Butts Park Arena is new home (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

So the big plan is to run up debt?

Yes, we can make Wasps lots of money but they will let us pretend we are making it to allow SISU to loan us money for things without breaking rules.

 

---

[Paxman II]

It's all a red herring for sure.

 

[Steve.B50]

I bet it's Barker Butts Rugby club they are talking to as that is a club that used to be big but now almost dead. Outskirts of City, plenty of room.

 

[Astute]

Had the same idea to do a quick speculative photoshop and the usual bowl design of most new grounds just doesn't fit (e.g. Keepmoat). However, something with a more traditional layout like Meadow Lane would seem to be more fitting to to the constraints of the Butts Park Arena and that capacity is 20,211.

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View attachment 4795

What a great idea. it would do wonders for the 365 income. When not in use for one football club and two rugger clubs it could double as a train station as it is more or less on the train line. The income could go towards constantly relaying the pitch.

 

[skybluetony176]

I bet it's Barker Butts Rugby club they are talking to as that is a club that used to be big but now almost dead. Outskirts of City, plenty of room.

I think someone just read your post and repeated it on the sky blue phone in.

 

[oldfiver]

Had the same idea to do a quick speculative photoshop and the usual bowl design of most new grounds just doesn't fit (e.g. Keepmoat). However, something with a more traditional layout like Meadow Lane would seem to be more fitting to to the constraints of the Butts Park Arena and that capacity is 20,211.

​

View attachment 4795

Have you passed this by OSB in his new role as Chief Planning Officer?

 

[oldfiver]

It's not allowed to be debt is it? Doesn't it have to be put in as equity?

Either a complete gift or equity. Then it can be added to "normal turnover" figures

 

[RegTheDonk]

It's not going to happen. I think the majority of people know that. We'd all love an inner City ground but the Butts isn't going to be it.

I thinks it's just something SISU think they can use as a bargaining tool when it comes to negotiating a new lease at the Wasps ground.

I agree whole heatedly with you chap.

All we need now is for that prat Byng to say there's a railway line next to the Butts and he's got some Chinese blokes looking at developing a new station called "The Sky Blue Butts".

 

[oldfiver]

I agree whole heatedly with you chap.

All we need now is for that prat Byng to say there's a railway line next to the Butts and he's got some Chinese blokes looking at developing a new station called "The Sky Blue Butts".

Hundreds of chinese blokes always wandering around red square in Earl Street

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

I think someone just read your post and repeated it on the sky blue phone in.

No heard about this couple of days ago

 

[skybluetony176]

No heard about this couple of days ago

Haha. Should have guessed it was you.

I believe you

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?

Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I fully agree. But we need a ground that is good and big enough. What we need is an agreement with Wasps until we can put together a plan to take us forward. And we have not seen any plan so far that looks realistic. We have a decent chance of promotion this season especially if we get to keep Armstrong. If so even the away support will be much bigger most games. It is also said to be worth an extra 5m a season. The Ricoh situation is nowhere near ideal for us or our club. But I have seen nothing anywhere near as good so far.

Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...

And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.

Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.

Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.

And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.

So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)

Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.

And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.

But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.

But in the words of previously... where are the plans?

Until then, it's all abstract.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?

Cheers.

Four legs good.

Two legs bad.

 

[shmmeee]

No it hasn't

Our average attendance for a season has been over 30k 4 times.

Just after the last time we got promoted in fact.

During promotion from the old Division 3, our attendances jumped by more than 50% from 17k to 26k. Two seasons before that? Our average was 10.5k

These are the last comparable events to the potential of this season.

just sayin'

 

[Jack Griffin]

Four legs good.

Two legs bad.

Some minor amendments..

No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets.
No animal shall drink alcohol to excess.
No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.

 

[wingy]

You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?

i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.

park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.

Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.

it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.

Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...

And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.

Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.

Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.

And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.

So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)

Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.

And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.

But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.

But in the words of previously... where are the plans?

Until then, it's all abstract.

Good points, well put.

 

[wingy]

You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?

i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.

park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.

Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.

it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.

No heard about this couple of days ago

Broadstreet to Barkers
CCFC. to Broadstreet could add up.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Broadstreet to Barkers
CCFC. to Broadstreet could add up.

Isn't that too small as well really?

Would have no excuse for not going, mind

 

[wingy]

You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?

i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.

park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.

Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.

it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.

Isn't that too small as well really?

Would have no excuse for not going, mind

No
Huge site and more adjacent land along there.

 

[stupot07]

Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...

And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.

Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.

Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.

And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.

So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)

Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.

And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.

But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.

But in the words of previously... where are the plans?

Until then, it's all abstract.

Great post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[henry the wasp]

The BPA would be superb. I think once the Hillsborough inquest is concluded there will be a concerted effort to re-introduce standing. Capacity may not be a problem.

 

[wingy]

You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?

i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.

park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.

Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.

it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.

The BPA would be superb. I think once the Hillsborough inquest is concluded there will be a concerted effort to re-introduce standing. Capacity may not be a problem.

Interesting point.
Just had a 30 second skim on Car parking Investments.
Might be worth them making a purchase of one of the multi storeys close by
Would take a huge Investment Initially but the returns are great 60% over the first five years

 

[wingy]

O- Oh
The gremlins are back apologies Hobo,I think that's the third time.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The BPA would be superb. I think once the Hillsborough inquest is concluded there will be a concerted effort to re-introduce standing. Capacity may not be a problem.

Hadn't thought of that. It's a bit hypocritical the approach to standing anyway. FC Utd's new ground contains a decent sized terrace, are non or lower league football fans immune to crush situations?

 

[henry the wasp]

Yeah, it's bizarre?
Our only problem will be when we get in the champions league. Going to be a lot of unhappy people without tickets.

 

[Astute]

Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...

And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.

Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.

Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.

And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.

So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)

Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.

And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.

But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.

But in the words of previously... where are the plans?

Until then, it's all abstract.

No problem with quoting me. Some people do it frequently

Good post. I agree with it all. Maybe except for spending millions on a temporary home.

I can see this thread keeping me amused on a long night shift

 

[Astute]

Hadn't thought of that. It's a bit hypocritical the approach to standing anyway. FC Utd's new ground contains a decent sized terrace, are non or lower league football fans immune to crush situations?

I think it is more to do with lower division clubs having lower gates and less money to improve stadiums. IIRC clubs have 3 years to make their stadiums all seater once they reach the Championship. But there has been talk about allowing them again.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think it is more to do with lower division clubs having lower gates and less money to improve stadiums. IIRC clubs have 3 years to make their stadiums all seater once they reach the Championship. But there has been talk about allowing them again.

Yes but it isn't inconceivable that you could pack a tiny terrace for a big game, only clubs manage ticket sales a lot better now. Terraces were never ever the problem though anyway

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

If standing is reintroduced it will be safe standing with limited capacity and only within specific small areas of the stadium

 

[Calista]

I’ve just noticed that the Butts site has one huge advantage that no other could possibly match - the Local Government Ombudsman’s office is quite literally next door

So this time around, the running disputes with our Council landlords could be sorted out on the spot, without recourse to High Court judges.

 

[ccfcway]

Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?

Cheers.

the Butts is small
the Ricoh is far away

 

[Astute]

Butts is too small.

Ricoh is too big.

 

[Gazolba]

Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?

Cheers.

Nobody knows what is going to happen but everyone has an opinion. 90% will be wrong.

 

[Otis]

the Butts is small
the Ricoh is far away

Small butt's are usually a good thing to have, but not in this case.

We are looking for much bigger butts.