Climate change and activists (5 Viewers)

[NorthernWisdom]

Would it fuck - again you look at things from you personally - most people can’t work from home

He's not wrong about the need for better public transport mind you. Cov to Warwick for me takes hours by public transport but it's not that far away really, is it. I've done it by bus and train a few times but I have to set off at some ridiculous time of the morning to get in on time!

 

---

[Nick]

Well with proper public transport and more WFH it would be

Next up on the dreamworld scenarios...

Am I going to have a 20 minute drive in the morning with aircon or am I going to get 3 buses? Are they going to lay me on a bus to go direct to where I need to go (including the drop off which takes me right out the way of the normal bus routes?)

Makes me wonder if people ever go out in the real world much.

 

[Grendel]

He's not wrong about the need for better public transport mind you. Cov to Warwick for me takes hours by public transport but it's not that far away really, is it. I've one it by bus and train a few times but I have to set off at some ridiculous time of the morning to get in on time!

Better transport and not driving cars aren’t the same thing

Some dimwit was on the news the other day saying scrap the car and make bikes the priority

 

[Grendel]

Next up on the dreamworld scenarios...

Am I going to have a 20 minute drive in the morning with aircon or am I going to get 3 buses? Are they going to lay me on a bus to go direct to where I need to go (including the drop off which takes me right out the way of the normal bus routes?)

Makes me wonder if people ever go out in the real world much.

Its incredible

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Would it fuck - again you look at things from you personally - most people can’t work from home

Erm nor can I? The point is the climate's close to the point of no return and drastic lifestyle changes combined with a serious attitude shift in the world's worst offenders are what's needed. If it's essential to drive then as I also said there should be incentives for people to stop using petrol/diesel and use electric cars powered by more sustainable energy sources on the grid.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Better transport and not driving cars aren’t the same thing

It helps though doesn't it. If I could go half the week by public transport, that'd be a start. Ditto about bikes, if there were some non lethal way to cycle it, it'd be cheaper and help my fitness levels too. A bit better planning would set us off in the right direction.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Next up on the dreamworld scenarios...

Am I going to have a 20 minute drive in the morning with aircon or am I going to get 3 buses? Are they going to lay me on a bus to go direct to where I need to go (including the drop off which takes me right out the way of the normal bus routes?)

Makes me wonder if people ever go out in the real world much.

Shuttle buses taking people to their workplace have been a thing for years. You do get I'm not holding you personally responsible for climate change right? It needs to be made easier for people to make the lifestyle changes needed to wean off burning fuels.

I mean we still use a gas boiler because we can't afford the 5 figure cost of a heat pump.

 

[Grendel]

Erm nor can I? The point is the climate's close to the point of no return and drastic lifestyle changes combined with a serious attitude shift in the world's worst offenders are what's needed. If it's essential to drive then as I also said there should be incentives for people to stop using petrol/diesel and use electric cars powered by more sustainable energy sources on the grid.

you don’t drive do you? So again don’t care as I’m alright Jack

Great and most working class people have to work and now you expect them to get buses trains bikes and give their cars up as the cost to upgrade even with Any support is impossible (and no supply)

Weren’t you saying the other year you needed your holiday to Greece - did you walk?

 

[skybluetony176]

So easy for people to just stop driving

For a lot of people it would be. We went from two cars to one a few years ago quite successfully. My wife can’t give up driving for various reasons and as we only have one car now my car use is at least 80% less than it was previously and if I am driving somewhere it’s usually with 2 adults and 2 kids in the car. Even then we’ve started using public transport more. Been to Birmingham as a family a few times in the last year by train when we previously would have driven. If the connectivity is there and the timings work we’ll use public transport. Not always possible but possible more than people think if you look into it.

 

[Grendel]

Shuttle buses taking people to their workplace have been a thing for years. You do get I'm not holding you personally responsible for climate change right? It needs to be made easier for people to make the lifestyle changes needed to wean off burning fuels.

I mean we still use a gas boiler because we can't afford the 5 figure cost of a heat pump.

So an SME with 20 employees who live all over the city and beyond can buy some shuttle buses

Jesus Christ

 

[Nick]

Shuttle buses taking people to their workplace have been a thing for years. You do get I'm not holding you personally responsible for climate change right? It needs to be made easier for people to make the lifestyle changes needed to wean off burning fuels.

I mean we still use a gas boiler because we can't afford the 5 figure cost of a heat pump.

Again, you are assuming every company has loads of employees that live in the same area. (or loads of employees full stop)

It works OK when you are going somewhere like JLR from town where hundreds of people will be finishing at the same time from a shift and generally going to the same place.

Back in the real world, it just doesn't happen like that. If you want to get an electric bus to come and pick me up from my door, make any stops I need to and then drop me at work then happy days.

 

[Grendel]

I’m also not sure what being vegetarian will achieve

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

you don’t drive do you? So again don’t care as I’m alright Jack

Great and most working class people have to work and now you expect them to get buses trains bikes and give their cars up as the cost to upgrade even with Any support is impossible (and no supply)

Weren’t you saying the other year you needed your holiday to Greece - did you walk?

So an SME with 20 employees who live all over the city and beyond can buy some shuttle buses

Jesus Christ

You jump to extremes very quickly my friend.

Do you agree in principle that we as a society need to wean off our reliance on burning carbon for transport and energy? If you do the question really is what can be done about it to make that easier. Even if transport were non-negotiable, eating fewer meat and animal products is something anyone could do and at reduced cost.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m also not sure what being vegetarian will achieve

Eliminate the CO2 equivalent emissions caused by raising and processing livestock. Clearing land, emissions from the animals themselves etc-beef is by far the biggest culprit

 

[Grendel]

You jump to extremes very quickly my friend.

Do you agree in principle that we as a society need to wean off our reliance on burning carbon for transport and energy? If you do the question really is what can be done about it to make that easier. Even if transport were non-negotiable, eating fewer meat and animal products is something anyone could do and at reduced cost.

I don’t jump to extremes at all - coming up with impractical and stupid ideas that as @Nick says makes you so out of touch it’s almost Reese-Mogg levels of unrealism

The biggest issue with animal emissions isn’t meat consumption per se either

 

[Grendel]

Eliminate the CO2 equivalent emissions caused by raising and processing livestock. Clearing land, emissions from the animals themselves etc-beef is by far the biggest culprit

So you mean vegan not vegetarian?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I’m also not sure what being vegetarian will achieve

I risk stirring things up, but I do wonder with a lot of things how practical they are when scaled up - do they only work when small scale? Same with electric cars - you're effectively proucing the power twice, which seems pretty inefficient, you're encouraging disposal of them by leasing the batteries, and as it stands if we all plug our cars in at 6pm after work, they national grid will blow up!

Top Gear actually did a relatively sane piece the other week (I know!) about the power sources, and I'd always thought hydrogen was the way to go. I don't know enough about the synthetic fuel they've developed, and how much pollution it causes to produce it but, it could also be the answer.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've seen suggestion that the activists are planted

Next up on the dreamworld scenarios...

Am I going to have a 20 minute drive in the morning with aircon or am I going to get 3 buses? Are they going to lay me on a bus to go direct to where I need to go (including the drop off which takes me right out the way of the normal bus routes?)

Makes me wonder if people ever go out in the real world much.

The point is that you shouldn't need to take 3 buses, a proper public transport system should be designed as a public service not one that just cherry picks profitable routes. I don't disagree that is is often impractical to use public transport and neither does Brighton.

 

[Nick]

I risk stirring things up, but I do wonder with a lot of things how practical they are when scaled up - do they only work when small scale? Same with electric cars - you're effectively proucing the power twice, which seems pretty inefficient, you're encouraging disposal of them by leasing the batteries, and as it stands if we all plug our cars in at 6pm after work, they national grid will blow up!

Top Gear actually did a relatively sane piece the other week (I know!) about the power sources, and I'd always thought hydrogen was the way to go. I don't know enough about the synthetric fuel they've developed, and how much pollution it causes to produce it but, it could also be the answer.

The chuckle brothers had it right with their pedal car.

 

[Grendel]

I risk stirring things up, but I do wonder with a lot of things how practical they are when scaled up - do they only work when small scale? Same with electric cars - you're effectively proucing the power twice, which seems pretty inefficient, you're encouraging disposal of them by leasing the batteries, and as it stands if we all plug our cars in at 6pm after work, they national grid will blow up!

Top Gear actually did a relatively sane piece the other week (I know!) about the power sources, and I'd always thought hydrogen was the way to go. I don't know enough about the synthetric fuel they've developed, and how much pollution it causes to produce it but, it could also be the answer.

oh electric cars will damage the environment - air conditioning in businesses as well

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t jump to extremes at all - coming up with impractical and stupid ideas that as @Nick says makes you so out of touch it’s almost Reese-Mogg levels of unrealism

The biggest issue with animal emissions isn’t meat consumption per se either

So you mean vegan not vegetarian?

Vegan ideally but even vegetarian or just not beef would be a big start. I see you've not focused on the things that wouldn't involve personal inconvenience or a change on your part-which is fine.

If they seem extreme ideas well we've put the climate into an extreme place and speaking from a background not far off the issue the lifestyle and societal changes I've put down are what would make the biggest impact in the shortest time. At no point have I said the individual themselves is to blame or has to come up with all the answers themselves.

Do you accept we as a society need to drop our reliance on carbon based fuels for energy and transport?

 

[Nick]

I've seen suggestion that the activists are planted


The point is that you shouldn't need to take 3 buses, a proper public transport system should be designed as a public service not one that just cherry picks profitable routes. I don't disagree that is is often impractical to use public transport and neither does Brighton.

Oh there are routes, it's just that they are all on different ones.

Why am I going to spend 3 hours extra per day travelling?

And all of the new "bike lane" shite that has been put in around Cov just causes even more issues and traffic because of how much narrower the roads are. So if you are behind a bus, everybody is behind a bus until it gets to where it's going.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh there are routes, it's just that they are all on different ones.

Why am I going to spend 3 hours extra per day travelling?

And all of the new "bike lane" shite that has been put in around Cov just causes even more issues and traffic because of how much narrower the roads are. So if you are behind a bus, everybody is behind a bus until it gets to where it's going.

The point isn't that you should be massively inconvenienced but that it should be made easier for you to use an option that doesn't rely on you getting to work in a petrol or diesel car.

Do you agree with the principle?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Oh there are routes, it's just that they are all on different ones.

Why am I going to spend 3 hours extra per day travelling?

And all of the new "bike lane" shite that has been put in around Cov just causes even more issues and traffic because of how much narrower the roads are. So if you are behind a bus, everybody is behind a bus until it gets to where it's going.

But the point is invest in public transport, and it's not three hours extra per day. Ditto a bike lane, if it encourages people to use bikes because it's more convenient, and the bus routes are more frequent and more efficient, there are vastly less people behind them in cars waiting so queues aren't the issue they are now.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh there are routes, it's just that they are all on different ones.

Why am I going to spend 3 hours extra per day travelling?

And all of the new "bike lane" shite that has been put in around Cov just causes even more issues and traffic because of how much narrower the roads are. So if you are behind a bus, everybody is behind a bus until it gets to where it's going.

Nobody has said you're going to have to spend 3 hours extra a day travelling?

It's good that they are putting bike lanes in, get out of your car if you think it's so advantageous to cyclists

 

[skybluetony176]

So an SME with 20 employees who live all over the city and beyond can buy some shuttle buses

Jesus Christ

Why would they have to buy them? Midland Meat Packers used to bus people all around Rugby not that many years ago, they used a local coach firm to do it, no one is suggesting that they have to go nuclear and buy a coach and employ a driver.

 

[SBT]

Yeah, the same as when the Trust just wanted to get "exposure to the plight" then thought they had fixed everything every time they made it into the papers.

You could get in the paper every day if you wanted to, it doesn't mean you are going to make any difference at all to the cause. Just get back pats.

You routinely claim the media is solely responsible for whipping up all kinds of social hysteria, but you also think that getting in the paper every day makes no difference?

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m also not sure what being vegetarian will achieve

Fucking hell you’re a dumb ass. Just on the causes of deforestation alone. The biggest reason for deforestation is ground clearance to grow crops for animal feed, the second biggest is ground clearance for pasture land. If everyone went veggie we could reverse deforestation, even more so if we all went vegan.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Fucking hell you’re a dumb ass. Just on the causes of deforestation alone. The biggest reason for deforestation is ground clearance to grow crops for animal feed, the second biggest is ground clearance for pasture land. If everyone went veggie we could reverse deforestation, even more so if we all went vegan.

You think if everyone was eating a vegan diet they'd stop deforestation? They get rid of things for whatever's most profitable and don't really care if that's a cow or a carrot, so the main thing to do in that example would be to compensate people fairly for keeping their trees.

 

[Nick]

Nobody has said you're going to have to spend 3 hours extra a day travelling?

It's good that they are putting bike lanes in, get out of your car if you think it's so advantageous to cyclists

It isn't really as it's hardly used but just causes more issues.

 

[Nick]

The point isn't that you should be massively inconvenienced but that it should be made easier for you to use an option that doesn't rely on you getting to work in a petrol or diesel car.

Do you agree with the principle?

As I said, I'd love a nice electric bus to come and pick me up and take me everywhere I need to go.

It isn't happening though, is it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As I said, I'd love a nice electric bus to come and pick me up and take me everywhere I need to go.

It isn't happening though, is it?

Well with that attitude why bother doing anything difficult? Fossil fuels will run out at some point this century-what do we do then if we haven't found an alternative?

 

[Grendel]

Vegan ideally but even vegetarian or just not beef would be a big start. I see you've not focused on the things that wouldn't involve personal inconvenience or a change on your part-which is fine.

If they seem extreme ideas well we've put the climate into an extreme place and speaking from a background not far off the issue the lifestyle and societal changes I've put down are what would make the biggest impact in the shortest time. At no point have I said the individual themselves is to blame or has to come up with all the answers themselves.

Do you accept we as a society need to drop our reliance on carbon based fuels for energy and transport?

There’s no doubt we have to but the implications have to be considered

How many people would have no income if we had no car production?

 

[Grendel]

Well with that attitude why bother doing anything difficult? Fossil fuels will run out at some point this century-what do we do then if we haven't found an alternative?

There won’t be any combustion engine cars by 2050

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Next up on the dreamworld scenarios...

Am I going to have a 20 minute drive in the morning with aircon or am I going to get 3 buses? Are they going to lay me on a bus to go direct to where I need to go (including the drop off which takes me right out the way of the normal bus routes?)

Makes me wonder if people ever go out in the real world much.

To be fair, there is a service that does let you do this. I know people from work have used it. Obviously still not as quick or convenient as personal transport.

I think with car use it's more about using it unnecessarily. Like going to the shops for bits and bobs if you could walk. Some people will have to use a car for certain things, like work, while others won't need to because they live within walking/cycling distance or WFH. For example there's no way I'm doing a big shop on the bus or walking. For those that do need to use a car regularly choosing the most fuel efficient, or electric if possible, and turning off all the gadgets you can that might reduce fuel efficiency.