Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (27 Viewers)

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torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't bother. He's wrong. You, MMM and the others are right. Always have been, always will be.

skybluetony176 said:
What did he say? I couldn't be arsed to read all of that ;)
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Samo

Samo

Well-Known Member
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Some of that is true. But your ongoing focus on anyone other that SISU as holding culpability redefines 'delusional'. Still, as someone who scoffed at the idea of a rugby club coming to the Ricoh, lauded Fisher and Waggot's track record at Charlton, awaited the 'smoking gun' from the Judicial Review like a kid on Christmas Eve, anointed SISU as 'the only show in town', and claimed the Judical review had been lost on purpose, masterminded by Fisher 'the best CEO we've had in years'; I'm guessing you're going to be the most shouty in pointing the finger elsewhere.

To save your fingers posting in return; yes, I thought Thorn was the next Bill Shankley, I'm actually Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen's Dad, and I love Wasps being in town. Oh, and Ann Lucas is coming for tea, and we're going to watch a video of all of CCFC's losses this season and piss ourselves, and perhaps even have sex. Twice
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Fuck Ann Lucas? That I do agree with.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
And I think history has shown and will show that CCC are just as much to blame for our undoing. But, as someone who is 100% correct on everything, that won't make any difference to you. You'll still come out with a "but, but, but" statement every time someone dares to criticise your favourite public body.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
No. History has shown he's wrong. He doesn't need me to judge him
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S

shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
The WASPS deal went through so smoothly as both sides were desperate to do the deal WASPS got a bargain and CCC desperate to get away from ever having to negotiate with SISU ever again.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
QUite amusing sarcasm there, but you couldn't resist inserting one truth.

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
To save your fingers posting in return; yes, I thought Thorn was the next Bill Shankley, I'm actually Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen's Dad, and I love Wasps being in town. Oh, and Ann Lucas is coming for tea, and we're going to watch a video of all of CCFC's losses this season and piss ourselves, and perhaps even have sex. Twice
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torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Yeah, what's 131 years of history compared to the alternative?

shy_tall_knight said:
The WASPS deal went through so smoothly as both sides were desperate to do the deal WASPS got a bargain and CCC desperate to get away from ever having to negotiate with SISU ever again.
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S

shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
I agree Torch but the fact that it seems to have had a unanimous voted by the local councilors can't help but think SISU had pi$$ed them off so much that many were doing this out of spite. However I doubt if the same deal had been offered to WASPS it would have gone through smoothly especially when they thought that they were the only show in town.
 
italiahorse

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Of course the real undoing for you on this thread is the points raised by Chief Dave a vehemently anti sisu poster and far more balanced than you.

Dwindling band? Yes keep getting likes from the intelligenta - Sky Blue Kid, Tony Astute and Italia. Well done you.
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How anal can you get checking peoples likes ?
I will 'like' anybody that posts a sensible post. But don't quote me at infinitum for it.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I think you're right. But as I keep saying SISU won't be here forever, one day they will be gone. But the Wasps decision is forever. 131 years of history down the drain, we're destined to survive rather than thrive now.

shy_tall_knight said:
I agree Torch but the fact that it seems to have had a unanimous voted by the local councilors can't help but think SISU had pi$$ed them off so much that many were doing this out of spite. However I doubt if the same deal had been offered to WASPS it would have gone through smoothly especially when they thought that they were the only show in town.
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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
italiahorse said:
How anal can you get checking peoples likes ?
I will 'like' anybody that posts a sensible post. But don't quote me at infinitum for it.
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I was mocking MMM and his "likes" comment

Lol
 
James Smith

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Godiva said:
I think it was listed in SBS&L's accounts.
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Yeah I just checked and it was SBS&L not Otium, sorry for any confusion. I was posting from the train into work (trying not to fall over) and couldn't check easily.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
And I think history has shown and will show that CCC are just as much to blame for our undoing. But, as someone who is 100% correct on everything, that won't make any difference to you. You'll still come out with a "but, but, but" statement every time someone dares to criticise your favourite public body.
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Out of interest what would you be saying if CCC had never got involved in the Ricoh project in the first place and left the club to sort out its own mess with HR and Arena 2000? Because surely that is the only alternative scenario to what has actually happened?
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
If we are "If'ing" then I would suggest we stayed at HR so we wouldn't have had to have anything to do with the Council. Or SISU.

skybluetony176 said:
Out of interest what would you be saying if CCC had never got involved in the Ricoh project in the first place and left the club to sort out its own mess with HR and Arena 2000? Because surely that is the only alternative scenario to what has actually happened?
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torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
I don't know. This is a "what if" game, isn't it? We should have.
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Not really. IIRC when CCC bailed out what was Arena 2000 we were facing being homeless, in the real sense, not the TF sense.

If I'm right on that score what would you have said if CCC hadn't bailed the project out and we really found ourselves homeless?
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Not really. IIRC when CCC bailed out what was Arena 2000 we were facing being homeless, in the real sense, not the TF sense.

If I'm right on that score what would you have said if CCC hadn't bailed the project out and we really found ourselves homeless?
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Didn't we still have an option to buy back HR?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
No that is not what I think at all. What I do think is that SISU are only here temporarily while the club are, hopefully, here permanently. I think it is the responsibility of the local council to act in the best interests of organisations who have been part of the community for over 100 years. I certainly think they should be more concerned about them than rugby clubs from London. No matter how bad SISU have been as owners what happens when they leave? Normally new owners bring some hope of things changing for the better, not for us anymore, we are still screwed for decades to come thanks to the actions of CCC.

Now of course you may make the argument that CCC and Higgs had to sell ACL. That may be true but if it is I would argue that it should have been done in an open manner. In order to maximise the return for CCC and Higgs it should have been placed on the market with any interested party able to bid. It most certainly shouldn't be done behind closed doors and hidden behind confidentiality. I wonder, if SISU weren't involved, if opinions might be different. What if CCC sold off the Memorial Park in secret, would that be OK as well? Where do you draw the line?

Then you have to consider that if it was the case that ACL needed to be sold it follows that CCC and Higgs have repeatedly lied about the state of ACL, so again I would take issue with CCC who should, at least in theory, be answerable to the population of the city in a way that the likes of SISU aren't. We know SISU, or any other similar organisation, are in it for what they can get out. Local councils should be approaching things from a very different standpoint.

There is an assumption the souring of the relationship is all down to SISU. That may very well be correct but for all we know the claims about the health of ACL could be the root cause.

Put yourself in Fisher's position. You know the rent is too high, you know ACL are reliant on that high rent, you know ACL are basically sat around twiddling their thumbs rather than trying to grow the business as they have the security of the clubs rent. Those are all things Fisher publically said, and was ridiculed for, when he first joined the club.

What if he went into the first meeting, laid out his stance based on the above and ACL, Higgs, CCC or all of the above said what they said in public. That he was talking rubbish, ACL was in rude health, CCFC was a tiny fraction of its business and it could quite happily survive without them.

How do you negotiate from there with the other side holding a false stance. That's not a bit of a bluff that's outright lying.

How different would things have been if in that first meeting CCC and Higgs had conceded that ACL was in a mess, was reliant on CCFC and weren't maximising the use of the facilities on non-matchdays? Of course we will never know but I can imagine there is a chance things could be very different now.



Firstly CCC should never had agreed to confidentiality, I suspect the confidentiality is of greater benefit to CCC than it is to Wasps.

As I have repeatedly said if ACL needed to be sold, of course meaning CCC and Higgs had been somewhat economical with the truth, it should have been an open and transparent process. ACL should have been placed on the market allowing any interested parties to bid.

Any organisations that potentially could be adversely affected by any bidder winning the process should have been given fair opportunity to air their objections. Its not really a complicated concept.

Christ you can barely order a ream of printer paper in the public sector without having to get multiple quotes to prove you're getting best value for the taxpayer but you can sell off a £120m stadium on the cheap in secret? The whole thing stinks to me, we've already found several areas where CCC, Higgs and Wasps have been less than truthful and that's with everything hidden behind a wall of confidentiality. What else would we find if that wall came down?

I think I'm done with this, we're never going to find out what happened. We're never, in all likelihood, going to own the Ricoh or any other stadium. There seems to be little appetite from the majority of the fan base to do anything but applaud CCC and Higgs for getting one over on SISU irrespective of the damage done to the club. We're now just going round in circles. There are many on here, just look at this thread, who will for some reason defend the council and / or Wasps to the hilt no matter what evidence is presented to them.
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How different it would have been if SISU had been open from the word go and made a big thing about involving the fans - as Wasps have done. What if they had sorted out the rent, or at least have made their position clear at the time? What if they had sorted out the "sloppy" accounts and whereabouts of the golden share, before going to war? What if they had appointed better management earlier - Dulux and Igwe should never had been given any power? What if Joy had known she had a soccer team in her portfolio? The fact is, it should never had got as far as it did and that is largely SISUs mismanagement that caused this absolute disaster. The continuation of the JRs which don't seem to have bought SISU anything apart from costs and an even worse relationship with the Council and the constant "we're building a stadium" only help justify the council's actions. I am not applauding CCC for getting "one over" on SISU ( I don't think that was their aim anyway - it just panned out that way because of the circumstances ), I am more angry at SISU for creating the opening for Wasps, and creating some justification for CCC throwing the Ricoh at them. You can deflect all you want, but if SISU had behaved like decent, trustworthy owners from the beginning, Wasps would not be there now. Or, if they were, the council would be being hammered by the majority of citizens. It is telling that the council is not being held to account, and this shows which way the majority of Coventrians see the situation.
 
Rusty Trombone

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
Didn't we still have an option to buy back HR?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
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It was mentioned on a thread the other day that not only did we have the option to buy back we actually exercised the option. Then we sold it again for more money.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Rusty Trombone said:
It was mentioned on a thread the other day that not only did we have the option to buy back we actually exercised the option. Then we sold it again for more money.
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Yes mcginnity sold it as he did the f and b rights which Mr Gidney kindly offered back for £24 million.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
Didn't we still have an option to buy back HR?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
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I think, think we lost that right when we sold it the second time. But I'm happy to be corrected on that if someone knows better. I'm going from memory on that one.
 
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