Victory for the City of Coventry yesterday

[Nick]

You personally may not give a shit, however the person who gets a job at tescos because of it will. They will then spend their money in the city. They may spend it doing up their house and employ a local tradesman and so on so on

You or me can just look at it as this is shit for CCFC. The council have to look wider than that.

Ah so they are going to go out and employ extra staff to cope with Wasps fans taking over.

 

[Nick]

Nick when those business do well they employ Coventry people.

I wish they were in dependant shops like in Fargo but that is an entirely different issue.

Like it or not they employ people from the city who will spend some if their wages in the city

So how many Coventry people will be getting jobs at Tesco because of Wasps? I mean like extra to what they would have been anyway?

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes because Tescos, Next and M&S are well well known Coventry Businesses. I am all for LOCAL businesses making money, I hope that some pubs to pick up with it before games, I hope local taxi companies etc.

Justfying it being good for the people of Coventry because loads of people will go into Next is a bit silly isn't it? Why on earth would that matter to the average Joe Coventry person that this is benefiting so much?

Yeah the head bloke at ACL's job was nice and secure...

That sounds like it was straight from the Councillor's text book, with all of the hopes and estimations.

It pointless having a pop about hopes and estimations unless you are talking to Nostradamus. How the hell can someone give you exact figures for a future venture. That has to be given in the future. However you must agree Wasps coming to Coventry bring more money into Coventry than was there before.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

To the OP...you do know that whilst one hedge fund didn't get their hands on the Ricoh, another hedge fund did??

Or have you merely overlooked that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Samo]

People took pride when the Ice hockey team were top of their game.
People will also take pride in wasps in the future.
However yes the pound will have been the prime motivation behind the deal.

Take pride in a London rugby team that has just fucked over its fans and robbed us of a future? Nah, think I'll leave it.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

The best thing this whole debacle has done is weed out those like the OP, no wonder we're in the shitter with fans like this.

 

[Nick]

It pointless having a pop about hopes and estimations unless you are talking to Nostradamus. How the hell can someone give you exact figures for a future venture. That has to be given in the future. However you must agree Wasps coming to Coventry bring more money into Coventry than was there before.

Yes but also trying to justify it by saying more people will spend money in Tescos doesn't really make people think it is amazing.

 

[dongonzalos]

So how many Coventry people will be getting jobs at Tesco because of Wasps? I mean like extra to what they would have been anyway?

3, their names are John Constsdine, Hamesh Dines and Sadar Patel.
Them getting their jobs will contribute an extra 420,000 to the Coventry Economy over 15 years. This is a multiplier effect of following the audit trail of where their earning go once they are spent. For example Sadar will employ local building firm the Kavanaghs on 3rd of April 2015 to build an extension.
The Kavanaghs intend to use the profit from this job on a car from the Nissan Garage near Spon End.
When they do that it gives Paul Jones his sales bonus. He will spend that in Eden on his wifes birthday on May 15th 2015. Helping a local business.

Sorry that I left out the detail before hope with these specifics it is clearer now.

 

[dongonzalos]

Take pride in a London rugby team that has just fucked over its fans and robbed us of a future? Nah, think I'll leave it.

You might leave it but others will, I bet you.

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes but also trying to justify it by saying more people will spend money in Tescos doesn't really make people think it is amazing.

Not amazing just a fact if life whether you like it or not.
The council were getting told the football were off in 4 years out of Coventry.
That will have a negative effect in the economy as I am sure the move to Northampton did. Didn't a business guru type person come out with this.
So with Wasps offering to come in I can't see how the council could have made any other decision

 

[Rusty Trombone]

3, their names are John Constsdine, Hamesh Dines and Sadar Patel.
Them getting their jobs will contribute an extra 420,000 to the Coventry Economy over 15 years. This is a multiplier effect of following the audit trail of where their earning go once they are spent. For example Sadar will employ local building firm the Kavanaghs on 3rd of April 2015 to build an extension.
The Kavanaghs intend to use the profit from this job on a car from the Nissan Garage near Spon End.
When they do that it gives Paul Jones his sales bonus. He will spend that in Eden on his wifes birthday on May 15th 2015. Helping a local business.

Sorry that I left out the detail before hope with these specifics it is clearer now.

You should appear on the next series of BBC1's Would I Lie To You.

 

[dongonzalos]

The best thing this whole debacle has done is weed out those like the OP, no wonder we're in the shitter with fans like this.

If you are referring to the likes of myself.
I would have preferred CCFC to have 50% of the Ricoh.
However that doesn't stop me from understanding why it hasn't happened.

 

[Ashdown]

3, their names are John Constsdine, Hamesh Dines and Sadar Patel.
Them getting their jobs will contribute an extra 420,000 to the Coventry Economy over 15 years. This is a multiplier effect of following the audit trail of where their earning go once they are spent. For example Sadar will employ local building firm the Kavanaghs on 3rd of April 2015 to build an extension.
The Kavanaghs intend to use the profit from this job on a car from the Nissan Garage near Spon End.
When they do that it gives Paul Jones his sales bonus. He will spend that in Eden on his wifes birthday on May 15th 2015. Helping a local business.

Sorry that I left out the detail before hope with these specifics it is clearer now.

I get all this I do, but to actually boost the local economy most of these people have to come from outside of the City or the spend would have probably happened anyway. taking away the supposed economic advantages it's still immoral and wrong and the City council should have consulted more with it's electorate before making such a rash and secretive decision.

 

[Nick]

3, their names are John Constsdine, Hamesh Dines and Sadar Patel.
Them getting their jobs will contribute an extra 420,000 to the Coventry Economy over 15 years. This is a multiplier effect of following the audit trail of where their earning go once they are spent. For example Sadar will employ local building firm the Kavanaghs on 3rd of April 2015 to build an extension.
The Kavanaghs intend to use the profit from this job on a car from the Nissan Garage near Spon End.
When they do that it gives Paul Jones his sales bonus. He will spend that in Eden on his wifes birthday on May 15th 2015. Helping a local business.

Sorry that I left out the detail before hope with these specifics it is clearer now.

So they are being employed just because of Wasps are they? How many will lose jobs if the football club move out because the council weren't too bothered about them?

 

[dongonzalos]

I get all this I do, but to actually boost the local economy most of these people have to come from outside of the City or the spend would have probably happened anyway. taking away the supposed economic advantages it's still immoral and wrong and the City council should have consulted more with it's electorate before making such a rash and secretive decision.

I agree a rugby club should not be moved from its home town.
However I think that is the RFC's fault that they allowed it to happen.
I agree there was no consultation which I don't really understand why and I don't think that has been explained.
Did they just say due to commercial confidentiality?

 

[dongonzalos]

So they are being employed just because of Wasps are they? How many will lose jobs if the football club move out because the council weren't too bothered about them?

Business leaders have warned the impact of the Sky Blues leaving the city would be devastating for the local economy.

Ian O’Donnell, Warwickshire and Coventry chairman for the Federation of Small Businesses, said: “Small firms and local shops in Coventry will definitely feel the impact, and possibly face closure, if Coventry City Football Club moves to Northampton. Businesses, which are already feeling financial pressure, rely on the football club to generate footfall. It is essential that all is done to keep the club in the city, which in turn will help save businesses in the surrounding area from closure.

“We must remember that small firms re-invest 63p in each £1 back into the local economy. They aren’t just part of the local community, they are the local community. If business, shops and pubs have to close as a result of City’s move, communities will not only feel the loss of the club, they will also be impacted by fewer small businesses providing services for local people.”

The above will happen if the football club do as promised and move out of Coventry.

One business said it would wipe out 20,000 of their profits overnight and they would need to make redundancies.

 

[Nick]

Business leaders have warned the impact of the Sky Blues leaving the city would be devastating for the local economy.

Ian O’Donnell, Warwickshire and Coventry chairman for the Federation of Small Businesses, said: “Small firms and local shops in Coventry will definitely feel the impact, and possibly face closure, if Coventry City Football Club moves to Northampton. Businesses, which are already feeling financial pressure, rely on the football club to generate footfall. It is essential that all is done to keep the club in the city, which in turn will help save businesses in the surrounding area from closure.

“We must remember that small firms re-invest 63p in each £1 back into the local economy. They aren’t just part of the local community, they are the local community. If business, shops and pubs have to close as a result of City’s move, communities will not only feel the loss of the club, they will also be impacted by fewer small businesses providing services for local people.”

The above will happen if the football club do as promised and move out of Coventry.

One business said it would wipe out 20,000 of their profits overnight and they would need to make redundancies.

So surely the council should have been trying to keep the football club a bit harder? It is all well and good getting hard about how much it is going to help Coventry wasps being here, but what consequences does that bring with it?

Or will it be a case of the council are amazing because they helped the economy by bringing Wasps in, but the nasty football club moved out and made it even worse, it is all the football club's fault. Boo them?

 

[theferret]

Not amazing just a fact if life whether you like it or not.
The council were getting told the football were off in 4 years out of Coventry.
That will have a negative effect in the economy as I am sure the move to Northampton did. Didn't a business guru type person come out with this.
So with Wasps offering to come in I can't see how the council could have made any other decision

It's funny how some people don't believe a word SISU say, unless of course it suits their argument, in which case SISU were definitely going to take the club out of the city in 4 years. Guff. As long as the possibility of ownership was there, we would have stayed at the Ricoh, and who knows if somebody might have stepped in to take over. Not going to happen now though is it?

As for the lame economic arguments - I think you'll find having a PL football is far more economically beneficial than having top flight Rugby side - by a huge distance. Ask the local council's in Southampton, Swansea and Leicester about that. Question, is our club's prospects of reaching the PL better or worse now that we've offloaded the Ricoh on the cheap?

 

[ajsccfc]

Taking the club out of the city

That's bad.

The city has also gained a premiership rugby team.

That's good?

 

[ajsccfc]

The toppings contain potassium benzoate

That's bad.

 

[duffer]

Victory?!

Incredible.

All we've had from Wasps so far is hot air and free tickets. Rugby is such a huge draw in the city that they've had to give away thousands of tickets so as to make attendances a bit less embarassing. Thousands! And this is going to somehow make Coventry's economy thrive is it?

In the meantime, at best CCFC will bump along at it's current level at the Ricoh - or even worse be forced to do what most saw as an empty threat and build a new stadium outside the city. Or, just maybe, they'll go bust completely. How good are any of those options for the City's economy?

And if Wasps go pop, of which there is every chance, the Council are still on the hook for whole mortgage. And CCC have already written off £1 million pounds off that mortgage.

Let's be clear on this, bringing Wasps in has already cost the council one million pounds - money that a few months ago the council was telling everyone that ACL could repay with or without CCFC at the Ricoh. Were the council lying then, when they said ACL was profitable and sustainable, or are they lying now, when suddenly they claim it isn't?

Sure, the Council have got rid of having to deal with SISU. But victory? If this is what anyone here classes as the city winning, I really wouldn't want to see what a defeat looked like.

 

[CovFan]

3, their names are John Constsdine, Hamesh Dines and Sadar Patel.
Them getting their jobs will contribute an extra 420,000 to the Coventry Economy over 15 years. This is a multiplier effect of following the audit trail of where their earning go once they are spent. For example Sadar will employ local building firm the Kavanaghs on 3rd of April 2015 to build an extension.
The Kavanaghs intend to use the profit from this job on a car from the Nissan Garage near Spon End.
When they do that it gives Paul Jones his sales bonus. He will spend that in Eden on his wifes birthday on May 15th 2015. Helping a local business.

Sorry that I left out the detail before hope with these specifics it is clearer now.

How about people who work near the Rugby Ground? (You know, the thing that was built for a Rugby team representing the city of Coventry)

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Victory?!

Incredible.

All we've had from Wasps so far is hot air and free tickets. Rugby is such a huge draw in the city that they've had to give away thousands of tickets so as to make attendances a bit less embarassing. Thousands! And this is going to somehow make Coventry's economy thrive is it?

In the meantime, at best CCFC will bump along at it's current level at the Ricoh - or even worse be forced to do what most saw as an empty threat and build a new stadium outside the city. Or, just maybe, they'll go bust completely. How good are any of those options for the City's economy?

And if Wasps go pop, of which there is every chance, the Council are still on the hook for whole mortgage. And CCC have already written off £1 million pounds off that mortgage.

Let's be clear on this, bringing Wasps in has already cost the council one million pounds - money that a few months ago the council was telling everyone that ACL could repay with or without CCFC at the Ricoh. Were the council lying then, when they said ACL was profitable and sustainable, or are they lying now, when suddenly they claim it isn't?

Sure, the Council have got rid of having to deal with SISU. But victory? If this is what anyone here classes as the city winning, I really wouldn't want to see what a defeat looked like.

From a Cov economy point of view it makes no difference whether the tickets are given away, the people will come and spend money.

Have the Council written £1m off? What was that deal?

If Wasps go pop then the lease will go back to the Council and can be sold again.

 

[chiefdave]

Let's be clear on this, bringing Wasps in has already cost the council one million pounds - money that a few months ago the council was telling everyone that ACL could repay with or without CCFC at the Ricoh. Were the council lying then, when they said ACL was profitable and sustainable, or are they lying now, when suddenly they claim it isn't?

That's the point the council, and Higgs for that matter, need to be pushed on. They have insisted that ACL was a viable business without CCFC, the JR court case even seemed to support their statements, but now they are selling at a loss. Nobody sells a profit making business on the up with huge potential for less than they have invested in it, lets hear their explanation.

 

[dongonzalos]

So surely the council should have been trying to keep the football club a bit harder? It is all well and good getting hard about how much it is going to help Coventry wasps being here, but what consequences does that bring with it?

Or will it be a case of the council are amazing because they helped the economy by bringing Wasps in, but the nasty football club moved out and made it even worse, it is all the football club's fault. Boo them?

Last paragraph sums it up unfortunately.

A high court judge found that the 'Nasty football club' your words were trying to devalue ACL.

They were repeatedly asked to bid for ACL. They said Freehold or nothing.

They moved out whilst building a new stadium.

They were given a deadline by which to come in with a sensible offer otherwise the council would seek others. They ignored the deadline. Saying they were building a new stadium outside Coventry.

They came back temporarily saying they were building a new stadium outside of Coventry.

They bid for half of ACL whilst saying they were still going to build a new stadium even though they are bidding?

So yes I would say the football club choose its own destiny.

What do you think the council should have done.

What if they said to wasps no.

Then in 4 years SISU shock everyone and build a new stadium outside of Coventry.

You can bet your bottom dollar some business expert will access the decision to say no to wasps cost the Coventry economy so many million pounds.

Then certain people on here will be hopping up and down calling the council idiots because SISU said all along they were moving out.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Once again mass hysteria is taking over on here. Would any of the contributors to this thread like to bet their mortgage on the fact that SISU would deliver anything other than the current dross we have to watch on a weekly basis if they had a 50% share of ACL? Or would you think that most of the income generated would be hived off to ARVO in the form of higher rent and management fees. FFS we are where we are, this is a direct result of SISU and their actions, they have not been able to buy the share because of their continued litigations and under hand treatment of a charity. If their intentions were the same as the Hedge fund that owns Wasps then their would be no need to slag any one off now as they would own the lot. Bunch of con artists that are still obviously taking some of our fans in. And here's the crux of it, you all need to wake up and smell the bull shit cause it aint getting any better until their gone!

 

[chiefdave]

A high court judge found that the 'Nasty football club' your words were trying to devalue ACL.

Looks like their plan worked. The flaw in the plan was that SISU weren't the only potential buyers. The potential for that was flagged up often on this forum but didn't seem to be considered by SISU.

Their plan has backfired spectacularly, now we'll have to see if they have a plan B. Of course if they don't they just write off other peoples money and we're left to deal with the consequences for years to come.

 

[dongonzalos]

It's funny how some people don't believe a word SISU say, unless of course it suits their argument, in which case SISU were definitely going to take the club out of the city in 4 years. Guff. As long as the possibility of ownership was there, we would have stayed at the Ricoh, and who knows if somebody might have stepped in to take over. Not going to happen now though is it?

As for the lame economic arguments - I think you'll find having a PL football is far more economically beneficial than having top flight Rugby side - by a huge distance. Ask the local council's in Southampton, Swansea and Leicester about that. Question, is our club's prospects of reaching the PL better or worse now that we've offloaded the Ricoh on the cheap?

I don't believe we will build a new stadium.
However if all goes belly up for the council could they really turn round and say' well we didn't believe them' get in the real world.

Yep I agree a premiership football club has more pull, so does a champions league one.
By not buying ACL the clubs prospects are definitely worse.
I still think someone would take over us, yes. However I think it would only come if SISU were to walk away.

 

[chiefdave]

Would any of the contributors to this thread like to bet their mortgage on the fact that SISU would deliver anything other than the current dross we have to watch on a weekly basis if they had a 50% share of ACL?

Their best chance of a return for SISU is to have at least part of the stadium to sell with the club. If they got that and made a small investment in the team to enable promotion back to the championship I think you would have interested buyers as you'd have a club on the up with a stake in a PL quality stadium. Certainly a better chance of selling that than a L1 team with no stadium ownership and even a long term lease who seem more likely to be relegated than promoted.

 

[duffer]

From a Cov economy point of view it makes no difference whether the tickets are given away, the people will come and spend money.

Have the Council written £1m off? What was that deal?

If Wasps go pop then the lease will go back to the Council and can be sold again.

The million write off was stated in CET amongst other places when the Wasps deal first went public.

From a Cov economy point of view, if the tickets are being given away it points to both the likely success of the commercial operation, and also puts the lie to the fact that rugby is a huge draw. How long do you think giving thousands of tickets away is sustainable for Wasps?

And Wasps being a big draw was a key part of the Council argument - you know the £6m to the local economy from the 28,000 point that Lucas banged on about. (Neither that attendance nor the revenue claimed from it stands up to scrutiny, sadly).

The lease may well revert if Wasps go pop. Who do you think is going to buy it, and do you think they'll be willing to take on the full value that Wasps paid? By then the club really may have moved on, or gone under.

The taxpayer is still at risk, and it's shown everything else the council has said about ACL and the profitability surronding the Ricoh to be a lie. Why would anyone be daft enough to believe they're suddenly telling the truth now?

And again - if this forces CCFC out or under, then clearly there's a significant loss to the local economy. I note you negelected to address that point. I'd say it's time to quit pretending this is a great deal for the city, and accept that it was about getting away from SISU. Understandable, but also hypocritical and short-sighted, imho. Certainly not a 'victory'.

 

[Samo]

Once again mass hysteria is taking over on here. Would any of the contributors to this thread like to bet their mortgage on the fact that SISU would deliver anything other than the current dross we have to watch on a weekly basis if they had a 50% share of ACL? Or would you think that most of the income generated would be hived off to ARVO in the form of higher rent and management fees. FFS we are where we are, this is a direct result of SISU and their actions, they have not been able to buy the share because of their continued litigations and under hand treatment of a charity. If their intentions were the same as the Hedge fund that owns Wasps then their would be no need to slag any one off now as they would own the lot. Bunch of con artists that are still obviously taking some of our fans in. And here's the crux of it, you all need to wake up and smell the bull shit cause it aint getting any better until their gone!

Yeh they've made a fortune out of our club right? With all that extra revenue to come they would have been back in the black around the time Wasps lease runs out.

 

[dongonzalos]

Looks like their plan worked. The flaw in the plan was that SISU weren't the only potential buyers. The potential for that was flagged up often on this forum but didn't seem to be considered by SISU.

Their plan has backfired spectacularly, now we'll have to see if they have a plan B. Of course if they don't they just write off other peoples money and we're left to deal with the consequences for years to come.

I agree.
It was flagged up and derided by a few vocal posters unfortunately.
Like with the football club there is only SISU apparently

 

[dongonzalos]

The million write off was stated in CET amongst other places when the Wasps deal first went public.

From a Cov economy point of view, if the tickets are being given away it points to both the likely success of the commercial operation, and also puts the lie to the fact that rugby is a huge draw. How long do you think giving thousands of tickets away is sustainable for Wasps?

And Wasps being a big draw was a key part of the Council argument - you know the £6m to the local economy from the 28,000 point that Lucas banged on about. (Neither that attendance nor the revenue claimed from it stands up to scrutiny, sadly).

The lease may well revert if Wasps go pop. Who do you think is going to buy it, and do you think they'll be willing to take on the full value that Wasps paid? By then the club really may have moved on, or gone under.

The taxpayer is still at risk, and it's shown everything else the council has said about ACL and the profitability surronding the Ricoh to be a lie. Why would anyone be daft enough to believe they're suddenly telling the truth now?

And again - if this forces CCFC out or under, then clearly there's a significant loss to the local economy. I note you negelected to address that point. I'd say it's time to quit pretending this is a great deal for the city, and accept that it was about getting away from SISU. Understandable, but also hypocritical and short-sighted, imho. Certainly not a 'victory'.

The point for the council is SISU were not looking like they would do the deal.
They repeatedly stated they are moving out.
Even if wasps only draw in 5000 every second week. That's 5000 more than nobody.

 

[duffer]

Once again mass hysteria is taking over on here. Would any of the contributors to this thread like to bet their mortgage on the fact that SISU would deliver anything other than the current dross we have to watch on a weekly basis if they had a 50% share of ACL? Or would you think that most of the income generated would be hived off to ARVO in the form of higher rent and management fees. FFS we are where we are, this is a direct result of SISU and their actions, they have not been able to buy the share because of their continued litigations and under hand treatment of a charity. If their intentions were the same as the Hedge fund that owns Wasps then their would be no need to slag any one off now as they would own the lot. Bunch of con artists that are still obviously taking some of our fans in. And here's the crux of it, you all need to wake up and smell the bull shit cause it aint getting any better until their gone!

I'd agree with most of this. But it seems people haven't woken up to the fact that even when SISU have gone, and one day they will, ACL and all of the income streams therein will still belong to Wasps. Where does that leave CCFC?

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Their best chance of a return for SISU is to have at least part of the stadium to sell with the club. If they got that and made a small investment in the team to enable promotion back to the championship I think you would have interested buyers as you'd have a club on the up with a stake in a PL quality stadium. Certainly a better chance of selling that than a L1 team with no stadium ownership and even a long term lease who seem more likely to be relegated than promoted.

I agree that would have been the best strategy for SISU to extricate themselves from this mess they have created, but that said they tried to do everything on the cheap and its bit them on the arse. What I was saying was if they did own the 50% share it would not have necessarily put the money into the product on the pitch, they don't have a track record in the recent years for investing in the club.