Calista
Well-Known Member
Fair enough - no point Anderson going to talk to them then. And no possibility that new investors will ever try to bring things together either.
Butts Park Arena is new home (21 Viewers)
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Fair enough - no point Anderson going to talk to them then. And no possibility that new investors will ever try to bring things together either.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
How can I be proved right if nothing has happened yet ?
Don't talk to me about arrogance when you put me down for supporting Wasps and making money from their supporters. Man up.
Moff
Well-Known Member
First you cant be proved right, as you arent. Simple.
Secondly you must be confusing me with someone else you dipshit. Have I put you down for supporting Wasps? No, and I just take the piss about the car park. Booh hoo poor Italia, the nasty man made a joke about the car park.
I think you and your lost sense of humour needs to man up, and like I siad you know fuck all K.
Nick
Administrator
People only point it out because of your views and things you have said.
The owner of the bull and anchor makes money, they may well go and watch but they weren't on here giving it out when we were at sixfields. They aren't on here trying to ram wasps stuff down people's throats.
People also point out the trust at wasps, again because of their views in the past and things said.
I've never seen anybody on here have a go at Dave who goes to watch with his pals from the rugby club when cov rugby don't have a game.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Ask yourself this....
Why would we build/buy into a stadium not fit for our needs with out the capacity and local infrastructure to cope with any success we get as a team ie: premier league when we are in a technically advanced stadium already with the potential to hold some 34k?
If its a ruse to get a super deal with WASP then great. If it's serious then CCFC must be mad. WASP will need us around as they can't sustain the Ricoh on their fan base alone.
Conventional wisdom tells me the more likely outcome in time will be getting our hands back on the Ricoh in at least a shared format.
Why would we build/buy into a stadium not fit for our needs with out the capacity and local infrastructure to cope with any success we get as a team ie: premier league when we are in a technically advanced stadium already with the potential to hold some 34k?
If its a ruse to get a super deal with WASP then great. If it's serious then CCFC must be mad. WASP will need us around as they can't sustain the Ricoh on their fan base alone.
Conventional wisdom tells me the more likely outcome in time will be getting our hands back on the Ricoh in at least a shared format.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
footnote to that: it's not about ownership but security of tenure at the right value that makes everything viable. You don't have to own your own stadium to be able to sell the football club for a good price. Access to a top stadium like the Ricoh at almost peppercorn rents or a shared ownership would be more value than anything achievable at the Butts.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Like I said don't believe everything you read on here.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Yes Sisu should save their money and use it to buy the Wasps, then they can get the full potential of the Arena as they have always wanted.
Then they will truly have something to sell.
After all everything is for sale at a price.
PUSB
Astute
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone. This thread was an entertaining read. So here is my useless points to add to the other useless points made so far.
To have a tiered stadium you would need it to be set back from the pitch or to be very steep so the top tier can see the pitch. There isn't room to be set away from the pitch and a steep top tier wouldn't happen.
The only stand built now is very narrow because of the building behind it. And they would also have a right to light.
Is there room to move the pitch over and up? Otherwise there would also be a corner with not much space because of the train line. If this was to happen the two clubs playing there already would have to find somewhere to play whilst it is moved and built.
We have seen what happens to the pitch during winter with a football team and a rugger team playing on the same pitch. So imagine a football team and two rugger teams.
As Otis has said what about the parking? Spaces can be hard to find on a Saturday as it is.
Why is it that some of the same people go on about us not being able to afford to be in the Championship but say a 12k to 15k stadium would be sufficient? What other income except for pie money would it generate? It is said we already get 50%. And what would the 365 income be? So would it be a wise move to spend lots of money on a project just to get the other 50%?
Extend the stands during closed season? If you put stands up you wouldn't be able to get to half of the stadium on the outside. And how quickly do you think it can be done?
A great location but just not big enough.
To have a tiered stadium you would need it to be set back from the pitch or to be very steep so the top tier can see the pitch. There isn't room to be set away from the pitch and a steep top tier wouldn't happen.
The only stand built now is very narrow because of the building behind it. And they would also have a right to light.
Is there room to move the pitch over and up? Otherwise there would also be a corner with not much space because of the train line. If this was to happen the two clubs playing there already would have to find somewhere to play whilst it is moved and built.
We have seen what happens to the pitch during winter with a football team and a rugger team playing on the same pitch. So imagine a football team and two rugger teams.
As Otis has said what about the parking? Spaces can be hard to find on a Saturday as it is.
Why is it that some of the same people go on about us not being able to afford to be in the Championship but say a 12k to 15k stadium would be sufficient? What other income except for pie money would it generate? It is said we already get 50%. And what would the 365 income be? So would it be a wise move to spend lots of money on a project just to get the other 50%?
Extend the stands during closed season? If you put stands up you wouldn't be able to get to half of the stadium on the outside. And how quickly do you think it can be done?
A great location but just not big enough.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Regarding the comments about the attendance limiting our ambitions and increasing wasps fan base by the usual suspects. How does that work? There attendances are falling now. If we moved out would they suddenly go up? Imagine the egg on the face if this happened and wasps went bust cos of the bonds. The council would not only have sold it under value but would also be left with an empty stadium. And this time other than ourselves I couldn't see anyone buying it. Does anyone think the rugby club might be as pissed off with the council as some of us and went to the club and suggested the possibility?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Completely and totally agree.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Wasn't the existing planning consent outline? It's a big difference to getting detailed consent.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
No, Anderson will need to talk to them because a) our current deal runs out in September, b) any new stadium will take 8-10 years to build and c) there isn't going to be a stadium anyway. We have no choice but to talk to them.
Wasps owner has said there will be no change of ownership of ACL, they have subsequently done the bond scheme and used ACL and the leasehold as security.
OSB has outlined in another thread the financial reasons why wasps won't/can't sell shares and why wasps won't/can't takeover ccfc.
Unless wasps go tits up (unlikely) or a Russian or Arab billionaire comes in (even more unlikely now because of the complexity of 3 loss making organisations) the ccfc is never going to own 50%+ of ACL.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I can't see us going to the butts although it might have been interesting to see how it would go if we had fixtures on the same day as them where the people who go to both would go.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It's simple maths. Currently their biggest competition is CCFC with the potential to draw 32k. Overnight that potential is going to halve and then some. It halves CCFC's potential because it has overnight lost 50% capacity of it's biggest revenue, ticket sales. Wasps biggest competition now only has half the potential it used to have and is no longer in an equal footing, it's an inferior competitor. What company is not going to appreciate there competition doing that? I'm sure if Tesco's shut half of all their stores of I'm sure Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons would be laughing.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Here's a thought. What if the Butts park story is a red herring and not about a rent deal at the Ricoh?
It's an old trick in planning. If you have some land for development that's a difficult sell to the local community and likely to be strongly apposed they put in a ridiculous over the top application twice the size of what they actually want to do, the local community predictably get up in arms, after a bit of game play they then put in a smaller application which in reality is what they wanted to do in the first place. The local community are so relieved to see the reduced plan's it sails through.
Using that same reverse phycology what if SISU have a plot of land, it's further away from the city than the FL originally stipulated (hence, they've inspected and approved) and the red herring of the Butts is so we can all go 12-15k too small (well some of us, to some getting out the Ricoh at any cost is all that's important) in the hope that when they give us an option B that we wouldn't like in the first place due to location but would be 20-25k so we breathe a sigh of relief and accept it.
Not saying that is the case. Just saying that the game play going on might not necessarily be about what most of us seem to think it's about. The Ricoh.
It's an old trick in planning. If you have some land for development that's a difficult sell to the local community and likely to be strongly apposed they put in a ridiculous over the top application twice the size of what they actually want to do, the local community predictably get up in arms, after a bit of game play they then put in a smaller application which in reality is what they wanted to do in the first place. The local community are so relieved to see the reduced plan's it sails through.
Using that same reverse phycology what if SISU have a plot of land, it's further away from the city than the FL originally stipulated (hence, they've inspected and approved) and the red herring of the Butts is so we can all go 12-15k too small (well some of us, to some getting out the Ricoh at any cost is all that's important) in the hope that when they give us an option B that we wouldn't like in the first place due to location but would be 20-25k so we breathe a sigh of relief and accept it.
Not saying that is the case. Just saying that the game play going on might not necessarily be about what most of us seem to think it's about. The Ricoh.
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Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Car Parking ? There was non at Highfield Road - and then gates were much higher in the Premiership and Championship (early days). 35,000 plus ? We all found somewhere to park and walk up.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
But are you not basing that on the presumption that those who couldn't get a ccfc ticket would go buy a wasps ticket? We both currently have access to a 32k stadium. We're currently attracting more than them. In part to our current form. If our form was to dip our attendances would in all likelihood. Therefore it's bit more to it than simple maths. Or was that said to make me look stupid?
The Butts area is an ideal location but its just not big enough and very little room for expansion. Those retirement flats at back of stand have sold well and am sure the owners and builders would not be to happy with a football ground being built next door.
My Daughter lives in the small block on the corner (over road from closed pub) and we go to Butts regularly, I do not think there is enough land, also parking is an absolute nightmare.
My Daughter lives in the small block on the corner (over road from closed pub) and we go to Butts regularly, I do not think there is enough land, also parking is an absolute nightmare.
Yes but we had street parking, you cannot do that near Butts as its so close to town.
I agree, a long term agreement at Ricoh would make the club a sellable product, especially if in Championship.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Have you forgotten the size and gates at HR?
And before HR became all seater and when we had massive gates not many people had a car. So lots of space outside the nearby houses for not many cars to park.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?
i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.
park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.
Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.
it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Why would any investor buy a club without a stadium? Other than sisu and we all know what people think of them. With ffp being introduced and minimising the amount an investor could put in our only hope is other revenue sources. Now admittedly the butts would be limited in this regard but no more than we are currently.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
What kind of buyers do you think will be queuing up to buy the football club with no/little prospect of owning the stadium?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Astute
Well-Known Member
A long lease at the Ricoh would give us a ground. If SISU spent 20m or more to build a stadium they would want an extra 20m or more to sell. Have you seen how much football clubs sell for when they are not one of the top clubs? So a rental agreement would mean not a large initial outlay they would want to recover.
How are we limited as much at the Ricoh as we would be if they spent a lot of money at the Butts? Yes we would get 100% of the pie money instead of what is said to be 50%. But the gates at the Ricoh are not limited like the Butts would be.
FFP does not limit what someone wants to put in a club. It does limit loans to a club as it is not allowed like it used to be. This stops anyone loading a club with loans.
Our club would be more sellable to an investor with money who would want to build a stadium that suits than having to pay for a stadium that doesn't.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Google images are out of date there are a couple of multi story sheltered accommodation blocks really close now, the site being developed by Extra Care who are building them (the project may be complete by now).
One of the planning submissions http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=1052639
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Astute
Well-Known Member
I would say that there is more chance of someone being interested if we had a long term deal at a decent rent at the Ricoh than having to also pay for a ground that isn't good enough to take us forward.
There are a lot of clubs that rent their grounds. Are you saying that none of these have ever been taken over?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
None that have the ground owned by a private sporting rival to my knowledge no. Who do you have in mind? Perhaps Stockport County to be fair - there's a business model to be proud of.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Figures ? Calculations ?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
We won't have a long lease. We'll be tenants to the leaseholder. Sub-letting.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
What kind of buyers do you think will be queuing up to buy the football club with no/little prospect of owning the stadium?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Owners that see a football team with a long term deal including access to incomes and no stadium costs or stadium debt ?
As I have said before, Sisu will own the stadium and rent it back to us. The stadium investors will have access to the 'other' incomes and we will get a percentage. What's the difference ?
In addition if they are buying a 12,000 seater stadium they will need to extend it if they have any ambition.
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