2,800 (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

So, if I sum up .....

Going on the hill and protesting is divisive. Going into the ground and protesting is divisive and meeting up at the Ricoh on match days and protesting is divisive!


And then to top it all off people then say if we don't all do any of those things that we are just sitting behind our computers and doing nothing!! :thinking about::claping hands:

To be honest I think the only divisive thing is trying to tell people what to do. there could well be a game at the ricoh or something on the same day but all it would achieve is trying to get the fans to make a choice.

The march has been the only thing really to bring fans together.

 

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[Moff]

And then to top it all off people then say if we don't all do any of those things that we are just sitting behind our computers and doing nothing!! :thinking about::claping hands:

No Otis, you must be sitting behind your computer and typing, otherwise how would your post have appeared? ....oh no i'm at it now

 

[Nick]

No Otis, you must be sitting behind your computer and typing, otherwise how would your post have appeared? ....oh no i'm at it now

Probably on his phone this is 2013 you know!!!

 

[Moff]

Probably on his phone this is 2013 you know!!!

Touche

 

[valiant15]

How can the same people who go apeshit when we score at places like Wolves and MK Dons not care about the results at Sixfields? I know plenty who won't go there, but they will all have been dancing around their living rooms when Wilson banged in the 4th against Peterborough. At some point we will get our club back, and surely we all want it to be in the best place it possibly can be (on the pitch) when that happens.

The trouble is that im not to fussed about the away games either.

Every ounce of enthusiasm i had has been sucked out of me. I'd give anything to feel how i used to.

 

[thaiskyblue]

The trouble is that im not to fussed about the away games either.

Every ounce of enthusiasm i had has been sucked out of me. I'd give anything to feel how i used to.

try valium mr valiant.

 

[valiant15]

How would you know if you have never been? Any city fan should find it hard to celebrate a city goal whether it is the San siro or pitch 2 at nico.

No ive never been and never will. I just don't care about what happens down there. I dont have to be there to know how i feel.

 

[valiant15]

try valium mr valiant.

Viagra mixed with ecstasy might help.

 

[Otis]

To be honest I think the only divisive thing is trying to tell people what to do. there could well be a game at the ricoh or something on the same day but all it would achieve is trying to get the fans to make a choice.

The march has been the only thing really to bring fans together.

You can't keep arranging marches though. These sorts of things are one offs.

I personally saw no problem at all with the Ricoh charity game. A clear statement had to be made that fans wanted the club in Coventry. It wasn't an anti-Sisu or pro-ACL thing, but you were always going to get some chants of disdain against the owners.

From my memory it was by no means the majority. For me I would say, the two things with the most impact have been the march and the charity match. You wouldn't get the same numbers again for any march, but I do think if things were organised properly at the Ricoh that could draw in large numbers.

 

[Astute]

Behave. We're talking about the purchase of the stadium management company on a leasehold basis (they'll never get the freehold and they know it), and the true market value (given the council's own estimates) is well below the potential sell on price for the stadium and club AS A PACKAGE. They will clearly not sell on immediately, and will have to try and turn the fortunes of the club around to a degree - that would require a promotion at least, and also improve the fortunes of ACL as a business - and bringing in AEG would be a good move. The success or otherwise of this plan is not guaranteed (their record isn't great is it), but the idea that ACL will hang around being 'distressed' for 5 years waiting for SISU to make their move is a nonsense. SISU want the Ricoh, and they will obviously hope to get it at a price that is favourable to them, but they want it sooner rather than later. They are not going to wait 5 years losing more money hand over fist simply so they can buy the Ricoh for a few million quid less than what they could buy it for now. And you have the cheek to call me naive.

If they wanted it more sooner than later why didn't they take up the offer of rent free for the rest of the season and 100k for the next two seasons? And before anyone tries to say that there was clauses in the offer I am sure we would have heard from Timothy or Joy letting us know what they were by now. All they tried to say that the offer wasn't made to them. This was just them trying to twist the facts to get us to believe that no such offer was made. The offer was made through a third party.......the FL......and SISUE in the past had asked for negotiations through a third party.

I agree that there isn't much chance of them getting the freehold on the cheap. But the profits for doing so is so high that they might think it is worth the gamble of keeping their outlay low on us for years whilst trying to do so. So welcome to Northampton for years to come. The FL have already said they won't force them to have us back playing in Coventry.

 

[valiant15]

If they wanted it more sooner than later why didn't they take up the offer of rent free for the rest of the season and 100k for the next two seasons? And before anyone tries to say that there was clauses in the offer I am sure we would have heard from Timothy or Joy letting us know what they were by now. All they tried to say that the offer wasn't made to them. This was just them trying to twist the facts to get us to believe that no such offer was made. The offer was made through a third party.......the FL......and SISUE in the past had asked for negotiations through a third party.

I agree that there isn't much chance of them getting the freehold on the cheap. But the profits for doing so is so high that they might think it is worth the gamble of keeping their outlay low on us for years whilst trying to do so. So welcome to Northampton for years to come. The FL have already said they won't force them to have us back playing in Coventry.

Just my opinion but why should the Coventry tax payer be the fall guy for a hedgefunds failed gamble if they were to get the freehold for peanuts?

 

[theferret]

If they wanted it more sooner than later why didn't they take up the offer of rent free for the rest of the season and 100k for the next two seasons? And before anyone tries to say that there was clauses in the offer I am sure we would have heard from Timothy or Joy letting us know what they were by now. All they tried to say that the offer wasn't made to them. This was just them trying to twist the facts to get us to believe that no such offer was made. The offer was made through a third party.......the FL......and SISUE in the past had asked for negotiations through a third party.

I agree that there isn't much chance of them getting the freehold on the cheap. But the profits for doing so is so high that they might think it is worth the gamble of keeping their outlay low on us for years whilst trying to do so. So welcome to Northampton for years to come. The FL have already said they won't force them to have us back playing in Coventry.

You make some good points. My post was a reaction to the post that suggested that I had made the 'most naive post in years'. We were speculating as to what SISU's motive are.

I was speculating that they have no real intention of building a new ground. What they want is the Ricoh as a favourable price with a view to selling the club and stadium on (probably as a package) at some point in the future. This would require a turnaround of fortunes on the pitch, and let's be honest, promotion from division 3 for a club our size (especially once we get proper gates again) is not exactly the stuff of dreams. It is perfectly achievable, even for SISU. I believe that they would want a return sooner rather than later because there is no point losing millions every year for 5 years to simply knock a few million off the purchase price.

He was speculating that their intention is to spend 5 years in Northampton for that very reason, conveniently forgetting that a. that makes no sense financially (even less sense than what they are doing now which is pretty senseless), b. that ACL would have moved on with a plan b long before then and c. practically nobody will stick with the club for that long in those circumstances.

All speculation of course, and I don't pretend to have my finger on the pulse of the truth, but I'll leave others to decide who is being the most naive.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Behave. We're talking about the purchase of the stadium management company on a leasehold basis (they'll never get the freehold and they know it), and the true market value (given the council's own estimates) is well below the potential sell on price for the stadium and club AS A PACKAGE. They will clearly not sell on immediately, and will have to try and turn the fortunes of the club around to a degree - that would require a promotion at least, and also improve the fortunes of ACL as a business - and bringing in AEG would be a good move. The success or otherwise of this plan is not guaranteed (their record isn't great is it), but the idea that ACL will hang around being 'distressed' for 5 years waiting for SISU to make their move is a nonsense. SISU want the Ricoh, and they will obviously hope to get it at a price that is favourable to them, but they want it sooner rather than later. They are not going to wait 5 years losing more money hand over fist simply so they can buy the Ricoh for a few million quid less than what they could buy it for now. And you have the cheek to call me naive.

I can't see any sense in their plans unless they win the JR and ACL post losses.

However, I do see those plans as being morally reprehensible..

 

[Astute]

You make some good points. My post was a reaction to the post that suggested that I had made the 'most naive post in years'. We were speculating as to what SISU's motive are.

I was speculating that they have no real intention of building a new ground. What they want is the Ricoh as a favourable price with a view to selling the club and stadium on (probably as a package) at some point in the future. This would require a turnaround of fortunes on the pitch, and let's be honest, promotion from division 3 for a club our size (especially once we get proper gates again) is not exactly the stuff of dreams. It is perfectly achievable, even for SISU. I believe that they would want a return sooner rather than later because there is no point losing millions every year for 5 years to simply knock a few million off the purchase price.

He was speculating that their intention is to spend 5 years in Northampton for that very reason, conveniently forgetting that a. that makes no sense financially (even less sense than what they are doing now which is pretty senseless), b. that ACL would have moved on with a plan b long before then and c. practically nobody will stick with the club for that long in those circumstances.

All speculation of course, and I don't pretend to have my finger on the pulse of the truth, but I'll leave others to decide who is being the most naive.

He was speculating. You are speculating. I am speculating. We all must agree here

I try to speculate whilst using evidence on what is going on and what has already gone on before. As I said on previous post SISUE don't seem to be in any hurry to bring our club home. They have even shown us pictures of the supposed ground they say they will build since the rent free and 100k a season offer. This tells me the odds are that secret talks are not ongoing. Saying that Timothy recently mentioned that they could come to an agreement on rental terms. But if this was true does he see a rent of 100k a season as too much or was it to try and keep the fans happy after we worked out they had twisted the truth again?

Maybe they want a peppercorn rent plus all the pie money. The problem is all we can do is speculate. They don't seem to come out with the truth unless it is bad news. It was all about the rent being too high. Yet 0 rent for the rest of the season isn't good enough. It was all about the pie money next. But it would take years of getting the pie money to make up for what they have lost out on already by having us in Northampton.

Once I see evidence of them wanting to bring us home I will speculate on the matter. But I have not seen the slightest evidence of such.

 

[theferret]

He was speculating. You are speculating. I am speculating. We all must agree here

I try to speculate whilst using evidence on what is going on and what has already gone on before. As I said on previous post SISUE don't seem to be in any hurry to bring our club home. They have even shown us pictures of the supposed ground they say they will build since the rent free and 100k a season offer. This tells me the odds are that secret talks are not ongoing. Saying that Timothy recently mentioned that they could come to an agreement on rental terms. But if this was true does he see a rent of 100k a season as too much or was it to try and keep the fans happy after we worked out they had twisted the truth again?

Maybe they want a peppercorn rent plus all the pie money. The problem is all we can do is speculate. They don't seem to come out with the truth unless it is bad news. It was all about the rent being too high. Yet 0 rent for the rest of the season isn't good enough. It was all about the pie money next. But it would take years of getting the pie money to make up for what they have lost out on already by having us in Northampton.

Once I see evidence of them wanting to bring us home I will speculate on the matter. But I have not seen the slightest evidence of such.

It comes down to this, do you really think they will deliberately lose tens of millions over 5 years simply as a tactic to possibly shave a million or two off the purchase price of the Ricoh? What they are doing now is a calculated gamble, and yes, we can only speculate as to their true motive, and not much of what they do makes much sense. That said, I believe they have no intention of this situation lasting 5 years (unless they surprise us all and actually build a new ground); so it is on that basis I believe something will give in the next 12-18 months.

 

[Astute]

It comes down to this, do you really think they will deliberately lose tens of millions over 5 years simply as a tactic to possibly shave a million or two off the purchase price of the Ricoh? What they are doing now is a calculated gamble, and yes, we can only speculate as to their true motive, and not much of what they do makes much sense. That said, I believe they have no intention of this situation lasting 5 years (unless they surprise us all and actually build a new ground); so it is on that basis I believe something will give in the next 12-18 months.

I agree that they won't want this to continue for another 5 years with having to keep raising the money to keep it up, but do you think they would just give up on what they are after?

And do you really think they planned to still be with us 6 years after taking us over and still not have the end in sight?

 

[theferret]

I agree that they won't want this to continue for another 5 years with having to keep raising the money to keep it up, but do you think they would just give up on what they are after?

And do you really think they planned to still be with us 6 years after taking us over and still not have the end in sight?

First question is that I honestly don't know, but they will have to turn the tap off at some point as they don't have a bottomless pit of money surely? This is why I think something will give long before 2018/19 (which was what the other poster was suggesting was their target time period for 'distressing ACL').

To your second question, the answer must be no. The whole thing has been a car crash (for us and for them). Surely they are looking for some form of damage limitation, and that must surely mean a sensible offer for the leasehold? I say 'surely' but then nothing they do really makes much sense. I maintain that they do have a valid point about stadium ownership and some of the actions of ACL/CCC over the years, but they have made a complete pigs-ear of making their case and have alienated pretty much everyone in the process. I am sure they have a plan, but what it is I don't really know - but I am sure it doesn't involve a 5 year exile.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why don't you organise another Charity game to coincide with a Coventry game at Sixfields? That was a smart move wasn't it? Probably the most unintentionally divisive act of this whole sorry saga. Never forgive the Trust for its support of that. Mind you, the did want us put into admin so shouldnt expect common sense from them.

Is this the charity match that was organised months in advance as part of our anniversary celebrations and deliberately on a Sunday so as not to clash with the city home game that was supposed to be on the Saturday?

only for sisu to take the club to Northampton meaning that what should have been a Saturday game had to be moved to Sunday. Its sisu that I will never forgive as should be the case for any Coventry fan.

Still the parking is better.

 

[Astute]

First question is that I honestly don't know, but they will have to turn the tap off at some point as they don't have a bottomless pit of money surely? This is why I think something will give long before 2018/19 (which was what the other poster was suggesting was their target time period for 'distressing ACL').

To your second question, the answer must be no. The whole thing has been a car crash (for us and for them). Surely they are looking for some form of damage limitation, and that must surely mean a sensible offer for the leasehold? I say 'surely' but then nothing they do really makes much sense. I maintain that they do have a valid point about stadium ownership and some of the actions of ACL/CCC over the years, but they have made a complete pigs-ear of making their case and have alienated pretty much everyone in the process. I am sure they have a plan, but what it is I don't really know - but I am sure it doesn't involve a 5 year exile.

I fully agree on all of this other than them not having a bottomless pit of money. They don't have any money. They have their investors money. The big question is how much longer would their investors be happy to keep pumping money in to have a chance of getting what they are after? The investors will know what the present plan is. What we don't know is how happy they are. And to me this is why NOPM is working. We don't know how many of us are not going because of NOPM......but neither do they. They just know that we are not going. And this is a major problem for them.

You can now buy a half season ticket for less than £100.....and this is the most expensive. So the most expensive is less than £9 a game. To me it will be down to who blinks first. It seems that ACL are making a small profit. SISUE are making a loss. Logically it can only go one way. But when have SISUE ever run our club with logic?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

"The only way out of this mess (that I can see) is for SISU to buy the Ricoh and sell it on" that was the quote by Ferret that I thought was naive, if they had any intention of buying it at a reasonable market price it would never have come to this a rent strike, move to Northants, JR new stadium hoax. They don't want ACL either its the freehold which can be sold on. Naive was a strong word oversimplistic would have been fairer, if SISUE manage to get the Ricoh it will be on their terms following court cases more JRs more stress on CCC/ the supporters etc..it won't be following standard commercial negotiations.

 

[theferret]

"The only way out of this mess (that I can see) is for SISU to buy the Ricoh and sell it on" that was the quote by Ferret that I thought was naive, if they had any intention of buying it at a reasonable market price it would never have come to this a rent strike, move to Northants, JR new stadium hoax. They don't want ACL either its the freehold which can be sold on. Naive was a strong word oversimplistic would have been fairer, if SISUE manage to get the Ricoh it will be on their terms following court cases more JRs more stress on CCC/ the supporters etc..it won't be following standard commercial negotiations.

I disagree to an extent but I understand your logic and reasoning so fair enough. I could argue that they did try to buy the Higgs share 18 months ago, but that has been done to death and I know people have differing opinions as to what really went on there. Meanwhile this shit-fest continues. Hopefully 2014 will be a better year for all of us.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

I worked for a company that was overtaken by a private equity company, rewrote the rules of business pushing issues to the edge of legality, for most of our management it was a shock as they rode rough shot over long standing business relationships, they ultimately succeeded in making a huge profit. Unfotunately if SISUE to achieve their objectives it will be painful for all around, success for SISUE is not the same as success for CCFC.

 

[Astute]

Yes they did do an attempt to buy the Higg's share. SISUE are being sued by Higgs it looks for the 27k expenses as they had agreed that was payable if they went through with buying or not. But from my guesstimation what happened was they were not happy to pay the approx 6m that Higgs had put into what SISUE wanted. It seems that at the time they wanted the whole stadium for not much more than 6m by distressing ACL through not paying the rent and paying off the mortgage. As we all know they failed with their attempt hence the JR. Did they not pay Higgs the money because they never got the stadium or did they not go through the deal because they thought they would get the whole thing for not much more?

 

[italiahorse]

Yes, do something about it. Post on an internet forum how you don't support the club any more and won't go to sixfields. That will show them.

I will always support the club so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
However I will not be supporting live until they are back at the Ricoh. That's my protest.
You can tell Tim that for me and probably also mention that I'm not alone.
Also tell him I will not be going to the new stadium I'll get the results at 5pm.
Of course though you won't as you are in denial and like others that attend Sixfields 'you just want to support the team' and are frightened to say boo.

 

[Otis]

Why don't you organise another Charity game to coincide with a Coventry game at Sixfields? That was a smart move wasn't it? Probably the most unintentionally divisive act of this whole sorry saga. Never forgive the Trust for its support of that. Mind you, the did want us put into admin so shouldnt expect common sense from them.

The most devisive thing in this whole sorry mess is our owners taking the club some 34 miles away from our home.

As a result we now have division and in-fighting amongst supporters, despair and 90% of City fans no longer watching their team at its home ground.

 

[WillieStanley]

explain why the attendees have jumped up by 1200. surely the Northampton locals haven't given up on their own club so quickly?

there should be no CCFC fan in sixfields at all.

I'll explain why I was there. It's the second Sixfields match I've been to this season. I do not buy into the NOPM theory, although commend those who advocate it. I also went with my daughter, who hasn't been to see her Sky Blues since the Sheff Utd match. She is deeply passionate about the club at a very young age. That is in danger of evaporating. I won't let that happen because a few angry people on a forum say they don't agree with it. That fact I even feel the need to justify going to watch the team I have supported since I was a boy with my daughter to other supporters of the team deeply saddens me. Please take ownership of this divide you are continuing to create.

 

[ccfc92]

I'll explain why I was there. It's the second Sixfields match I've been to this season. I do not buy into the NOPM theory, although commend those who advocate it. I also went with my daughter, who hasn't been to see her Sky Blues since the Sheff Utd match. She is deeply passionate about the club at a very young age. That is in danger of evaporating. I won't let that happen because a few angry people on a forum say they don't agree with it. That fact I even feel the need to justify going to watch the team I have supported since I was a boy with my daughter to other supporters of the team deeply saddens me. Please take ownership of this divide you are continuing to create.

That's all fine. But the fact there's 8,000 not there compared to the Ricoh shows it's not "a few angry people on a forum"

Just saying

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I'll explain why I was there. It's the second Sixfields match I've been to this season. I do not buy into the NOPM theory, although commend those who advocate it. I also went with my daughter, who hasn't been to see her Sky Blues since the Sheff Utd match. She is deeply passionate about the club at a very young age. That is in danger of evaporating. I won't let that happen because a few angry people on a forum say they don't agree with it. That fact I even feel the need to justify going to watch the team I have supported since I was a boy with my daughter to other supporters of the team deeply saddens me. Please take ownership of this divide you are continuing to create.

Yeah that got my goat too - my 6 year old lad would like to go as well but it's not the few angry people on the forum that have caused this issue for me and him it is the owners of the football club who have chosen to play their home games away from the City that their name uses. Realise who the enemy is here PLEASE!!

We are all supporters and I would like nothing more than to ignore the obvious and go up to the next 'not home' game but our owners have made that impossible not some internet forum individuals.

And as CCFC says 90% of the fan base are making that same choice!! Does that not say something??

 

[Spionkop]

At the other end of the age range, my 87 year old dad would love to watch the team he's supported all his life too. But he and I and my son are not going to Sixfields. Never will. It's wrong.
Willie, with due respect, take your daughter to an away game. Instead of that dismal dump.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I'll explain why I was there. It's the second Sixfields match I've been to this season. I do not buy into the NOPM theory, although commend those who advocate it. I also went with my daughter, who hasn't been to see her Sky Blues since the Sheff Utd match. She is deeply passionate about the club at a very young age. That is in danger of evaporating. I won't let that happen because a few angry people on a forum say they don't agree with it. That fact I even feel the need to justify going to watch the team I have supported since I was a boy with my daughter to other supporters of the team deeply saddens me. Please take ownership of this divide you are continuing to create.

I would rather no one goes to Sixfields, however I'm not angry though I am determined not to yield to emotional blackmail.

 

[torchomatic]

Well, "treacherous scum" for me.

got to be the worst post ever surely?

 

[WillieStanley]

I wasn't referring to those who have chosen not to attend, I was referring to those who repeated clamber upon their high horse and ask people to justify why they go. I respect everyones stance and opinion on the matter and understand that different people deal with situations differently. We all have our own circumstances. I just went with my heart, and my heart said "Go with the girl".

I'm not going to take her to an away game. She's 4, and to be fair, whilst our away support is fantastic, it's not a family crowd. I tend to go to away matches with friends.

I'm not happy about the situation, and it was so strange being there, but my daughter had a great day and that passion is rekindling. That, to me, is more important.

Do whatever you need to, and just because I'm in the minority, does not make me wrong. Just because you're in the majority doesn't make you wrong either.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I wasn't referring to those who have chosen not to attend, I was referring to those who repeated clamber upon their high horse and ask people to justify why they go. I respect everyones stance and opinion on the matter and understand that different people deal with situations differently. We all have our own circumstances. I just went with my heart, and my heart said "Go with the girl".

I'm not going to take her to an away game. She's 4, and to be fair, whilst our away support is fantastic, it's not a family crowd. I tend to go to away matches with friends.

I'm not happy about the situation, and it was so strange being there, but my daughter had a great day and that passion is rekindling. That, to me, is more important.

Do whatever you need to, and just because I'm in the minority, does not make me wrong. Just because you're in the majority doesn't make you wrong either.

I think you're dead right about an away game being unsuitable for a 4 yr old..

 

[Otis]

I wasn't referring to those who have chosen not to attend, I was referring to those who repeated clamber upon their high horse and ask people to justify why they go. I respect everyones stance and opinion on the matter and understand that different people deal with situations differently. We all have our own circumstances. I just went with my heart, and my heart said "Go with the girl".

I'm not going to take her to an away game. She's 4, and to be fair, whilst our away support is fantastic, it's not a family crowd. I tend to go to away matches with friends.

I'm not happy about the situation, and it was so strange being there, but my daughter had a great day and that passion is rekindling. That, to me, is more important.

Do whatever you need to, and just because I'm in the minority, does not make me wrong. Just because you're in the majority doesn't make you wrong either.

I desperately want to see the City play. My daughter would absolutely love to go to, but we won't set foot in Sixfields.

The Sky Blues have been the love of my life for all my life, but I cannot bring myself to go and if the club stay away from Coventry for any length of time then they will have lost a loyal fan.

I still maintain that if no-one at all went then something would have to give on our owner's front and the club would come home back to the Ricoh.

At the end of the day the club IS the fans and without fans there is no club!

 

[italiahorse]

I wasn't referring to those who have chosen not to attend, I was referring to those who repeated clamber upon their high horse and ask people to justify why they go. I respect everyones stance and opinion on the matter and understand that different people deal with situations differently. We all have our own circumstances. I just went with my heart, and my heart said "Go with the girl".

I'm not going to take her to an away game. She's 4, and to be fair, whilst our away support is fantastic, it's not a family crowd. I tend to go to away matches with friends.

I'm not happy about the situation, and it was so strange being there, but my daughter had a great day and that passion is rekindling. That, to me, is more important.

Do whatever you need to, and just because I'm in the minority, does not make me wrong. Just because you're in the majority doesn't make you wrong either.

Passionate for football at 4 ? Unlikely but .....
Why come on and make excuses for yourself? You do realise this is the first step in an Unknown Sisu plan and they rely on you being there to justify it.
You are following it blindly without asking questions.