One single significant event that shaped our season ....... (25 Viewers)

[Astute]

The reality is CCFC should have been the only show in town. This was not the stadium being sold to some investment group or similar, its pretty much unprecedented with the exception of Wimbledon's move to MK which was so popular the FA and FL had to declare they would never allow it to happen again!

Yes the arena should only have been sold to CCFC.

Not sold to an investment group? SISU are an investment group.

Wimbledon's move to MK was closer than our move to Northampton than Wasps move to Coventry.

The FL and FA couldn't force SISU to make a proper bid for the Ricoh.

The FL and FA couldn't force CCC to sell on SISU's terms.

The FL and FA seem to be toothless.

 

---

[Ian1779]

If he has not said that they were going to build a stadium why do they show us pictures and have meetings about the stadium that they are going to build and why have they supposedly been in contact with councils on land to build one if he has only said that THEY need to own one and not build one? :thinking about: It is getting a bit silly on here at times.

Our biggest problems were having a squad of players too small and not strong enough for the division we play in. The players don't have enough pace. And we had a useless manager. Or even getting rid of players and replacing them with players not as good.

The point I was trying to make was the club did posture about building a new stadium... But at the point the Ricoh return was announced the tone of the language changed... If you read the BBC sport feature on it, Clive Eakin says that very point... it went from build to own.

Did they know Wasps were about to swoop in and buy the Ricoh? We certainly didn't and I at the time believed that the return meant that we would eventually buy a stake in the stadium once the club had proven it could work with the stadium operators responsibly.

Totally agree with your analysis of the team.

 

[chiefdave]

Not sold to an investment group? SISU are an investment group.

You've misunderstood my point. No one seriously expected there to be other offers for the Ricoh but if there were it was expected to come from an investment group not connected with CCFC. It certainly wasn't expected to be a rugby club from London. Yes SISU are an investment group but they are also our owners and if it was sold to them to be part of a group of companies with the football club in most peoples terms it would be consider to be sold to the club.

Wimbledon's move to MK was closer than our move to Northampton than Wasps move to Coventry.

Don't agree with you there at all. Wimbledon's move to MK is much closer to Wasps permanent move to Coventry than our temporary move to Northampton in my mind.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

One single significant event that shaped our season .......


Playing the whole season with a piss poor weak squad.

Where we are now is the inevitable consequence of that.

 

[Astute]

The point I was trying to make was the club did posture about building a new stadium... But at the point the Ricoh return was announced the tone of the language changed... If you read the BBC sport feature on it, Clive Eakin says that very point... it went from build to own.

Did they know Wasps were about to swoop in and buy the Ricoh? We certainly didn't and I at the time believed that the return meant that we would eventually buy a stake in the stadium once the club had proven it could work with the stadium operators responsibly.

Totally agree with your analysis of the team.

So what odds would you give on SISU saying that they would keep our football club in Northampton until they owned their own stadium to moving us to the Ricoh just as the arena was sold to Wasps without SISU knowing anything about it?

It is more like they knew that their gamble had failed, and the best they could do was go back to rental terms with the terms being much more favorable than previous.

 

[Astute]

You've misunderstood my point. No one seriously expected there to be other offers for the Ricoh but if there were it was expected to come from an investment group not connected with CCFC. It certainly wasn't expected to be a rugby club from London. Yes SISU are an investment group but they are also our owners and if it was sold to them to be part of a group of companies with the football club in most peoples terms it would be consider to be sold to the club.



Don't agree with you there at all. Wimbledon's move to MK is much closer to Wasps permanent move to Coventry than our temporary move to Northampton in my mind.

Some people saw the arena as a white elephant. That doesn't mean that nobody seriously expected other offers to come in for the Ricoh. I was one of us that was saying at the time that SISU were playing a dangerous game and could lose the arena for our club. And I was nowhere near alone in my thoughts. I didn't expect it to happen. I thought that SISU would stop taking the piss and start to negotiate properly. I was wrong. They must have either thought that they were the only ones in town or they didn't have the money to pay for it whilst there was an outstanding amount owed on the mortgage/loan.

Wasps were a rugger team that had moved a few times whilst looking for a home and not a football club. Both Wimbledon and ourselves were moved for purely financial reasons. And none of the three clubs needed to move.

 

[chiefdave]

Wasps were a rugger team that had moved a few times whilst looking for a home and not a football club. Both Wimbledon and ourselves were moved for purely financial reasons. And none of the three clubs needed to move.

Saying Wasps moved a few times is like saying we moved from HR to the Ricoh. It's a million miles from moving from London to Coventry! And the interview with Richardson in the CT clearly stated Wasps moved purely and simply for financial reasons. We know they had other offers, offers that would have seen them back in London but they rejected them.

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

Signing shit players regardless of manager, we have purchased and loaned some very poor players who on the evidence, even with another manager, still contrive to deliver us Saturdays performance which was one of the lamest and worst I have ever witnessed.

 

[ccfcway]

Signing shit players regardless of manager, we have purchased and loaned some very poor players who on the evidence, even with another manager, still contrive to deliver us Saturdays performance which was one of the lamest and worst I have ever witnessed.

not having a go at you, but its bizarre on this forum that if we lose (like Saturday) its because we have shit players, yet if we win, its down to Mowbray

 

[AndreasB]

19,000 fans turning up for one game and never coming again.

 

[olderskyblue]

Not having Grant Ward (or a similar player) in the team from the start of the season.

 

[Astute]

19,000 fans turning up for one game and never coming again.

The manager and squad were already in place before that game. Or are you saying it made our players and manager shit?

 

[Astute]

Saying Wasps moved a few times is like saying we moved from HR to the Ricoh. It's a million miles from moving from London to Coventry! And the interview with Richardson in the CT clearly stated Wasps moved purely and simply for financial reasons. We know they had other offers, offers that would have seen them back in London but they rejected them.

Thinking about it you are right.

The Wimbledon owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move them and pay for a stadium.

The Wasps owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move them and pay for a stadium.

Our owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move us to not pay for a stadium.

 

[Hobo]

19,000 fans turning up for one game and never coming again.

On Saturday the players had the benefit of the third highest home attendance in that division.
The average home attendance is still the sixth highest in that league.
The players have benefitted from the sixth highest average away following.

So despite the dismal season, the bleak future, the lack of owner leadership; the over criticised fan base have delivered a top 6 finished.

It is a shame these players haven't responded with a top six finish themselves and if they had I know there would have been a lot more of that 19000 turning up.

Perhaps the players (considering our budget is right up there with the highest) would like to stump up and pay for a season ticket each. These could awarded to our most loyal fans or just given out through a competition.

Perhaps the players need to need to show they want and appreciate the fans. When we first returned to the Ricoh and there was ticket allocation problems. I did suggest the players after training could go and stick tickets in envelopes with a few handwritten messages of thanks.....this club does not know how to build bridges. The players have benefitted from more support that they deserved to be honest.

 

[Grendel]

Thinking about it you are right.

The Wimbledon owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move them and pay for a stadium.

The Wasps owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move them and pay for a stadium.

Our owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move us to not pay for a stadium.

Who paid for the MK Stadium?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

not really related to this thread, but we havent scored one pen all season (we have only had 2)

You have got to have players in the box and put the ball in there to have a chance of getting one, not standing scratching their arses on the half way line (yes that is you John Fleck)

 

[Astute]

Who paid for the MK Stadium?

Asda paid 35m, Ikea paid 24m and the MK dons owner paid the rest on a 83m total cost of the land and build. They raised the cash through loans.

 

[Grendel]

Asda paid 35m, Ikea paid 24m and the MK dons owner paid the rest on a 83m total cost of the land and build. They raised the cash through loans.

Nice try - read again and do better research.

 

[Astute]

Nice try - read again and do better research.

You show me your wrong information and I will prove you wrong as usual.

 

[Grendel]

You show me your wrong information and I will prove you wrong as usual.

Well your first statement was wrong anyway wasn't it - the owners didn't build it did they?

The information is in the David Conn article you hastily read when I raised the comment - you know the one where he described winklemans deal as the deal of the century.

The truth is you didn't know anything about mK Dons when you made the statement did you? You said the clubs owners paid for the stadium. Well even that once you bothered to look was proved to be false. When you look deeper into it you see that the initial purchase of land was actually made by the consortium wasn't it and then sold back to Asda and IKEA. In fact there were over 200 deals involved wasn't there? No actual funding by the owner at all was there?

It's actually why our club should build its own stadium isn't it because with developer money it actually becomes very financially viable doesn't it?

 

[Astute]

Well your first statement was wrong anyway wasn't it - the owners didn't build it did they?

The information is in the David Conn article you hastily read when I raised the comment - you know the one where he described winklemans deal as the deal of the century.

The truth is you didn't know anything about mK Dons when you made the statement did you? You said the clubs owners paid for the stadium. Well even that once you bothered to look was proved to be false. When you look deeper into it you see that the initial purchase of land was actually made by the consortium wasn't it and then sold back to Asda and IKEA. In fact there were over 200 deals involved wasn't there? No actual funding by the owner at all was there?

It's actually why our club should build its own stadium isn't it because with developer money it actually becomes very financially viable doesn't it?

Come on Grendel say who paid for it then. Took you long enough to find what you have without saying who paid for it.

Will give you another clue. The football club doesn't owe a penny for it. The clubs owner had money when he took them to MK. Now he has a lot of debt.

 

[Grendel]

Come on Grendel say who paid for it then. Took you long enough to find what you have without saying who paid for it.

Will give you another clue. The football club doesn't owe a penny for it. The clubs owner had money when he took them to MK. Now he has a lot of debt.

Well by your own admission the clubs owners didn't did they?

I think you'll find s lot of the original debt actually accrued initially because the consortium had to effectively bank roll the club for 3 or 4 seasons while the ground was being built, the temporary ground had to be redeveloped and this was the problem they faced.

The land wasn't purchased by IKEA and adds either by the way. It was bought by the owner and sold to them for vastly more money.

He isn't personally in debt is he? I think you are associating the company debt with the stadium but it isnt. Its history as above but It's the whole MK1 complex. A new multi plex cinema was funded last year by the operation I believe last year wasn't it?

One recent article claimed he was responsible for bringing £300 million into the local economy in terms of inward investment.

It's the business model I assume sisu would claim to want to emulate which is why it's amusing you initially assumed they just forked out £80
Million without any idea of the true scale of the investment project there.

 

[Astute]

Well by your own admission the clubs owners didn't did they?

I think you'll find s lot of the original debt actually accrued initially because the consortium had to effectively bank roll the club for 3 or 4 seasons while the ground was being built, the temporary ground had to be redeveloped and this was the problem they faced.

The land wasn't purchased by IKEA and adds either by the way. It was bought by the owner and sold to them for vastly more money.

He isn't personally in debt is he? I think you are associating the company debt with the stadium but it isnt. Its history as above but It's the whole MK1 complex. A new multi plex cinema was funded last year by the operation I believe last year wasn't it?

One recent article claimed he was responsible for bringing £300 million into the local economy in terms of inward investment.

It's the business model I assume sisu would claim to want to emulate which is why it's amusing you initially assumed they just forked out £80
Million without any idea of the true scale of the investment project there.

He has said that he had money when he took MK over but only has debt now.

I said that he bought the land then sold it to Asda and Ikea for a profit which went towards build costs. You told me I was wrong and should do my research better.

So when are you going to tell us who paid for the ground?

 

[Grendel]

He has said that he had money when he took MK over but only has debt now.

I said that he bought the land then sold it to Asda and Ikea for a profit which went towards build costs. You told me I was wrong and should do my research better.

So when are you going to tell us who paid for the ground?

Thats odd you said this?

Thinking about it you are right.

The Wimbledon owners wanted their own ground and were willing to move them and pay for a stadium.
.

Now you say they didn't but Asda and Ikea did but they still do? Where did you say he bought the land?

You said this didn't you?

Asda paid 35m, Ikea paid 24m and the MK dons owner paid the rest on a 83m total cost of the land and build. They raised the cash through loans.

And I repeat the debts are company based and associated with the MK1 project I believe such as this?

http://www.mkweb.co.uk/Pete-Winkelm...a-MK1-Milton/story-23040582-detail/story.html

From memory I think he jokes he is worth £4.34 pence or something like that. Is that what you refer to? Are you seriously saying as an individual he is worthless. Have you a link for the evidence?

 

[chiefdave]

Winkleman is rich (or at least was before he decided to get involved in football) but in a pretty well off, comfortable life kind of way. Not in a I'm going to build a stadium way.

 

[Astute]

Thats odd you said this?



Now you say they didn't but Asda and Ikea did but they still do? Where did you say he bought the land?

You said this didn't you?



And I repeat the debts are company based and associated with the MK1 project I believe such as this?

http://www.mkweb.co.uk/Pete-Winkelm...a-MK1-Milton/story-23040582-detail/story.html

From memory I think he jokes he is worth £4.34 pence or something like that. Is that what you refer to? Are you seriously saying as an individual he is worthless. Have you a link for the evidence?

And as usual you make a comment and then try to go on the attack to cover up being wrong. Or are you going to back up what you said with facts and prove I was wrong?

I said that he bought the land and sold some of it to Asda and Ikea. It was similar to the Ricoh/Tesco deal where they wouldn't have got permission easily without some sort of deal. He used the profit towards the build of the stadium. He didn't have the full funds in cash so took out a loan.....not under the name of the football club......to finance the rest of the build. You are yet to even argue against this as I think you have found it to be the truth. So as usual you are reduced to trying to twist words.

How about showing you were right and showing some sort of evidence that I was wrong.......or even admitting you were wrong I have all the evidence to back up what I said as you fully know.

 

[JimmyHillsbeard]

This was going to be the turning point, I thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MbkjJCB1RY&feature=player_detailpage

Not very different to Mowbray's assessment of Saturday.
Still think Pressley was absolutely right on this.

 

[Grendel]

And as usual you make a comment and then try to go on the attack to cover up being wrong. Or are you going to back up what you said with facts and prove I was wrong?

I said that he bought the land and sold some of it to Asda and Ikea. It was similar to the Ricoh/Tesco deal where they wouldn't have got permission easily without some sort of deal. He used the profit towards the build of the stadium. He didn't have the full funds in cash so took out a loan.....not under the name of the football club......to finance the rest of the build. You are yet to even argue against this as I think you have found it to be the truth. So as usual you are reduced to trying to twist words.

How about showing you were right and showing some sort of evidence that I was wrong.......or even admitting you were wrong I have all the evidence to back up what I said as you fully know.

Can you please show me the post where you said he bought the land?

You said his owners paid for a stadium - they didn't. Even you admit that - then seem to oddly deny it. When you said it you were just swinging from the hip as usual.

So did the owners pay for the stadium - yes or no?

As for the loan - was that primarily for the stadium - I thought it was for the whole project part of which I showed you a link to.

Have you supplied any evidence at all to back up your claim that started this conversation off?

Let's be honest have you ever backed up any claim - I'm still waiting for s post I've ever made supporting sisu as owners of the club.

Anyway let's make it easy.

Point one: you said mK Dons owners were willing to pay for a stadium. Is that true or false?

 

[Astute]

Can you please show me the post where you said he bought the land?

You said his owners paid for a stadium - they didn't. Even you admit that - then seem to oddly deny it. When you said it you were just swinging from the hip as usual.

So did the owners pay for the stadium - yes or no?

As for the loan - was that primarily for the stadium - I thought it was for the whole project part of which I showed you a link to.

Have you supplied any evidence at all to back up your claim that started this conversation off?

Let's be honest have you ever backed up any claim - I'm still waiting for s post I've ever made supporting sisu as owners of the club.

Anyway let's make it easy.

Point one: you said mK Dons owners were willing to pay for a stadium. Is that true or false?

His owners? He is the owner. So if he didn't pay for the stadium to be built as you said who did? Still waiting for you to say who did, but as usual you try to muddy the water and change direction with your comments.

He bought the land and sold some to Asda and Ikea.....as in post 89. Yet again as you seem to be having a thick day......he put the profits into the build.

How about the losses they are making now? You missed that out.


So he raised the money to build the stadium. He didn't need to go cap in hand to the local council like we did. So are you now trying to say he wasn't willing to pay for a stadium to be built?

 

[Grendel]

His owners? He is the owner. So if he didn't pay for the stadium to be built as you said who did? Still waiting for you to say who did, but as usual you try to muddy the water and change direction with your comments.

He bought the land and sold some to Asda and Ikea.....as in post 89. Yet again as you seem to be having a thick day......he put the profits into the build.

How about the losses they are making now? You missed that out.


So he raised the money to build the stadium. He didn't need to go cap in hand to the local council like we did. So are you now trying to say he wasn't willing to pay for a stadium to be built?

I am losing the will to live.

Do you at least accept to start with that the two supermarkets paid around £60 million back to the property developers who initially purchased - yes?

 

[LB87ccfc]

Pressley.

*Closes thread*

SISU and their inability to keep players and build a competitive team, instead its cost cut cost cut cost cut until their is nothing left to sell..

Closes thread.

 

[LJC_CCFC]

SISU and their inability to keep players and build a competitive team, instead its cost cut cost cut cost cut until their is nothing left to sell..

Closes thread.

This argument is really really boring now, so I'll try to sum it up quickly.

Firstly EVERYONE is aware that whilst under the current ownership, the level of success achievable at this club is limited (This should be an automatic reply to every SISU based thread on here). As things stand they aren't going anywhere and we as fans sadly cannot do anything about this.

Secondly, Pressley was given an ample budget with which to build a squad that should at the very least finish comfortably in mid-table.

His managerial ineptness is the main reason we are where we are.

 

[LB87ccfc]

This argument is really really boring now, so I'll try to sum it up quickly.

Firstly EVERYONE is aware that whilst under the current ownership, the level of success achievable at this club is limited (This should be an automatic reply to every SISU based thread on here). As things stand they aren't going anywhere and we as fans sadly cannot do anything about this.

Secondly, Pressley was given an ample budget with which to build a squad that should at the very least finish comfortably in mid-table.

His managerial ineptness is the main reason we are where we are.

Nah Il sum it up for you real fast... 60 goals let go in the summer, one who now has his current side on the verge of promotion to the premier league with the sale not invested into the playing squad like we was bullshitted too it would be, asset stripped, signings made behind his back, some who he did not want in the first place, his inability to tactically change games was poor yes, but all on Pressley? certainly not!

 

[Astute]

I am losing the will to live.

Do you at least accept to start with that the two supermarkets paid around £60 million back to the property developers who initially purchased - yes?

I said right at the start....post 87......that Asda paid 35m, Ikea paid 24m and the MK dons owner paid the rest on a 83m total cost of the land and build. Which part of this did you not understand.

How about letting us all know who paid for the stadium build in your version as you said that it wasn't paid for by the MK owner.

 

[Grendel]

I said right at the start....post 87......that Asda paid 35m, Ikea paid 24m and the MK dons owner paid the rest on a 83m total cost of the land and build. Which part of this did you not understand.

How about letting us all know who paid for the stadium build in your version as you said that it wasn't paid for by the MK owner.

The ground cost £50 million.