I am prepared to talk to, and do business with, any sensible legitimate business person with any offer to make. Nothing is ruled in and I have never ruled anything out.


“I’ve never said I would favour any organisation and I’ve definitely not said I would disfavour any organisation either.”

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-council-leader-says-ricoh-6370106

 

[Moff]

No really a constructive point.

Please explain the majority of people's reaction if SISU build a new stadium as promised outside Coventry. After the council reject Wasps.

Some smart arse does the figures and saying no to Wasps cost the city......

So many millions say 10 million per year in revenue
So many Jobs say 200
So much profile for the city
The charity a chance to get out and recoup some money to reinvest in the city.
Regeneration around the stadium.
So much money back in the councils budget.

They can't make the decision to say no to wasps on all the evidence presented.

OK, just a couple of points.

First and foremost what regeneration around the stadium? have you a source? as I am yet to hear of the proposals.
Where do you base 10 million a year revenue from?
How will Wasps moving in create 200 jobs?

As I see it, its a disgrace that the ground was never purchased by SISU.

I also feel that its strange that those who said ACL is such a viable buisness when the club left, have suddently claimed the Council had no option but to sell. Why if it was a profitable business?

I also think its hypocricy in the extreme by the Council to sell to a club that is moving miles from its base, when it regularly entered the press to call for CCFC to come home when we moved to Northampton as the Club belonged in its 'home' city (as it should bloody well be) and also sued Northampton over it allowing CCFC to move there.

I know people will disagree, but I cant understand this sudden acceptance that high profile (not that high) Wasps are going to make a difference to the Ricoh and the City. They are pretty poorly supported as it is, and I can see there crowds quickly dwindle as the novelty wears off, watching another mid to lower league team, just in a different sport.

Whilst I cant wait to see the back of SISU I also cant understand the desire of some on the site to see Wasps take over the club, as already despising and being highly suspicious of secretive owners that are prepared to move the club from its home base, why would we want another who have done exactly the same?

 

[martcov]

I don't think anyone that is criticising the council has ever said that SISU were blameless. Trying to blame the owners because the council sold out it's own city.

The council did the only thing they could do. Get out. The owners are 7 years in Coventry and have not achieved what Wasps have achieved. It is not a question of trying to blame the owners, it is blatantly obvious that the owners have failed our club - CCFC. They are to blame. The buck stops with the people in charge - SISU. Enjoy the new stadium. PUSB.

 

[Moff]

And Wasps aren't in Europe, eh? Well fuck my black boots, there must be some more franchise sports malarkey going on and someone's relocated Castres from the mid-Pyrenees to East Sussex, as I'm sure Wasps are playing them in the European Champions Cup fixture at the Ricoh in December....

Fellow egg chasing fan. I hate to point out that that European Competition is for the bridesmaids, the real one the European Rugby Champions Cup is played by the proper teams. I will let you know what its like, and the Saints send their love

 

[Ashdown]

Look, let's not be disingenuous, it's not 'world class' now. However, run by the right people, as a rugby venue at club level, it could be.

No other football team would reasonably move in as anchor tenant; and when I mentioned a rugby team using it last year; there were hoot of derision and cackles of delight. across this board in response.

ACL has been doing 'okay'; it's accounts tell us that - but the Ricoh is a preposterous embarrassment without a sporting team using it; and against that backdrop the council have sold to a rrespected, high-profile organisation that will bring supporters into the city, raise the profile internationally, and divested their interest as a decent price point given the reprehensible recent behaviour of the football club's owners.

That's it. Time now to turn your unique poison in the direction of the organisation that repeatedly blew it's option on the stadium, surely?

I've always really respected your opinions and your loyal support and contribution into CCFC. I have always been in total alliance with your views and understanding on the SISU situation too, who lets face it are highly culpable in all of this, however your obvious rapid support and acceptance of this immoral franchise due to your historical rugby affiliations is disappointing if not demoralising. We all know who is to blame for this shit but to turn turtle on the Coventry teams is traitorous to say the least !

 

[lordsummerisle]

Look, let's not be disingenuous, it's not 'world class' now. However, run by the right people, as a rugby venue at club level, it could be.

No other football team would reasonably move in as anchor tenant; and when I mentioned a rugby team using it last year; there were hoot of derision and cackles of delight. across this board in response.

ACL has been doing 'okay'; it's accounts tell us that - but the Ricoh is a preposterous embarrassment without a sporting team using it; and against that backdrop the council have sold to a rrespected, high-profile organisation that will bring supporters into the city, raise the profile internationally, and divested their interest as a decent price point given the reprehensible recent behaviour of the football club's owners.

That's it. Time now to turn your unique poison in the direction of the organisation that repeatedly blew it's option on the stadium, surely?

The reason why "World Class" was in quotes because it is a description used by many to describe the Arena.

The Wasps offer is no better, in fact looks worse than the one that Sisu made for 50% of ACL before all the court cases and move to Northampton.

Have the council, with the sale to a Rugby Club from well outside the local area, that will impinge on already well established local sporting clubs, that hasn't got enough fans to make ends meet where it currently is(much, much closer to it's traditional fanbase than it will be in Coventry), fully carried out it's social and fiduciary responsibilities?

Not in the slightest.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Fellow egg chasing fan. I hate to point out that that European Competition is for the bridesmaids, the real one the European Rugby Champions Cup is played by the proper teams. I will let you know what its like, and the Saints send their love

I acknowledge that; as equally you'll acknowledge a French team from the Pyrenees do count as 'European' opposition! You enjoy your time with Cockers and his mates; as long as he's still there...

 

[Moff]

I acknowledge that; as equally you'll acknowledge a French team from the Pyrenees do count as 'European' opposition! You enjoy your time with Cockers and his mates; as long as he's still there...

Wash your mouth out with soap young man. I am no fan of those Leicester folk, mine come from the town I would watch rugby in, but not my football team in.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The reason why "World Class" was in quotes because it is a description used by many to describe the Arena.

The Wasps offer is no better, in fact looks worse than the one that Sisu made for 50% of ACL before all the court cases and move to Northampton.

Have the council, with the sale to a Rugby Club from well outside the local area, that will impinge on already well established local sporting clubs, that hasn't got enough fans to make ends meet where it currently is(much, much closer to it's traditional fanbase than it will be in Coventry), fully carried out it's social and fiduciary responsibilities?

Not in the slightest.

Of course the Wasps offer was better. It existed and survived for longer than Fisher did his Homer Simpson 'monkey-with-cymbals-in-his-head' impression for. The SISU 'bid' was without candour compared to the one now accepted.

And the council have exercised their lawful responsibility to the totality of their electorate. 97% never come to watch the football club at The Ricoh. As such, the council's deal bears fiduciary responsibility to the vast majority of the people it serves and who don't watch football 'live'.

Especially given the backdrop of the football club's owners incessant and habitual failure to exercise its options toward ownership, and assertion it preferred to build anew. A fact you just don't want to face up to, or seemingly judge as harshly as you will the council

 

[Rusty Trombone]

The reason why "World Class" was in quotes because it is a description used by many to describe the Arena.

The Wasps offer is no better, in fact looks worse than the one that Sisu made for 50% of ACL before all the court cases and move to Northampton.

Have the council, with the sale to a Rugby Club from well outside the local area, that will impinge on already well established local sporting clubs, that hasn't got enough fans to make ends meet where it currently is(much, much closer to it's traditional fanbase than it will be in Coventry), fully carried out it's social and fiduciary responsibilities?

Not in the slightest.

Is that the offer that SISU didn't want to carry on with?

 

[dongonzalos]

OK, just a couple of points.

First and foremost what regeneration around the stadium? have you a source? as I am yet to hear of the proposals.
Where do you base 10 million a year revenue from?
How will Wasps moving in create 200 jobs?

As I see it, its a disgrace that the ground was never purchased by SISU.

I also feel that its strange that those who said ACL is such a viable buisness when the club left, have suddently claimed the Council had no option but to sell. Why if it was a profitable business?

I also think its hypocricy in the extreme by the Council to sell to a club that is moving miles from its base, when it regularly entered the press to call for CCFC to come home when we moved to Northampton as the Club belonged in its 'home' city (as it should bloody well be) and also sued Northampton over it allowing CCFC to move there.

I know people will disagree, but I cant understand this sudden acceptance that high profile (not that high) Wasps are going to make a difference to the Ricoh and the City. They are pretty poorly supported as it is, and I can see there crowds quickly dwindle as the novelty wears off, watching another mid to lower league team, just in a different sport.

Whilst I cant wait to see the back of SISU I also cant understand the desire of some on the site to see Wasps take over the club, as already despising and being highly suspicious of secretive owners that are prepared to move the club from its home base, why would we want another who have done exactly the same?

The figures were as I thought you may realise hypothetical.
If the council did not do the deal with Wasps on the basis that SISU 'may' against everything they are saying change their minds and buy ACL.
They go ahead as they maintain and build a stadium outside Coventry.
People have said that ACL just needs to break even in order to not be distressed. Their books suggest they were doing just that.
However the charity always maintained it did but want t be there for the long haul.

Wasps have said they will build a new training facility. That creates jobs.

They have talked about developing the land as well.

The council gave a figure of the estimated revenue to the city when wasps played a few games before.

My point is that someone will bring all this up and the council will get slaughtered if SISU build the new stadium and North Warwickshire get all the increase in jobs, revenue and profile.

Whilst the Ricoh continues to break even or makes small profit.

The council will get lambasted with the figures if what they turned down.

Why did they turn it down because they did not believe what SISU kept telling them over and over again

On here we have repeatedly been told no one else will put a sports team in the Ricoh.

If that is the case this is a freak opportunity that will not be repeated.

Most just understand the council had no choice.
SISU had a real choice (unless the money isn't there)