Butts park arena? (4 Viewers)

[skybluejelly]

We make a pile of money as there would be sellouts every week. The demand for tickets would hopefully be huge and we may even have a waiting list for season tickets. Sounds good to me. Can't see what the issue is.

Yep absolutely ... The law of supply and demand ... However we have to get there first... Can you ever imagine a waiting list for season tickets at coventry

 

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[lifeskyblue]

Which clubs are ACTIVELY expanding capacity, not WANT, but actually doing it?

Well West Ham by moving have increased capacity. Spurs will be building shortly. I understand man city and Liverpool and Everton will be starting work shortly. Ok they are all premiership but that's where we want to be. Also Leicester want and I strongly suspect will be expanding. The club owners and council have a good understanding

 

[Nick]

The council are stopping us signing up to a long term rent deal at the Ricoh

Can you explain that email then?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

8 miles would be inside the city boundary.

It also emerged during the meeting that the Football League has told the club it should pursue sites within eight miles of Earl Street, in Coventry city centre.

Any prospect of building a new stadium within Coventry’s boundary was completely ruled out during the meeting – with unproven allegations of wrongdoing against Coventry City Council cited as the reason for that.

 

[Nick]

Any prospect of building a new stadium within Coventry’s boundary was completely ruled out during the meeting – with unproven allegations of wrongdoing against Coventry City Council cited as the reason for that.

Do you mean like trying to block moves?

Aren't they trying to think outside the box within 8 miles?

 

[Grendel]

It also emerged during the meeting that the Football League has told the club it should pursue sites within eight miles of Earl Street, in Coventry city centre.

Any prospect of building a new stadium within Coventry’s boundary was completely ruled out during the meeting – with unproven allegations of wrongdoing against Coventry City Council cited as the reason for that.

Getting desperate now

 

[chiefdave]

Any prospect of building a new stadium within Coventry’s boundary was completely ruled out during the meeting – with unproven allegations of wrongdoing against Coventry City Council cited as the reason for that.

It wouldn't be a new stadium, it would be expansion of an existing stadium.

 

[Winny the Bish]

Burnley literally just won the Championship while averaging around 16-18,000 a game. They don't have mega-rich owners pumping tens of millions into the club.
Don't understand the argument about a 15-25,000 capacity holding us back.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Suggest you read the other posts then that say its a good or great idea rather than trying to twist my words in order to make another pointless contribution

Nothing wrong with asking questions far more constructive than childish name calling and derogatory comments

Twisting words is his favourite pastime OSB58

 

[Nick]

New Council Leader has said he wants all legal action dropped before any talks with the club...

I have no comment whatsoever to make on what business the two clubs are doing together.

What I will say is that there has to be an end to the legal actions.

All judicial reviews have got to go and all costs have got to be paid.

That will be a pre-requisite for opening up any sort of dialogue

 

[dongonzalos]

Because obviously if we have real success it won't be enough. It won't be anywhere near enough to compete at a high enough level.

15,000 will see us to the Championship, but then we would struggle to make any dent on that.

So many clubs are expanding. We need much bigger than 15,000. To me that is blatantly obvious.

Otis, it's obvious what you are saying.
Grendel just wants the fans to be charged huge prices if that happens
So don't waste your time.
To be fair a proper full season run at the top of the tabke this season would show 15k is not enough

 

[dongonzalos]

New Council Leader has said he wants all legal action dropped before any talks with the club...

That would save SISU a lot of money to be fair

 

[torchomatic]

New leader of CCC says all legal action must be dropped first before any discussions take place.

 

[dongonzalos]

All irrelevant as Coventry City haven't managed an average attendance of 25k or more since 1971, and in the last 25 years have had an average in excess of 20k on just 5 occasions, that's with an away allocation of circa 6k at the Ricoh and 4k at HR.

Other than an FA cup win
We haven't had any success since then either

 

[Brylowes]

It could well be a bluff and posturing, but then you have to wonder what CRFC will get out of it?

Do they want something off Wasps / The Council too?

Are the council looking into the promises made but CRFC haven't heard anything about yet after they used that as a seller?

Isn't the guy J Sharp from CRFC trying to obtain the main lease (or whatever it's called)
From the guy it rests with, who lives in New York. Sure I read somewhere he's been
After it for a long time, maybe he will only sign it over if J S can demonstrate he's making
Positive moves to safeguard CRFC's future.
Don't think there's any chance of this happening, but whatever SISU's reasons for getting
Involved, if I were Mr Sharp I would think long and hard before getting involved with them.

 

[stupot07]

New leader of CCC says all legal action must be dropped first before any discussions take place.

Discussions about the Butts?

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[torchomatic]

Discussions about the Butts?

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Yep, seems so.

 

[Nick]

Discussions about the Butts?

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Yeah, it seems so.

So drop all legal action, then get planning refused or the old thing about no footbal lthere.

 

[skybluetony176]

But as ever, we're getting bogged down in finances, whereas the cultural benefits are a no-brainer.

I don't disagree with the cultural benefits at all, I love the location and I could live with a capacity on 25K as that will be somewhere near the capacity of the ground most of us didn't want to leave in the first place. But lets not kid ourselves that this will be done for cultural reasons. This will or should be done for financial reasons. It has to stack up and offer some degree of future proofing in the process. We need capacity for that so why not build to capacity in the first place? I'm not sure that option is realistic. From what Jon Sharp has said it sounds like he has first and final say on the development and he isn't talking like someone with the ambition to expand the ground from 15K to 25K. Yet again our future is in someone else's hands. If it's different to this the club need to be telling us. In detail.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

It wouldn't be a new stadium, it would be expansion of an existing stadium.

I'd go and have a sit down if I were you Dave.... I said "Original flounce" by Fisher on leaving for Northampton. The Football League told SISU any "New Stadium" had to be built within 8 miles of Earl Street, which if I'm not mistaken is in the centre of Coventry. Those quotes I've made are from the time of leaving the Ricoh.

 

[chiefdave]

New Council Leader has said he wants all legal action dropped before any talks with the club...

What is the matter with these people. Why can't he just say the same as the other chap, lets get together and have a chat.

Like I said the other day, if they talk they might find a way forward that works all round. That's the point to start talking about knocking the legals on the head.

 

[tisza]

Burnley literally just won the Championship while averaging around 16-18,000 a game. They don't have mega-rich owners pumping tens of millions into the club.
Don't understand the argument about a 15-25,000 capacity holding us back.

no. Burnley's 1st promotion was a massive gamble on a huge wage bill. (Anyone remember Paul Fletcher!!).
What they have done well is utilize subsequent parachute payments to fund a huge wage bill that couldn't be funded by stadium revenues alone.

 

[torchomatic]

What is the matter with these people. Why can't he just say the same as the other chap, lets get together and have a chat.

Like I said the other day, if they talk they might find a way forward that works all round. That's the point to start talking about knocking the legals on the head.

It seems like they're setting themselves up to be the good guys here if it all goes tits up. "Well, we were prepared to talk but...."

 

[Nick]

It seems like they're setting themselves up to be the good guys here if it all goes tits up. "Well, we were prepared to talk but...."

Seems like it, can't see any mention of that email they sent before?

What's to say if the legals get dropped they will help then?

 

[Hobo]

Just a bit of caution on this. Coventry Rugby have made some bold decisions in recent months and there are possibly exciting times ahead. But some fans needed appeasing going into last night's meeting. They are selling a vision of moving the club forward and the possibilities.

I admit there are things to like about the prospects, but I think fans on both sides would be right to have reservations.

It is worth exploring the possibilities, but it has to be right for both clubs. Early days don't get too excited.

 

[italiahorse]

It wont be done anytime soon but if it is not a bluff and they are serious about closer to 15k stadium why not see what happens at the end next season IF we get promoted, i dont mind a 15k stadium long as can be extended to 25k but we need badly be promoted in next 2 seasons.

Please read other thread

How many parking spaces are there at the Emirates or the Etihad for example (I have no idea but not a huge amount I'd suggest). It seems like people are trying to create issues for us that haven't been a problem for anyone else.

They have an underground. They can park anywhere outside London and train in.

 

[Samo]

PLANS to move Coventry City Football Club to a redeveloped home of Coventry rugby club at the Butts have been announced.

We exclusively revealed in November that the Coventry site identified by the Sky Blues for a stadium with potentially over 20,000 capacity was the Butts Park Arena home of Cov rugby.

But it is believed the plans would also need the support and approval of Coventry City Council, the freehold owner of the Butts Park Arena site, for which Cov rugby club chairman Jon Sharp is seeking to acquire a head lease.

We can exclusively reveal today the council wrote to Cov rugby club in January seeking to block the proposal with a legal clause – a restrictive covenant – to prevent professional football being played at a redeveloped Butts Park Arena stadium – so the council could “protect its position”.

It is not known whether the council’s position over a new sporting venture in the city centre – which aims to ensure the survival of two of the city’s great sporting institutions – will soften under new leader George Duggins.

Coventry council has long said the Ricoh Arena project in the north of Coventry is important to the city’s economy.

But it has also since 2014 been developing a so-called ‘City Centre First’ strategy in which a rejuvenated city centre would drive the city’s future economy.

Mr Sharp told the rugby club’s fans about the until now confidential latest redevelopment proposals at a fans’ forum meeting last night, and spoke exclusively with the Coventry Observer today.

As we first revealed in November, proposals are being examined for the two threatened traditional city clubs to redevelop the Butts, and groundshare under a ‘Coventry Sporting’ Joint Venture designed to ensure their future survival and success.

The football club, a mere tenant at the Ricoh Arena and deprived on commercial revenue from the stadium, would benefit from both matchday revenues beyond current ticket revenues at a redeveloped Butts, and from non-matchday revenues. So too would Cov rugby club.

Cov rugby could also benefit from greater access to financing for the stadium’s redevelopment under the joint venture.

Many Coventry City fans have insisted any new stadium should be inside the city’s borders, not in Warwickshire.

The football club and its owners Sisu have consistently said it vitally needs commercial revenue from a stadium to be viable and invest in Tony Mowbray’s team – rather than continuing to rent at the Ricoh Arena.

Revenues from commercial activities including events and conferences at the Ricoh Arena go instead to its owners, rugby club Wasps.

The Sky Blues’ Ricoh home – which had partly depended on the club’s money – was sold by former owners the council and Alan Edward Higgs Charity in October 2014 to the indebted former London rugby club on a secret 250-year deal not offered to the football club.

Wasps, with reported debts of £35million, stated on its website at the time it needed the Ricoh move and stadium revenue streams to prevent it going bust.

Mr Sharp confirmed in December on BBC Coventry and Warwickshire following our exclusive that the Sky Blues had examined the Butts relocation, but said there were no “current plans”.

The redevelopment plans would first require the imminent transfer to him of the Butts’ site’s 125-year head lease. The rugby club currently holds a sub-lease.

He said in December he was closing in on the deal with Chris Millerchip, a former Cov rugby player now living in New York. who currently holds the wider Butts Park Arena site’s lease from Coventry City Council.

That transaction is still expected to be completed imminently.

Mr Sharp told the Coventry Observer today the first stage was to complete a feasibility study for the redevelopment and groundshare, and that architects were currently engaged. The second stage would be to examine financing.

He told us today one possibility was for two new stands to be built in the first instance, with a potential initial capacity of 15,000. The ground currently has one stand and a 4,000 capacity.

He added it was also possible that the ground could be expanded by increments depending on growth and demand, notably were Coventry City Football Club to win promotions.

He said one concern was that the football club’s desire for a 25,000 stadium may be considered too large for Coventry rugby club present crowds, but said nothing was ruled out.

The plan is also to join the two club’s academies in a scheme for the whole community. Academy facilities would be based off-site, said Mr Sharp.

Coventry United Football Club could also be involved in the groundshare, he added.

He told fans last night any final decision would rest with the rugby club’s board.

We revealed in November the Sky Blues considered the current 4,000-capacity Butts stadium could be redeveloped to initially 12,000 to 15,000, then upwards to over 20,000.

Such gates would be above average attendances at the former Highfield Road stadium even in the club’s Premiership years.

Mr Sharp revealed in December there was potential for development on a larger area of land than the current Butts stadium footprint. Some have questioned whether transport and parking arrangements would be adequate.

Coventry City Council would have to grant planning consent in the first instance, but the government could intervene in any final planning decision.

The Coventry Observer also exclusively revealed in December that Coventry City had agreed to extend the current Ricoh rent agreement for a further two years beyond the season just ended – while it considered its future options while Ricoh talks continued.

No offers have emerged for the football club to share ownership or revenues at the Ricoh with its Wasps owners, despite CCFC executive Chris Anderson saying such a deal had not been ruled out, apparently contradicting the view of the club’s owners.

The restrictive covenant previously sought by the council would prevent any professional football being played at the stadium for the entire period of the lease.

The proposed restrictive covenant also explicitly stated that a professional football club’s training activities could not take place there either.

It is not clear whether, despite the threat to do so, the council would have the power to insist on such a restrictive covenant.

No such conditions were placed by the council on the Ricoh’s sale to Wasps. The deal also saw the collapsing of a ‘buy back’ option for the Sky Blues to purchase the charity’s shares in Ricoh operating company Arena Coventry Limited.

It follows an ongoing long running and acrimonious legal dispute between the council and the Sky Blues’ owners over Ricoh Arena ownership, revenue and rent.

Appeal judges last week ruled a council £14million taxpayer bailout of the Ricoh in January 2013 was not unlawful. Further action by the club over the Wasps deal could follow.

They really hate our club don't they? They can't see that the damage they are doing will last a lot longer than SISU's ownership. Bastards.

 

[Nick]

They really hate our club don't they? They can't see that the damage they are doing will last a lot longer than SISU's ownership. Bastards.

There's a copy of the email later on

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

no. Burnley's 1st promotion was a massive gamble on a huge wage bill. (Anyone remember Paul Fletcher!!).
What they have done well is utilize subsequent parachute payments to fund a huge wage bill that couldn't be funded by stadium revenues alone.

I think Burnley also sold their training ground to the chairman to raise funds and then when promoted he sold it back to the club at a massive profit.

 

[Winny the Bish]

no. Burnley's 1st promotion was a massive gamble on a huge wage bill. (Anyone remember Paul Fletcher!!).
What they have done well is utilize subsequent parachute payments to fund a huge wage bill that couldn't be funded by stadium revenues alone.

Please tell me in which of these seasons they spent massively?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Burnley_F.C._season#Transfers - paid fees for 4 players and still had a very average squad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Burnley_F.C._season#Transfers - spent a fee on a grand total of one player.

 

[Otis]

And of course we regularly hear the 'we should never have left HR' line. Capacity at HR was 23,489.

But as I say, NOW the trend is to expand. Wasn't back then for the majority of clubs.

 

[italiahorse]

Italia SBK and Senior Thick aren't too chuffed to be fair. Tony says he's unsure that moving into a stadium owned by a rugby club may be right for "his" team, OSB has concerns on parking (rather odd given there is nowhere to park at the Ricoh) and dongle is avoiding all questions on the councils apparent attempt to strangle at birth this concept.

Everyone else seems on board.

We want a plan that gives us what we want as CCFC fans, not a plan that gets us away from the Ricoh at all costs.
You follow aimlessly if you want but I'll wait for a plan.
It's all deflection by Sisu and the usual skittles are yet again lining up and enthusiastically slobbering waiting for Sisu to throw them a ball.

 

[Otis]

Championship attendance as a % of their capacity, 25K more than big enough for the championship.

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Yep, agree. Word is here though that it will be considerably less than 25,000.

And if it were to be 15,000 that would be the third lowest capacity in the division.

 

[Nick]

We want a plan that gives us what we want as CCFC fans, not a plan that gets us away from the Ricoh at all costs.
You follow aimlessly if you want but I'll wait for a plan.
It's all deflection by Sisu and the usual skittles are yet again lining up and enthusiastically slobbering waiting for Sisu to throw them a ball.

If it's sisu , why are cov rfc making the announcement? What's in it for them?

 

[Hobo]

But as I say, NOW the trend is to expand. Wasn't back then for the majority of clubs.

Perhaps we were ahead of the game. HR had great memories but it wasn't a great ground, sorry.