Nick
Administrator
Yes, we can make Wasps lots of money but they will let us pretend we are making it to allow SISU to loan us money for things without breaking rules.
So the big plan is to run up debt?
Had the same idea to do a quick speculative photoshop and the usual bowl design of most new grounds just doesn't fit (e.g. Keepmoat). However, something with a more traditional layout like Meadow Lane would seem to be more fitting to to the constraints of the Butts Park Arena and that capacity is 20,211.View attachment 4795
I bet it's Barker Butts Rugby club they are talking to as that is a club that used to be big but now almost dead. Outskirts of City, plenty of room.
Had the same idea to do a quick speculative photoshop and the usual bowl design of most new grounds just doesn't fit (e.g. Keepmoat). However, something with a more traditional layout like Meadow Lane would seem to be more fitting to to the constraints of the Butts Park Arena and that capacity is 20,211.View attachment 4795
It's not allowed to be debt is it? Doesn't it have to be put in as equity?
It's not going to happen. I think the majority of people know that. We'd all love an inner City ground but the Butts isn't going to be it.
I thinks it's just something SISU think they can use as a bargaining tool when it comes to negotiating a new lease at the Wasps ground.
I agree whole heatedly with you chap.
All we need now is for that prat Byng to say there's a railway line next to the Butts and he's got some Chinese blokes looking at developing a new station called "The Sky Blue Butts".
I think someone just read your post and repeated it on the sky blue phone in.
No heard about this couple of days ago
I fully agree. But we need a ground that is good and big enough. What we need is an agreement with Wasps until we can put together a plan to take us forward. And we have not seen any plan so far that looks realistic. We have a decent chance of promotion this season especially if we get to keep Armstrong. If so even the away support will be much bigger most games. It is also said to be worth an extra 5m a season. The Ricoh situation is nowhere near ideal for us or our club. But I have seen nothing anywhere near as good so far.
Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?
Cheers.
No it hasn't
Four legs good.
Two legs bad.
You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?
i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.
park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.
Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.
it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.
Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...
And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.
Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.
Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.
And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.
So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)
Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.
And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.
But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.
But in the words of previously... where are the plans?
Until then, it's all abstract.
You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?
i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.
park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.
Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.
it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.
No heard about this couple of days ago
Broadstreet to Barkers
CCFC. to Broadstreet could add up.
You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?
i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.
park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.
Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.
it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.
Isn't that too small as well really?
Would have no excuse for not going, mind
Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...
And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.
Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.
Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.
And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.
So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)
Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.
And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.
But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.
But in the words of previously... where are the plans?
Until then, it's all abstract.
You mean like how we could have bought the derelict boozer over the road when we were at Highfield Road?
i watch rugby at the Butts. You could expand to 12000, 15000 at a push but there would be no car parking.
park and ride Memorial Park full. City car parks pretty full on Saturdays.
Fair Ground available some of the year. Hearsall Common, having grown up in the area and played football on it, water logged most of the winter.
Spon End Estate is ripe for development though, as is the flats in Hillfields.
it would need the Spon End Estate land to be made available for a new stadium build to work. I think the club need a 20000 capacity with ability to expand.
The BPA would be superb. I think once the Hillsborough inquest is concluded there will be a concerted effort to re-introduce standing. Capacity may not be a problem.
Hadn't thought of that. It's a bit hypocritical the approach to standing anyway. FC Utd's new ground contains a decent sized terrace, are non or lower league football fans immune to crush situations?The BPA would be superb. I think once the Hillsborough inquest is concluded there will be a concerted effort to re-introduce standing. Capacity may not be a problem.
Apologies for quoting yours out of all of them, but I came to here and decided to add my own tuppeneth...
And in the main, I can't argue against this post generally. It does provoke me to a few left-field observations however.
Firstly the obvious. I'm no stadium designer any more than I was a stadium financier. If 20k is possible on the site, it'd be handy to see some actual plans... don't want to know about the lower capacities, 20k has to be the minimum really (and even then I'd like to head for 25k in an ideal world) - suppose I could accept lower temporarily as long as it was the first phase and we *would* hit 20k.
Anyway, until then, probably have to concur that it seems improbable to be able to fit a decent sized ground on there. I'm not a fan of the endless financial arguments myself, it always seems like we engage on SISU terms when we do that. Personally I'm more keen on identity, community, club and place at one... Butts fits that for sure.
And then I think of Brighton (already cited) on this thread. The Withdean was bleak, tough... but ultimately it may have paved the way for where they are now. The restricted capacity and them against the world made games an event, made it a challenge to get tickets... meant people had to buy early. We don't have that, so our demand slips and we get 12k when we sell tickets dirt cheap.
So... the Butts as a temporary solution at 12k until we actually find a decent sized ground, I could live with more easily. If games get sold out it builds up the pressure-cooker of demand, means people rush to buy earlier, means prices can be higher. (and yes, I acknowledge it's a shame that our owners would undoubtedly cock up actually *selling* the tickets, so instead of eager anticipation there'd be RAGE)
Then, when you move to your proper ground, you get proper gates, like Brighton did.
And yes, 12k-15k has a glass celiling too. If it's Butts v Ricoh it seems the ultimate answer is probably... neither. But in terms of long term gain in terms of identity, community, fostering a relationship with the place a club comes from... the Butts wins for me.
But it wouldn't release the pressure to actually find a new ground, unless in that period something changed to allow the ground to expand... unless the plans fitted together.
But in the words of previously... where are the plans?
Until then, it's all abstract.
Hadn't thought of that. It's a bit hypocritical the approach to standing anyway. FC Utd's new ground contains a decent sized terrace, are non or lower league football fans immune to crush situations?
Yes but it isn't inconceivable that you could pack a tiny terrace for a big game, only clubs manage ticket sales a lot better now. Terraces were never ever the problem though anywayI think it is more to do with lower division clubs having lower gates and less money to improve stadiums. IIRC clubs have 3 years to make their stadiums all seater once they reach the Championship. But there has been talk about allowing them again.
Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?
Cheers.
Anyone want to summarise 50 pages for me to save me a bit of time?
Cheers.
Small butt's are usually a good thing to have, but not in this case.the Butts is small
the Ricoh is far away
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