Wasps do have the veto (14 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

Everyone posting on here has a choice to make - they can points score and rehash arguments while CCFC hits ever more lows or take the view that trying to do something to save ccfc is more important and focus on talking about that

Problem with that is we all have different ways forward, and some would be all for a Wasps takeover, some all for 100% fan ownership... and to a degree, inevitably, we end up back in the same circles anyway.

Shouldn't we go even simpler than that, and ask how to get more people to actually *care*?

 

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[Ian1779]

Thanks for setting me straight on my motive and agenda! I came on here looking for something to cheer me up about ccfc, was totally depressed by the posts I read but you have at last made me laugh. What you say is solely the product of your own imagination and bears no relation to reality but you have at least me me smile. Cheers!

How about you start by not criticising posters for the very thing you do most often.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Well we are now to choose between seriously attempting to build a new ground or becoming a permanent pay packet for Wasps. Genuine question, which would you prefer?

The sixfields move was often portrayed in a similar yes/no way and I always took the view that you should fight for what you want and not accept a shit choice other people try to foist on you. Same now - as I'm trying to express in other posts, we could try stopping the points scoring and bickering and instead focus on what as fans we want to happen and then how do we fight for that

 

[Ian1779]

Better then hanging on Tim Fishers every word don't you think?

If 2 said people were firmly entrenched in the anti SISU camp you'd be all over it.

That's your problem. You only listen to what you want to hear. Everything else is just lies in your mind.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I always took the view that you should fight for what you want and not accept a shit choice other people try to foist on you.

Aren't we back to pragmatism though? In an ideal world I'd like a 25k stadium somewhere around Warwick Uni, with academy on-site, and then taken over by a laughably rich local benefactor who's never been near the club before and remains untainted.

I suspect fighting for that is a forlorn hope, however!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

See, I can get why, now they're here, the local clubs have to work with Wasps really, *have* to, because otherwise they get trampled over. I can see how it could be helpful to Rugby too, given they're on their knees after the odd mentalist, it offers the chance for a leg up and a shot in the arm where currently there's limited chance for that.

I'm sure there must be a better way though. An ideal scenario given where we are could be that the local teams get that bump... then Wasps bog off having spent their cash they don't have, leaving the local clubs to fill the void. Everyone then is a winner long term

The problem is though, once you normalise things (like the Rugby Academy system, as you point out!) it often comes back to haunt you at a later stage.

Two-way street early doors; hence the jostling for position. Wasps also need the local clubs. They need the feeder-maps redefining so they can get the best young players in the areas the're now located. They need the support of the local clubs via the RFU to get that in 2016.

But - success; there's an issue. They're expecting a big gate against London Irish on the 21st. I can't see it. I think there'll be some unhappy faces at about 6pm that evening......

 

[torchomatic]

I think the only option Michael is to wait 251 years and then try and get the Ricoh back.

 

[Ian1779]

The sixfields move was often portrayed in a similar yes/no way and I always took the view that you should fight for what you want and not accept a shit choice other people try to foist on you. Same now - as I'm trying to express in other posts, we could try stopping the points scoring and bickering and instead focus on what as fans we want to happen and then how do we fight for that

So let's say we do what you suggest. The only logical step is going to be supporting the current owners as they are in control.

Are you prepared to do that for the greater good?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The sixfields move was often portrayed in a similar yes/no way and I always took the view that you should fight for what you want and not accept a shit choice other people try to foist on you. Same now - as I'm trying to express in other posts, we could try stopping the points scoring and bickering and instead focus on what as fans we want to happen and then how do we fight for that

We also need realism otherwise people will end up wasting their time and effort on a hopeless cause. Wasps aren't selling their stake and they are going to rip us off no question so it really is a black and white case. Ricoh as tenants or elsewhere as owners-neither is palateable.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But - success; there's an issue. They're expecting a big gate against London Irish on the 21st. I can't see it. I think there'll be some unhappy faces at about 6pm that evening......

The irony is despite being more against it than you (it seems) I can see a big gate then, because they seem to at least be aware of the need for it. At the end of the day, a large crowd for that game probably of far more value than not subsidising ticket giveaways.

We shall see, I guess...

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Problem with that is we all have different ways forward, and some would be all for a Wasps takeover, some all for 100% fan ownership... and to a degree, inevitably, we end up back in the same circles anyway.

Shouldn't we go even simpler than that, and ask how to get more people to actually *care*?

The reason there is an opportunity at this point in time is because 99.9% of people agree things are completely shit (you'll never get 100% agreement). If just about everyone agrees with that it then provides a focus for talking about options. But that's never going to happen while some people choose to just repeat the same old arguments and are more interested in being pro/anti sisu/ccc. That has never got us anywhere and we collectively need to move on

 

[dongonzalos]

And while they were privately negotating with Wasps they were privately doing a deal for us to return too. And worst of all publically declaring they wanted to "rebuild trust".

Probably but I would guess we came back at a haste when we realised the wasps deal was not a bluff and we needed to be in the stadium to be part of the sale.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The irony is despite being more against it than you (it seems) I can see a big gate then, because they seem to at least be aware of the need for it. At the end of the day, a large crowd for that game probably of far more value than not subsidising ticket giveaways.

We shall see, I guess...

And our council has helped with the advertising too, which it never did for the city's own clubs.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

We also need realism otherwise people will end up wasting their time and effort on a hopeless cause. Wasps aren't selling their stake and they are going to rip us off no question so it really is a black and white case. Ricoh as tenants or elsewhere as owners-neither is palateable.

"Wasting time and effort on a hopeless cause2 was exactly what plenty of people said on here about fighting against sixfields!

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Problem with that is we all have different ways forward, and some would be all for a Wasps takeover, some all for 100% fan ownership... and to a degree, inevitably, we end up back in the same circles anyway.

Shouldn't we go even simpler than that, and ask how to get more people to actually *care*?

To get people to care first you have to get the supporters back.

Sorry but that was Sisu biggest mistake took the supporters for granted thought they would take all this shit.

So yes most see them as the devil and will never trust them Till they are gone we are fucked.

I have meet with them on numerous occasions and they say one thing and then do the opposite.
Unfortunately their are a gullible few who hang on their every word.

They tell us that their deal is better then the Wasps, we only have their word for it .
I for one would take that with a pinch of salt until I see it in person.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

"Wasting time and effort on a hopeless cause2 was exactly what plenty of people said on here about fighting against sixfields!

Our return to Coventry from Sixfields was an inevitability. It was always within the club's power to return, this time there are 2 things it can pursue and owning ACL isn't one of them. I'll tell you one thing though, Lucas and her Labour cronies getting booted out at the next election would do me no end of satisfaction.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

So let's say we do what you suggest. The only logical step is going to be supporting the current owners as they are in control.

Are you prepared to do that for the greater good?

You're on great form! That's a genuine lol moment. All I care about is putting the interests of the team and fans first and neither ccc nor sisu do that

 

[Deleted member 5849]

To get people to care first you have to get the supporters back.

Sorry but that was Sisu biggest mistake took the supporters for granted thought they would take all this shit.

So yes most see them as the devil and will never trust them Till they are gone we are fucked.

I have meet with them on numerous occasions and they say one thing and then do the opposite.
Unfortunately their are a gullible few who hang on their every word.

They tell us that their deal is better then the Wasps, we only have their word for it .
I for one would take that with a pinch of salt until I see it in person.

In the absence of owners able to galvanise a city, it's all our responsibility to do that.

And probably safe to say we've failed.

We can bang on about what SISU have done wrong, but that doesn't help the city as a whole see the importance of its football club. I'm not even talking about gates, I'm talking about piss-poor election results, 5 shouty bald men outside a council office (and 5 only) and the general shrugging of shoulders and meh.

 

[torchomatic]

I think LAST is going to prove us wrong there. They did "apparently".

And our council has helped with the advertising too, which it never did for the city's own clubs.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Our return to Coventry from Sixfields was an inevitability. It was always within the club's power to return, this time there are 2 things it can pursue and owning ACL isn't one of them. I'll tell you one thing though, Lucas and her Labour cronies getting booted out at the next election would do me no end of satisfaction.

"Our return to Coventry from Sixfields was an inevitability". Why didn't you say so then - it would have saved a lot of people a lot of time and effort

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think LAST is going to prove us wrong there. They did "apparently".

If I'm wrong I'll be glad to be proven so.

 

[torchomatic]

Nah don't worry, you're not wrong. CCC never advertised CCfC or CRFC. It was a kneejerk thing as he had to defend the council's promotion of the new franchisees.

If I'm wrong I'll be glad to be proven so.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

"Our return to Coventry from Sixfields was an inevitability". Why didn't you say so then - it would have saved a lot of people a lot of time and effort

It was no doubt hastened by the boycott and negative publicity. But I'm asking you, what exactly are you campaigning for right now? What 3rd option do you see for the fans to rally behind?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

So....anyone going tomorrow night? As a reflection of our current state no one I usually go with is going so I'm going to be billy no-mates so if anyone fancies a pre match drink let me know and I'm sure we'd find we agree on a heck of a lot more than we disagree about

 

[MichaelCCFC]

It was no doubt hastened by the boycott and negative publicity. But I'm asking you, what exactly are you campaigning for right now? What 3rd option do you see for the fans to rally behind?

I don't have a particular view beyond it would be good to talk about it but there are always options. If you do nothing then nothing will change - if you try things, something might just work. There is opposition to wasps and opposition to sisu so put pressure on both. Just thinking aloud, a protest on 21 dec and a boycott of merchandise - not saying either are any good and other people will have much better ideas. But if everyone sits back and does nothing then we are really are screwed

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't have a particular view beyond it would be good to talk about it but there are always options. If you do nothing then nothing will change - if you try things, something might just work. There is opposition to wasps and opposition to sisu so put pressure on both. Just thinking aloud, a protest on 21 dec and a boycott of merchandise - not saying either are any good and other people will have much better ideas. But if everyone sits back and does nothing then we are really are screwed

The best outcome is for the club to have access to all the revenue it produces without having to pay rent. No chance of Wasps enabling either so it remains to build and own a ground elsewhere if they can't be negotiated with.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

The best outcome is for the club to have access to all the revenue it produces without having to pay rent. No chance of Wasps enabling either so it remains to build and own a ground elsewhere if they can't be negotiated with.

It's too late at night to start this discussion but would be good to pick it up tomorrow. Bottom line is let's learn from the sixfields campaign and the experience at other clubs eg swansea, pompey etc. Fans can make things happen - if they stop bickering among themselves and work together. Is it certain wasps will be here for 250 yrs or are they taking a big risk and have weak points where pressure can be applied? are sisu going to be here forever or is their position so weak pressure can be applied to them? there's a lot of options well worth talking about

 

[Neutral Fan]

This arrangement guarantees Cov Rugby will permanently be the smaller rugby club in its own city. I'm no follower of rugby so wasn't aware of the Worcester arrangement which is just as insulting a set-up. What I want is for all the city's sports teams to succeed and that will not happen if local talent is sent elsewhere and it definitely will not happen with an imported franchise setting up shop here. The best attended rugby club in England, Saracens, can't even pull in 15,000 a week. It's pathetic.

Got to pick up on that last point. Northampton Saints get around 17,000 with the expanded Franklins Gardens.

Anyway, not really central to this thread....

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Got to pick up on that last point. Northampton Saints get around 17,000 with the expanded Franklins Gardens.

Anyway, not really central to this thread....

Incredible.

 

[James Smith]

Our return to Coventry from Sixfields was an inevitability. It was always within the club's power to return, this time there are 2 things it can pursue and owning ACL isn't one of them. I'll tell you one thing though, Lucas and her Labour cronies getting booted out at the next election would do me no end of satisfaction.

Yeah it would be nice that they got their just deserts after being so hypocritical and two faced.

 

[mattylad]

Got to pick up on that last point. Northampton Saints get around 17,000 with the expanded Franklins Gardens.

Anyway, not really central to this thread....

Leicester regularly get over 20,000

 

[Grendel]

With the utterly dire position we are in on and off the pitch you'd have thought sticking together and fighting for our club might be an idea but you just engage in petty point scoring, rehash the same old pointless arguments and insult fellow City fans. You may not mean to, but you sound like you're enjoying the current situation

I think a few others like Spider Ricoh are enjoying it far far more

 

[torchomatic]

I think he even used the word "good!"

I'm sure Michael's on to it though.

I think a few others like Spider Ricoh are enjoying it far far more

 

[duffer]

Dai Young is meeting with Scott Morgan this week to start work on joint player development. Peter Rossborough was representing CRFC, and 44 of the other 46 local clubs also sent attendees or delegations.

At the moment, all local talent (Coventry, Warwickshire) is routed via Worcester, of course. This ends in 2016. After this, it's fair to expect Wasps to pitch hard for it - and I'd guess they'll be successful. At that point, it's fair to say all local talent, rather than going to Worcester, will stay in Coventry via the Wasps-Coventry partnership. In that regards, it's very much a positive, I guess.

Wasps have stated that their preferred slot will be Sundays at 2pm; and CRFC will be Saturday at 3pm; so no fixturing clash

Cheers for the update MMM, it's much appreciated. Always good to get this sort of stuff first-hand.

Having said that, there's a few points from this and some of your later posts that I'd politely dispute.

Firstly, I've got to make the point that Eastwood is going to say what he thinks people want to hear, rather than the true reality of the situation. We shouldn't accept it uncritically, imho, even though it clearly suited the council to do so (probably because it got them out of dealing with SISU).

It seems, from what you're saying, that Eastwood thinks it's a given that they will be allowed to move their academy up here in 2016. Personally, I don't think it's anywhere near as certain as that. As well as Worcester, Leicester and Northampton might have something to say about that, and they're big hitters too with the RFU. It would also give a green light to full-blown franchising in rugby, at the moment the RFU can hide behind the fig-leaf of this (and others) being stadium moves, rather than club relocations.

Regardless of the academy status, I also still don't see this as good for CRFC. I can see how Wasps might help out on the player side, and how that might even help CRFC get into the second tier of rugby, rather than the third where they are now. But I think that's where we will then be doomed to remain at best, because Wasps won't want the home town club competing on an even footing for fans, players, and most significantly, sponsors. For me, as a CRFC fan, that's not acceptable - and again I don't want this move validated as being to the benefit of CRFC when clearly it isn't.

Anyway, as I say - appreciate the spirit in which you've offered your thoughts, but clearly we differ.