Refugees welcome? (12 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Indeed. Also if you dare to criticise or suggest an alternative to the monarchy you are branded a traitor.

I have been asked why I hate Britain but not had the traitor jibe yet. I find a lot of people are generally ambivalent until a flag waving excuse like a royal baby comes on and the coverage is unavoidable. You then also always get 'I don't want President Blair' which is amusing since he would never win an election now.

 

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[SIR ERNIE]

Amongst many in Germany, I imagine Merkel is as popular as a rattle snake in a lucky dip !

True Ashdown and you can certain she's even less popular in Austria, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and Macedonia. People are now beginning to see the catastrophic consequences of her 'open door' policy announcement. In contrast the response of Mr Cameron can now clearly be seen as measured and considered.

 

[Sick Boy]

I have been asked why I hate Britain but not had the traitor jibe yet. I find a lot of people are generally ambivalent until a flag waving excuse like a royal baby comes on and the coverage is unavoidable. You then also always get 'I don't want President Blair' which is amusing since he would never win an election now.

People bang on about poverty and inequality but then refuse to listen to criticism of the monarchy. Unless try think that the Windsors were delivered from God, it is bollocks.

I too hae been asked why I hate Britain, I don't see how not agreeing with the monarchy is anti British.

 

[armybike]

Some "interesting" opinions on the refugee situation here -

https://www.facebook.com/coventrytelegraph/posts/983124221744732

 

[SIR ERNIE]

People bang on about poverty and inequality but then refuse to listen to criticism of the monarchy. Unless try think that the Windsors were delivered from God, it is bollocks.

I too hae been asked why I hate Britain, I don't see how not agreeing with the monarchy is anti British.

Well you can rally behind your mate Corbyn now.

Good luck with that one.

 

[Sick Boy]

Well you can rally behind your mate Corbyn now.

Good luck with that one.

How has said that Corbyn is my mate? All you are doing is proving my point.

 

[ajsccfc]

Every Cov Telegraph Facebook article is greeted with absolute cunts on even the most inane stuff, so I'm scared to click that link.

 

[armybike]

Every Cov Telegraph Facebook article is greeted with absolute cunts on even the most inane stuff, so I'm scared to click that link.

You might be best to avoid this one then, it's a "classic" for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Otis]

One thing pricked my interest this morning.

We know the UK has said they will take 20,000 refugees. Well, I have noticed that Australia is only taking 12,000.

Last time I checked Australia was 32 times the size of the UK. Has it shrunk?

 

[ajsccfc]

It's got a lot of area, but an infrastructure that currently supports just over a third of the population of the UK too.

 

[Otis]

It's got a lot of area, but an infrastructure that currently supports just over a third of the population of the UK too.

Knew the first fact. Didn't know the second fact figure was as low as that. :thinking about:

 

[martcov]

True Ashdown and you can certain she's even less popular in Austria, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and Macedonia. People are now beginning to see the catastrophic consequences of her 'open door' policy announcement. In contrast the response of Mr Cameron can now clearly be seen as measured and considered.

not true. Merkel is still popular in Germany and it is not open door. The pressure is on to speed up the asylum process and reject those that are not refugees. The right wing propaganda is unbelievable - literally. Every dirty propaganda trick is being used - old videos of salafists fighting on the streets being rehashed as refugees fighting, the US occupation forces orchestrating arms deliveries to start a civil war, the illuminati sending the refugees to destroy Europe and make it easier to control, the US bringing in Arabs to encourage mixed race children on the basis that mixed race children have an IQ of 90 ( their words not mine ) and are therefore easier to oppress and so on. On the other hand there are people sleeping on the floor in train stations being looked after by volunteers. Not many are happy with the numbers, but there are plenty of people who agree with the humanitarian needs of these people and Merkel showing a human side. The mainstream criticism is directed against the speed of everything and the financing - not at the war refugees.

 

[Nick]

Seen on the news this morning where some are kicking off throwing rocks at police but for some reason all of the children have been shoved to the front?

 

[Sick Boy]

not true. Merkel is still popular in Germany and it is not open door. The pressure is on to speed up the asylum process and reject those that are not refugees. The right wing propaganda is unbelievable - literally. Every dirty propaganda trick is being used - old videos of salafists fighting on the streets being rehashed as refugees fighting, the US occupation forces orchestrating arms deliveries to start a civil war, the illuminati sending the refugees to destroy Europe and make it easier to control, the US bringing in Arabs to encourage mixed race children on the basis that mixed race children have an IQ of 90 ( their words not mine ) and are therefore easier to oppress and so on. On the other hand there are people sleeping on the floor in train stations being looked after by volunteers. Not many are happy with the numbers, but there are plenty of people who agree with the humanitarian needs of these people and Merkel showing a human side. The mainstream criticism is directed against the speed of everything and the financing - not at the war refugees.

Try not to let reality get in the way of a nice rant and a bit od xenophobia.

 

[Sick Boy]

Seen on the news this morning where some are kicking off throwing rocks at police but for some reason all of the children have been shoved to the front?

It must be a defect in their foreign brains.

 

[Nick]

It must be a defect in their foreign brains.

Or it is people putting or allowing their kids to be in front of them while kicking off?

 

[martcov]

Or it is people putting or allowing their kids to be in front of them while kicking off?

I would imagine that the refugees have sold everything they have and gone through hell to get this far, only be told to fuck off by a Hungarian near fascist. I suspect that they are pissed off and see no other means of showing their disgust against armed people. No doubt you would act differently in their circumstances.

 

[martcov]

Or it is people putting or allowing their kids to be in front of them while kicking off?

And, by the way, what kids? I thought they were all able bodied cowardly young men fleeing their duty to fight for their country? ( sarcasm )

 

[Nick]

I would imagine that the refugees have sold everything they have and gone through hell to get this far, only be told to fuck off by a Hungarian near fascist. I suspect that they are pissed off and see no other means of showing their disgust against armed people. No doubt you would act differently in their circumstances.

No you are right, I'd leave my 6 year old daughter in front of me while I threw rocks to take the brunt of anything coming back my way. Although to be fair I should be allowed to throw rocks at others without anything come back at me.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

not true. Merkel is still popular in Germany and it is not open door. The pressure is on to speed up the asylum process and reject those that are not refugees. The right wing propaganda is unbelievable - literally. Every dirty propaganda trick is being used - old videos of salafists fighting on the streets being rehashed as refugees fighting, the US occupation forces orchestrating arms deliveries to start a civil war, the illuminati sending the refugees to destroy Europe and make it easier to control, the US bringing in Arabs to encourage mixed race children on the basis that mixed race children have an IQ of 90 ( their words not mine ) and are therefore easier to oppress and so on. On the other hand there are people sleeping on the floor in train stations being looked after by volunteers. Not many are happy with the numbers, but there are plenty of people who agree with the humanitarian needs of these people and Merkel showing a human side. The mainstream criticism is directed against the speed of everything and the financing - not at the war refugees.

You make her sound very unpopular. And it'll get worse.

Easy to see why. 2 weeks ago Merkel said they'd take 800,000 this year. Then last week the German Vice Chancellor announced they could take half a million a year for several years. Did those fools not think of the consequences of those statements? Those announcements opened the floodgates and the tide is still growing daily. Not just refugees but thousands upon thousands of economic migrants pouring through EU and non EU countries.

Then to compound matters further she says does a U turn and announces that Germany are closing their borders. What a bloody shambles.


Meanwhile all the countries south of Germany are left to handle the tide of migrants that she's largely responsible for mobilising.

 

[martcov]

No you are right, I'd leave my 6 year old daughter in front of me while I threw rocks to take the brunt of anything coming back my way. Although to be fair I should be allowed to throw rocks at others without anything come back at me.

Well, we know that there will be nothing coming back at the kids, and that if you do nothing you will left in limbo land, so I suppose you would be right in those circumstances. The "others" are destroying your future - in your opinion. I have seen City fans bricking opposing teams coach windows and I have been on the receiving end in bricked coaches, so some football fans take your stance for far more trivial reasons. I would say throwing rocks in frustration at being left in the shit is a human reaction ( not right ), but in the circumstances, I can see where they are coming from - maybe you should look at the bigger picture? These are not hooligans as we know them.

 

[Nick]

Well, we know that there will be nothing coming back at the kids, and that if you do nothing you will left in limbo land, so I suppose you would be right in those circumstances. The "others" are destroying your future - in your opinion. I have seen City fans bricking opposing teams coach windows and I have been on the receiving end in bricked coaches, so some football fans take your stance for far more trivial reasons. I would say throwing rocks in frustration at being left in the shit is a human reaction ( not right ), but in the circumstances, I can see where they are coming from - maybe you should look at the bigger picture? These are not hooligans as we know them.

Kids are getting injured aren't they?

Do Hungary have to allow them in / through? Surely it is classed as an invasion if Hungary don't want them there? It is all well and good saying they are Facist and Racist but do they HAVE to let them in if they don't want to?

 

[martcov]

You make her sound very unpopular. And it'll get worse.

Easy to see why. 2 weeks ago Merkel said they'd take 800,000 this year. Then last week the German Vice Chancellor announced they could take half a million a year for several years. Did those fools not think of the consequences of those statements? Those announcements opened the floodgates and the tide is still growing daily. Not just refugees but thousands upon thousands of economic migrants pouring through EU and non EU countries.

Then to compound matters further she says does a U turn and announces that Germany are closing their borders. What a bloody shambles.


Meanwhile all the countries south of Germany are left to handle the tide of migrants that she's largely responsible for mobilising.

She is popular with the mainstream - not with Nazis and right wing people. All the people I know are sympathetic to the refugees and against the Nazis. Maybe I live in a bubble? Thousands of people applauded the refugees at the football game I was at. People are donating things and voluntarily helping the refugees. The mainstream criticism is practical - how are we going to finance this? How quickly can we build new apartments? By blocking the borders and controlling trucks they are catching the people smugglers and putting pressure on their Eastern neighbours. Merkel wants and needs an EU solution to this problem. Germany signed the Geneva convention in 1951, along with others, and guarantees asylum to refugees. That was not Merkel, but she is adhering to it. They had to close the borders because of the sheer scale of the influx. They have over 140000 claims to process ( existing claims ) and not enough accommodation.
Many claimants who are from "safe" countries will be repatriated, but a large number of war refugees will never go back - they have nothing to go back to.

it may be a shambles..... But there is a war going on and we are involved as Europeans. We are in " the war on terror " on the Americans' side. These people are fleeing from the front line. We have to help them - it is a part of war. It will only stop when a deal between the West, Russia and the parties in the ME has been made. So, brace yourself for more to come.....

 

[Nick]

She is popular with the mainstream - not with Nazis and right wing people. All the people I know are sympathetic to the refugees and against the Nazis. Maybe I live in a bubble? Thousands of people applauded the refugees at the football game I was at. People are donating things and voluntarily helping the refugees. The mainstream criticism is practical - how are we going to finance this? How quickly can we build new apartments? By blocking the borders and controlling trucks they are catching the people smugglers and putting pressure on their Eastern neighbours. Merkel wants and needs an EU solution to this problem. Germany signed the Geneva convention in 1951, along with others, and guarantees asylum to refugees. That was not Merkel, but she is adhering to it. They had to close the borders because of the sheer scale of the influx. They have over 140000 claims to process ( existing claims ) and not enough accommodation.
Many claimants who are from "safe" countries will be repatriated, but a large number of war refugees will never go back - they have nothing to go back to.

it may be a shambles..... But there is a war going on and we are involved as Europeans. We are in " the war on terror " on the Americans' side. These people are fleeing from the front line. We have to help them - it is a part of war. It will only stop when a deal between the West, Russia and the parties in the ME has been made. So, brace yourself for more to come.....

Surely it is common sense that there would not be enough accommodation though as well as the back log before they announce that they will let hundreds of thousands in straight away?

It is all well and good saying that people from safe countries will go back, but how much of a delay will the processing / the checking of those will be caused for the actual refugees?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

She is popular with the mainstream - not with Nazis and right wing people. All the people I know are sympathetic to the refugees and against the Nazis. Maybe I live in a bubble? Thousands of people applauded the refugees at the football game I was at. People are donating things and voluntarily helping the refugees. The mainstream criticism is practical - how are we going to finance this? How quickly can we build new apartments? By blocking the borders and controlling trucks they are catching the people smugglers and putting pressure on their Eastern neighbours. Merkel wants and needs an EU solution to this problem. Germany signed the Geneva convention in 1951, along with others, and guarantees asylum to refugees. That was not Merkel, but she is adhering to it. They had to close the borders because of the sheer scale of the influx. They have over 140000 claims to process ( existing claims ) and not enough accommodation.
Many claimants who are from "safe" countries will be repatriated, but a large number of war refugees will never go back - they have nothing to go back to.

it may be a shambles..... But there is a war going on and we are involved as Europeans. We are in " the war on terror " on the Americans' side. These people are fleeing from the front line. We have to help them - it is a part of war. It will only stop when a deal between the West, Russia and the parties in the ME has been made. So, brace yourself for more to come.....

Correct, you do live in a bubble and you need to accept that not everyone outside your bubble is 'Nazi or Right Wing'. That's a daft statement.

And it's YOU not me that needs to brace yourself for more to come, millions in all probability.

 

[martcov]

Kids are getting injured aren't they?

Do Hungary have to allow them in / through? Surely it is classed as an invasion if Hungary don't want them there? It is all well and good saying they are Facist and Racist but do they HAVE to let them in if they don't want to?

If they are the first EU place of arrival, then yes they do and they have to register them. The problem being that not many want to end up in Hungary. Most want Germany or Sweden. Many have family already in Sweden, but are obliged to register in Hungary and could end up in a camp in Hungary as opposed to freedom in Sweden. The people sleeping on the station in Hamburg are waiting to get into Sweden. It is hardly an invasion - that implies use of force and is a term used by the right. The refugees that were in Hungary stuck in Budapest station were protesting about being forced to register in Hungary. They don't want to stay in Hungary. This a bureaucratic problem caused by the Dublin agreement, which has obviously been outdated by the current situation. Merkel wants an EU agreement. Hungary and the eastern countries don't want to get involved.

 

[martcov]

Correct, you do live in a bubble and you need to accept that not everyone outside your bubble is 'Nazi or Right Wing'. That's a daft statement.

And it's YOU not me that needs to brace yourself for more to come, millions in all probability.

Well if it is a bubble, I am happier in it than outside of it. I do not say that everyone outside my bubble ( your opinion ) is a Nazi or right wing, but the people feeding the anti refugee, frightener propaganda machine certainly are.

 

[M&B Stand]

I've travelled a fair bit, and have to say the Balkans and Eastern Europe (pretty much all former communist countries) are by far and away the most racist I've been to.
Hardly the Soviet Socialist utopia the left would have you believe.
Corbyn famously said he shed a tear when the Berlin Wall came down, I bet he did, he knew what was about to be revealed.
Sick Boy, if you think UKIP voters are bigoted little Englanders, Russians would blow your mind.

 

[martcov]

Surely it is common sense that there would not be enough accommodation though as well as the back log before they announce that they will let hundreds of thousands in straight away?

It is all well and good saying that people from safe countries will go back, but how much of a delay will the processing / the checking of those will be caused for the actual refugees?

The Germans did not plan this war. Schröder kept them out for as long as possible. The Germans are not bombing anyone in the Middle East. They do however accept responsibility for the Jews in Israel.

they could hardly plan building accommodation in advance or turn the refugees back until the accommodation has been finished. I agree with the point about processing - new laws will take effect within six weeks ( could of course be a "three weeks" six weeks ). Bureaucracy here is mad. I have just got a 2500,00 fine for not announcing in advance that I was going to pay tax on my temporary staff. That process lasted from October 2014 until yesterday. The time involved to punish me for, in effect, paying tax, must have been enormous as they went back to 2009. In the meantime the pile of unprocessed claims is rising. The FDP ( liberals ) have just pointed out, that, instead of terrorising small businesses, they should second officials from other ministries to take care of the backlog. It cannot be that people are sitting for months on end not knowing their fate whilst a clerk checks through hundreds of temporary staff for my peanuts business. But who am I, I can only vote in local elections as an EU citizen.

 

[Nick]

If they are the first EU place of arrival, then yes they do and they have to register them. The problem being that not many want to end up in Hungary. Most want Germany or Sweden. Many have family already in Sweden, but are obliged to register in Hungary and could end up in a camp in Hungary as opposed to freedom in Sweden. The people sleeping on the station in Hamburg are waiting to get into Sweden. It is hardly an invasion - that implies use of force and is a term used by the right. The refugees that were in Hungary stuck in Budapest station were protesting about being forced to register in Hungary. They don't want to stay in Hungary. This a bureaucratic problem caused by the Dublin agreement, which has obviously been outdated by the current situation. Merkel wants an EU agreement. Hungary and the eastern countries don't want to get involved.

If they have got to Hungary, don't they have to have been through either Greece, Bulgaria or Croatia to get to Serbia which are all EU? I guess they could go all the way around Greece on the sea to Macedonia and that way but that would be a much further sea journey and very tactical for somebody just wanting to survive wouldn't it?

Surely if they are just fleeing to save their lives then they can't be too picky if it is life or death?

 

[Nick]

The Germans did not plan this war. Schröder kept them out for as long as possible. The Germans are not bombing anyone in the Middle East. They do however accept responsibility for the Jews in Israel.

they could hardly plan building accommodation in advance or turn the refugees back until the accommodation has been finished. I agree with the point about processing - new laws will take effect within six weeks ( could of course be a "three weeks" six weeks ). Bureaucracy here is mad. I have just got a 2500,00 fine for not announcing in advance that I was going to pay tax on my temporary staff. That process lasted from October 2014 until yesterday. The time involved to punish me for, in effect, paying tax, must have been enormous as they went back to 2009. In the meantime the pile of unprocessed claims is rising. The FDP ( liberals ) have just pointed out, that, instead of terrorising small businesses, they should second officials from other ministries to take care of the backlog. It cannot be that people are sitting for months on end not knowing their fate whilst a clerk checks through hundreds of temporary staff for my peanuts business. But who am I, I can only vote in local elections as an EU citizen.

That is why I said at the start that it should be planned rather than just opening the doors to everybody and worrying about the consequences later.

 

[lewys33]

Why do you have to be 100% for or against?!

I think there is a humanitarian crisis which needs addressing, and I think taking 20,000 refugees is perfectly acceptable. I don't however think they should be allowed to roam as freely as Germany has allowed, and especially get away with kicking off when they are stopped at a border.

 

[Nick]

Why do you have to be 100% for or against?!

I think there is a humanitarian crisis which needs addressing, and I think taking 20,000 refugees is perfectly acceptable. I don't however think they should be allowed to roam as freely as Germany has allowed, and especially get away with kicking off when they are stopped at a border.

Exactly, I don't think anybody has said Britain shouldn't help. It is just about how we help, rather than just saying "come on down" to everybody and anybody.

They are stopped at a border for a reason, if they want to kick off they should be arrested and sent back.

 

[martcov]

Exactly, I don't think anybody has said Britain shouldn't help. It is just about how we help, rather than just saying "come on down" to everybody and anybody.

They are stopped at a border for a reason, if they want to kick off they should be arrested and sent back.

they - are thousands of desperate people. If they arrived in Greece and were registered in Greece, then they would be staying there. I think they have slipped the net to get as far as Hungary, but that is where it ends and they have to register. Having said that, they are pulling people on the Autobahn in Germany. I saw mobile scanners on the parking areas scanning Turkish trucks. It is getting hotter for people smugglers. So, some are getting through though.

Every train station I was passing through and every train I was on in the last few days had refugees - with translators and helpers.

I don't think it as easy as "arrest them and send them back". This the biggest refugee crisis since the Second World War.

i don't think people have realised the extent of this "war on terror". Yes, there will be more coming to Germany - they have a right to asylum and many will stay for good.

On a personal note, I have property ( not much ) in Hamburg and people are asking to buy my flats. Many more flats will be built and the building regulations will be relaxed. One positive side effect will be a building boom as property values are increasing. I have no idea where this will all end, but I am not going to blame this crisis on the refugees.

 

[Nick]

they - are thousands of desperate people. If they arrived in Greece and were registered in Greece, then they would be staying there. I think they have slipped the net to get as far as Hungary, but that is where it ends and they have to register. Having said that, they are pulling people on the Autobahn in Germany. I saw mobile scanners on the parking areas scanning Turkish trucks. It is getting hotter for people smugglers. So, some are getting through though.

Every train station I was passing through and every train I was on in the last few days had refugees - with translators and helpers.

I don't think it as easy as "arrest them and send them back". This the biggest refugee crisis since the Second World War.

i don't think people have realised the extent of this "war on terror". Yes, there will be more coming to Germany - they have a right to asylum and many will stay for good.

On a personal note, I have property ( not much ) in Hamburg and people are asking to buy my flats. Many more flats will be built and the building regulations will be relaxed. One positive side effect will be a building boom as property values are increasing. I have no idea where this will all end, but I am not going to blame this crisis on the refugees.

What I don't understand is why they are so desperate in Hungary? Surely if they had settled in Bulgaria or Romania it would be same there from ISIS?

What should they do with trouble makers then? Just say "ah they are desperate" and let them do what they want?

It is the way people seem to expect things, if I was running for my life I don't think I'd be too picky. I'd just be glad to be safe.