hell will freeze over... (26 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

BE careful. Apparently Ann will come and laugh in your face. Not a nice thought.

Bloody hell, I take you to be intelligent but don't let the excitement cloud your judgement. One game will make it all a huge success...I have heard it all now.

Lets see what the numbers are over the next few seasons before we get all confident about it shall we....I mean as you run a business I don't think you told all and sundry that you were a profit making success after your first sale/invoice did you?

 

---

[Kingokings204]

Tim Fisher doesn’t seem to think it’s been sold for a snip. Here’s what David Conn’s Guardian article (23/12/14) says … “City’s chief executive, Tim Fisher, insists they do not regret failing to buy the Ricoh, saying they could not agree to taking it on, as Wasps have done, not only for £5.4m but with the council’s £14m loan on the stadium still to pay.”

How does that fit in with the notion that CCC have given the stadium away? The idea, held by many on here, that SISU would have gladly have matched the Wasps deal if only they’d had the chance seems like pure fantasy to me.

In a nutshell, SISU have thought (or at least tried to argue) all along that ACL is worthless, whereas Wasps think it’s a money-spinner. Time will tell, but Wasps have already made far more imaginative use of the Ricoh than we ever did, and their investment looks like a good one to me. There is now top class sport in Coventry, and some of their games will be massive, bringing in international visitors and generating hotel and restaurant business. How the Council could have achieved a better outcome for the city I don’t know - it’s just sad for CCFC fans that we cut ourselves out of the picture.

Well £5.4 million = £2.7 million each (CCC and Higgs). Joy offered Higgs £2 million for their share did she not? Everyone said that wasn't enough (me included). So why does everyone think 0.7 million more from a Wycombe based rugby club is acceptable (I certainly don't)? Was all the pr costs, and losses worth the 0.7 million?

Totally different circumstances. still doesn't make it acceptable to sell to wasps as I'm a huge ccfc fan what it should be for but I don't agree with your post. Different years different circumstances.

 

[lewys33]

Totally different circumstances. still doesn't make it acceptable to sell to wasps as I'm a huge ccfc fan what it should be for but I don't agree with your post. Different years different circumstances.

Why don't you agree? I know it is a fairly simple layout, but essentially that is what it is, and they haven't got much better from Wasps as they could have got from CCFC.

 

[skybluetony176]

My mate?! Jeez, Tony. As for the taxpayer thing, take it up with Grendel, he mentioned it not me. I was just pointing out the..erm..inconsistencies around these parts.

Thats my point.

I've never said the Ricoh is worthless so i also believe that wasps got it at a snip. Whereas the bloke who isn't your mate has said its worthless but somehow wasps paying money for something worthless equals a snip, which is inconsistent.

I've always wanted the tax payer to get a good deal, hence i thought the wasps got it at a snip. Wheras the bloke who isn't your mate has gone from "i dont give a shit about the tax payer" to "its all about the tax payer having a good deal". Again, inconsistent.

My position hasn't changed.

 

[skybluetony176]

Now, this I'm with you on. Sickening cronyism. Like the leader of Rugby Borough Council. Jacks in his job as a plumber to become an estate agent (no conflict of interest with planning there, eh?), and had now been given an £80K a year job leading the Local Enterprise Partnership. On what criteria exactly?!?

If you're on about Tony Gillias he's an electrician and still is, i saw him last week in his work clothes driving his van. Its his brother Chris who's the retired electrician into property and my understanding is they dont talk and haven't for years although this last bit is local gossip and may be no more.

You may be talking about someone else ofcourse.

 

[Kingokings204]

Why don't you agree? I know it is a fairly simple layout, but essentially that is what it is, and they haven't got much better from Wasps as they could have got from CCFC.

I don't agree because when sisu offered or joy offered 2m the company was worth 19.4 million pound so a 50% stake was almost 10m and when wasps took over the company was worth around 7m both figures taken around the figures given during the JR.

So you can see the difference surely?

Now I for one second don't think ccfc were paying fair rent as 100k a month is extortionate but ccfc signed it whether it be sisu or not and they went into it "eyes wide open" when they took over in 2007-8. They have no one to blame but themsleves and to see some on here defend or look for other to blame is everything that's wrong with the football club. There is no togetherness and fans are split and this is from top to bottom and the football club is rotten from top to bottom and whilst this is the case ccfc will slip down the leagues and become an oblivion. Breaks my heart truth be told.

 

[Moff]

If you're on about Tony Gillias he's an electrician and still is, i saw him last week in his work clothes driving his van. Its his brother Chris who's the retired electrician into property and my understanding is they dont talk and haven't for years although this last bit is local gossip and may be no more.

You may be talking about someone else ofcourse.

No its Craig Humphreys he was on about. He has been mentioned in Private Eye as many times as SISU!

http://www.rugby.gov.uk/news/article/1143/rugby_borough_council_leader_to_stand_down

 

[lordsummerisle]

I don't agree because when sisu offered or joy offered 2m the company was worth 19.4 million pound so a 50% stake was almost 10m and when wasps took over the company was worth around 7m both figures taken around the figures given during the JR.

So you can see the difference surely?

Now I for one second don't think ccfc were paying fair rent as 100k a month is extortionate but ccfc signed it whether it be sisu or not and they went into it "eyes wide open" when they took over in 2007-8. They have no one to blame but themsleves and to see some on here defend or look for other to blame is everything that's wrong with the football club. There is no togetherness and fans are split and this is from top to bottom and the football club is rotten from top to bottom and whilst this is the case ccfc will slip down the leagues and become an oblivion. Breaks my heart truth be told.

ACL at that time was worth nothing like £19.4 million pound.

In fact the council thought that the offer that Sisu made was in excess of the worth of the share that Higgs held.

 

[Kingokings204]

Yes it was with ccfc there paying 1.2m a year in year the company was worth 19.4m.

With ccfc not there paying no rent the company was worth 6.4m.

Something like that anyway.

 

[Ian1779]

Loss making? Now? I don't think so. Watch what happens with the Leinster game and Lucas will have every right to laugh in your face. You may not like it, but it's true

I don't think a few games at the Ricoh are going to turn around a business losing £3m a year on it's own.

That said, I'm looking forward to the tens of millions of pounds to flood into the local community that Ann said about for the game .

Or has she slightly distorted the true figure.... not like she doesn't have previous form.

 

[martcov]

Oh so when it suits it was a potential white elephant, but when Grendel said it was everyone slagged him off saying it cant have been as wasps wanted it. Jeez the hypocricy stinks!

I was referring to Grendel's argument ( past argument that it was a white elephant ), so if anyone is being hypocritical it is Grendel who said that it was a white elephant and now it is being sold too cheaply. I think that CCC didn't have any other option but to off load it to wasps. Speculating on which way SISU would jump, was not a viable option. Time will tell.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Yes it was with ccfc there paying 1.2m a year in year the company was worth 19.4m.

With ccfc not there paying no rent the company was worth 6.4m.

Something like that anyway.

Therefore an offer from the club for ACL taking into account the "added value" of the club would be fair.

 

[martcov]

I don't think a few games at the Ricoh are going to turn around a business losing £3m a year on it's own.

That said, I'm looking forward to the tens of millions of pounds to flood into the local community that Ann said about for the game .

Or has she slightly distorted the true figure.... not like she doesn't have previous form.

Wasps seem to think they will turn their business round and I would bet that with the other revenues which they now control, there will not be a trading loss in the next twelve months. That is exempt from extraordinary costs caused by the takeover.

I agree that figures relating to monies being brought into the community seem to go up when it suits. Having said that, there will definitely be a considerable amount spent in Coventry as a result of the extra travelling fans coming in. Pity that they are not coming to see a premier league CCFC.

 

[martcov]

If it was The Land of Milfs and Honeys Arena it would be packed out every night.

Could we not merge the land of milk and honey stadium with the pie in the sky stadium? Sounds quite tasty.

 

[Kingokings204]

Sorry LS having problems with my phone to reply.

Yes I agree. I know what you're saying about the 0.7m difference as it turned out but 2012 and 2014 were totally different years. 2012 we were still in the championship and 2014 we are struggling in league 1.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Sorry LS having problems with my phone to reply.

Yes I agree. I know what you're saying about the 0.7m difference as it turned out but 2012 and 2014 were totally different years. 2012 we were still in the championship and 2014 we are struggling in league 1.

Wouldn't you think though that if the club were expected to pay an amount based on that valuation then surely ACL should on the sale to Wasps had a valuation to show worth of both CCFC and Wasps being at the stadium?

Would surely make the sale price to Wasps look even more undervalued than it already is.

 

[tisza]

Well £5.4 million = £2.7 million each (CCC and Higgs). Joy offered Higgs £2 million for their share did she not? Everyone said that wasn't enough (me included). So why does everyone think 0.7 million more from a Wycombe based rugby club is acceptable (I certainly don't)? Was all the pr costs, and losses worth the 0.7 million?

but Sisu weren't prepared to take on the full loan either. that was made clear in the jr and later by fisher

 

[tisza]

ACL at that time was worth nothing like £19.4 million pound.

In fact the council thought that the offer that Sisu made was in excess of the worth of the share that Higgs held.

19.4 m didn't refer to the value of ACL. i think it was the total value of the loan. seriously a copy of the jr needs putting on this site for ease of reference.

 

[martcov]

Wouldn't you think though that if the club were expected to pay an amount based on that valuation then surely ACL should on the sale to Wasps had a valuation to show worth of both CCFC and Wasps being at the stadium?

Would surely make the sale price to Wasps look even more undervalued than it already is.

How can you have a valuation on CCFC playing there? They only have a year and half to go ( plus an option which they are not obliged to take ). I would think that the agreed price was calculated with Wasps playing as it was Wasps who agreed the price with ACL.

 

[lordsummerisle]

19.4 m didn't refer to the value of ACL. i think it was the total value of the loan. seriously a copy of the jr needs putting on this site for ease of reference.

I didn't say it was the value of ACL.

 

[lewys33]

but Sisu weren't prepared to take on the full loan either. that was made clear in the jr and later by fisher

So they didn't say they could get a better deal on the re-structure of the loan?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Bloody hell, I take you to be intelligent but don't let the excitement cloud your judgement. One game will make it all a huge success...I have heard it all now.

Lets see what the numbers are over the next few seasons before we get all confident about it shall we....I mean as you run a business I don't think you told all and sundry that you were a profit making success after your first sale/invoice did you?

No. I'm very conservative in business. The losses were based on 9K gates or less in Wycombe. Significant sponsorship, like the Land Rover deal will make a hole in that loss. I was told on the quiet that they don't think they considerably need to increase gates over the Wycombe gates to break even given additional revenues available at the Ricoh. So, these bigger gates are simply a bonus.

That stated, they are doing it well. Have you seen the agenda for the Leinster game? Those people will go back. Not all, but many will. Especially now they've turned around their season a bit on the pitch.

Every bit of me tells me they'll make a huge success of it. Again, no matter how much I dislike the concept. You may think I'm wrong; but I tell you what, I'm a damn sight closer to how reality will pan out th an dismissing them as a '£3 million loss making business'

 

[hill83]

No. I'm very conservative in business. The losses were based on 9K gates or less in Wycombe. Significant sponsorship, like the Land Rover deal will make a hole in that loss. I was told on the quiet that they don't think they considerably need to increase gates over the Wycombe gates to break even given additional revenues available at the Ricoh. So, these bigger gates are simply a bonus.

That stated, they are doing it well. Have you seen the agenda for the Leinster game? Those people will go back. Not all, but many will. Especially now they've turned around their season a bit on the pitch.

Every bit of me tells me they'll make a huge success of it. Again, no matter how much I dislike the concept. You may think I'm wrong; but I tell you what, I'm a damn sight closer to how reality will pan out th an dismissing them as a '£3 million loss making business'

Great sell. I'm in.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No its Craig Humphreys he was on about. He has been mentioned in Private Eye as many times as SISU!

http://www.rugby.gov.uk/news/article/1143/rugby_borough_council_leader_to_stand_down

Correct, Moff - sorry, back in the office now so better able to offer other links to his auspicious career...

http://rugbygreenparty.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/private-eye-awards-rugby-borough.html

http://www.rugbyadvertiser.co.uk/ne...y-following-articles-in-private-eye-1-3982761

http://www.therugbyobserver.co.uk/2...ole-after-jobs-for-the-boys-claim-114410.html

 

[tisza]

So they didn't say they could get a better deal on the re-structure of the loan?

they believed they could but as the jr shows it was unrealistic.

 

[Thenose]

Given how quickly the much discussed brittle Coventry fan disappeared after the Ricoh return, Wasps are doing well. Again, I wouldn't go, but what they are doing for the Leinster game is brilliant - extra beer and catering, live music to get people there early, other games streamed to thy big screens, etc. It will be brilliant. You have the Six Nations, with Wasps players featuring, then the fervour surrounding the World Cup to help boost season ticket sales. Look at what Eastwood did at the RFU - he really is no mug.

Taking the line that Wasps will be, or are a failure will lead you to disappointment in my view. Doesn't mean I'm pro-Wasps; just giving you my opinion as to the practical situation

Its astonishing the contrast between how the 2 companies are promoting themselves. 1 sits an sulks and threatens to sue everyone into bankruptcy, the other is genuinely working hard at putting on entertaining events.

How much effort do SISU/CCFC put into marketing and event management?

 

[tisza]

So they didn't say they could get a better deal on the re-structure of the loan?

Don't know what they said but talk is cheap. Joy kept insisting the bank would reduce their demands and was "stunned" when they didn't see it her way.

 

[torchomatic]

Yes, some things on here are astonishing too.

Its astonishing the contrast between how the 2 companies are promoting themselves. 1 sits an sulks and threatens to sue everyone into bankruptcy, the other is genuinely working hard at putting on entertaining events.

How much effort do SISU/CCFC put into marketing and event management?

 

[Hobo]

Yes, some things on here are astonishing too.

Yes, how some people still stick up for SISU and try and blame everyone else for ganging up on them.

 

[Samo]

Yes, how some people still stick up for SISU and try and blame everyone else for ganging up on them.

Oh give it a rest Hobo. Who sticks up for SISU? Name one?

 

[torchomatic]

Oh, do tell me who they are. Apart from RFC.

Yes, how some people still stick up for SISU and try and blame everyone else for ganging up on them.

 

[The Gentleman]

Oh, do tell me who they are. Apart from RFC.

You've just done his job for him. You can't say name one then exclude one to try and help your argument.

 

[Nick]

You've just done his job for him. You can't say name one then exclude one to try and help your argument.

Surely there are so many it is easy to name them?

 

[Astute]

Oh give it a rest Hobo. Who sticks up for SISU? Name one?

RFC, Les Reid......even our ex MEP........

Someone doesn't have to shout out to give SISU their support. I wouldn't say that people on here support SISU or what they are doing. But some seem to think it is OK to call people CCC supporters but shout out loudly that nobody supports or makes excuses for SISU. Anyone that supports either CCC or SISU must be fookin mad.

 

[Calista]

Its funny how people believe what Fisher says is true when it backs up their argument, but when it doesn't he is lying.

I have never called Tim Fisher a liar, so I don’t really get your response. I made a straightforward reference to a newspaper article which has a genuine bearing on this debate. Fisher clearly said they wouldn't have done the Wasps deal, and I can see no reason whatsoever for doubting it – can you?