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Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (288 Viewers)

  • Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
  • Start date Feb 23, 2020
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,266
Debrah meedham talking sense on question time. No point uk and Israel vaccinating everyone and the rest of the world travelling in and bringing mutated virus. That’s what’s so great about the az one. The at cost nature to poorer countries offer. There should be a vaccination summit. The tory on question time was proper annoying last night
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,267
Sky Blue Pete said:
Debrah meedham talking sense on question time. No point uk and Israel vaccinating everyone and the rest of the world travelling in and bringing mutated virus. That’s what’s so great about the az one. The at cost nature to poorer countries offer. There should be a vaccination summit. The tory on question time was proper annoying last night
Click to expand...

There will probably need to be a travel ban for some time
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,268
Sky Blue Pete said:
Debrah meedham talking sense on question time. No point uk and Israel vaccinating everyone and the rest of the world travelling in and bringing mutated virus. That’s what’s so great about the az one. The at cost nature to poorer countries offer. There should be a vaccination summit. The tory on question time was proper annoying last night
Click to expand...

who's going to a Kibbutz for the Cov fortnight?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,269
fernandopartridge said:
Individual state you mean not company?
Click to expand...

at work, typoed countries
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,270
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Apparently they've privately ordered millions more Pfizer doses?
Click to expand...

You might well be right. I remember reading this a while ago, posted the link for reference.

"At a meeting with EU diplomats in July, a Commission official said the EU had declined an offer of 500 million doses from Pfizer and BioNTech because it was too expensive, an internal EU document seen by Reuters shows."

EU to order more Pfizer vaccine after declining earlier offer

The European Union will take up its option to buy up to 100 million more doses of Pfizer and BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine after turning down an opportunity in July for a much bigger deal, according to EU officials and an internal document.
www.reuters.com
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,271
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You might well be right. I remember reading this a while ago, posted the link for reference.

"At a meeting with EU diplomats in July, a Commission official said the EU had declined an offer of 500 million doses from Pfizer and BioNTech because it was too expensive, an internal EU document seen by Reuters shows."

EU to order more Pfizer vaccine after declining earlier offer

The European Union will take up its option to buy up to 100 million more doses of Pfizer and BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine after turning down an opportunity in July for a much bigger deal, according to EU officials and an internal document.
www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
That was a bad decision
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,272
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You might well be right. I remember reading this a while ago, posted the link for reference.

"At a meeting with EU diplomats in July, a Commission official said the EU had declined an offer of 500 million doses from Pfizer and BioNTech because it was too expensive, an internal EU document seen by Reuters shows."

EU to order more Pfizer vaccine after declining earlier offer

The European Union will take up its option to buy up to 100 million more doses of Pfizer and BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine after turning down an opportunity in July for a much bigger deal, according to EU officials and an internal document.
www.reuters.com
Click to expand...

I heard it mentioned on the BBC that Germany had privately made an order with Pfizer but couldn’t find confirmation. If so, it’s then a bit hypocritical to go asking the UK to forfeit some of its supply.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,273
They need to release the terms of teh contract from teh non disclosure agreement

"Von der Leyen told Deutschlandfunk radio the best-effort delivery cause in the contract was only valid as long as it was not clear whether AstraZeneca could develop a vaccine.

She said the contract contained very clear delivery amounts for December and the first three quarters of 2021, and also mentioned four production sites, two of which are in Britain.

“There are binding orders and the contract is crystal clear,” she said."
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,274
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I heard it mentioned on the BBC that Germany had privately made an order with Pfizer but couldn’t find confirmation. If so, it’s then a bit hypocritical to go asking the UK to forfeit some of its supply.
Click to expand...

The whole thing is getting nastier and nastier. I think it is best that we just stay out of it for the moment, which I think Johnson is trying to do.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,275
David O'Day said:
They need to release the terms of teh contract from teh non disclosure agreement

"Von der Leyen told Deutschlandfunk radio the best-effort delivery cause in the contract was only valid as long as it was not clear whether AstraZeneca could develop a vaccine.

She said the contract contained very clear delivery amounts for December and the first three quarters of 2021, and also mentioned four production sites, two of which are in Britain.

“There are binding orders and the contract is crystal clear,” she said."
Click to expand...

Its funny how the EU keep telling AZ to show the contract. Almost like the EU cant find there's or they want AZ to be the ones to break the NDA.

The people I feel sorry for are the people living in the eastern bloc of the EU who even if the EU gets some supplies. Would more than likely not see the vaccine due to France, Germany trying to take as many as possible.
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm and Grendel

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,276
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The whole thing is getting nastier and nastier. I think it is best that we just stay out of it for the moment, which I think Johnson is trying to do.
Click to expand...
I think Johnson should step up as world leader

For a vaccination summit. Completely blindside the eu and others.

Don’t change any of our current plans but look to manage this worldwide. I’m sure the billionaires would love to use (genuinely) their spare money to pay in to vaccinate the world in as effective manner as possible
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,277
David O'Day said:
They need to release the terms of teh contract from teh non disclosure agreement

"Von der Leyen told Deutschlandfunk radio the best-effort delivery cause in the contract was only valid as long as it was not clear whether AstraZeneca could develop a vaccine.

She said the contract contained very clear delivery amounts for December and the first three quarters of 2021, and also mentioned four production sites, two of which are in Britain.

“There are binding orders and the contract is crystal clear,” she said."
Click to expand...

That makes no sense at all
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,278
jordan210 said:
Its funny how the EU keep telling AZ to show the contract. Almost like the EU cant find there's or they want AZ to be the ones to break the NDA.

The people I feel sorry for are the people living in the eastern bloc of the EU who even if the EU gets some supplies. Would more than likely not see the vaccine due to France, Germany trying to take as many as possible.
Click to expand...

If we have or if we get excess vaccines there's a massive PR opportunity here for the UK.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk, CCFCSteve and Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,279
Sky Blue Pete said:
I think Johnson should step up as world leader

For a vaccination summit. Completely blindside the eu and others.

Don’t change any of our current plans but look to manage this worldwide. I’m sure the billionaires would love to use (genuinely) their spare money to pay in to vaccinate the world in as effective manner as possible
Click to expand...
If he did that Nicola Sturgeon would start her own one but half an hour earlier
 
Reactions: MusicDating, Brylowes, SomersetSB and 2 others

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,280
clint van damme said:
If we have or if we get excess vaccines there's a massive PR opportunity here for the UK.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Maybe we need to get a Hercules painted as a giant union flag for vaccine delivery's to the EU.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,281
jordan210 said:
Indeed. Maybe we need to get a Hercules painted as a giant union flag for vaccine delivery's to the EU.
Click to expand...

Just don’t send it to Ireland then
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,282
fernandopartridge said:
That makes no sense at all
Click to expand...

It does if the contract guarantees the order. What the EU are saying is as soon as the Vaccine worked and was viable the contract became guaranteed.

Basically the EU state that the contract is only best endeavours whilst it was in development.

AZ can release the contract, the EU has said it's ok for them to do so.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,283
David O'Day said:
It does if the contract guarantees the order. What the EU are saying is as soon as the Vaccine worked and was viable the contract became guaranteed.

Basically the EU state that the contract is only best endeavours whilst it was in development.

AZ can release the contract, the EU has said it's ok for them to do so.
Click to expand...

In my view the UK should grant the release of excess supplies but I don’t believe those exist at the moment.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,284
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,285

the old Blame the UK
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,286
jordan210 said:
Click to expand...

it's redacted as AZ haven't waived their part of the ND clause
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,287
jordan210 said:
Click to expand...

Also the redacted bits appear to be cost related not supply.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,288
David O'Day said:
it's redacted as AZ haven't waived their part of the ND clause
Click to expand...

there are 40 odd pages of contract on the EU site. the commercially sensitive bit is what's blacked out.


basically this will be an argument of what does best efforts mean
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,289
David O'Day said:
"Von der Leyen told Deutschlandfunk radio
Click to expand...

It's much more fun reading this when you don't speak any German and can imagine this interview conducted by a reporter playing wah-wah guitar and beginning each question with "GET UP-AH"
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,290
jordan210 said:
there are 40 odd pages of contract on the EU site. the commercially sensitive bit is what's blacked out.


basically this will be an argument of what does best efforts mean
Click to expand...

It does say best reasonable efforts to manufacture at EU sites and that the vaccine may be supplied from non EU sites.

If that is correct the EU may have a point in the diversion of supplies from the UK. It's just AZ seem to have entered into a contract with the UK that doesn't allow that.

Have AZ agreed contracts with 2 entities that clash?
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,291
Reading that contract as well it includes the UK factories in the EU supply chain?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,292
jordan210 said:
Its funny how the EU keep telling AZ to show the contract. Almost like the EU cant find there's or they want AZ to be the ones to break the NDA.

The people I feel sorry for are the people living in the eastern bloc of the EU who even if the EU gets some supplies. Would more than likely not see the vaccine due to France, Germany trying to take as many as possible.
Click to expand...

They could call thier bluff and produce and use the Eu telling AZ to show the contract as proof they had waived the NDA.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,293
Sky Blue Pete said:
I think Johnson should step up as world leader

For a vaccination summit. Completely blindside the eu and others.

Don’t change any of our current plans but look to manage this worldwide. I’m sure the billionaires would love to use (genuinely) their spare money to pay in to vaccinate the world in as effective manner as possible
Click to expand...

 
Reactions: Brylowes and BodicoteSkyBlue

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,294
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
They could call thier bluff and produce and use the Eu telling AZ to show the contract as proof they had waived the NDA.
Click to expand...

They have published it
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,295
David O'Day said:
Reading that contract as well it includes the UK factories in the EU supply chain?
Click to expand...

Which would have been correct at the time but is obviously not correct now.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,296
David O'Day said:
It does say best reasonable efforts to manufacture at EU sites and that the vaccine may be supplied from non EU sites.

If that is correct the EU may have a point in the diversion of supplies from the UK. It's just AZ seem to have entered into a contract with the UK that doesn't allow that.

Have AZ agreed contracts with 2 entities that clash?
Click to expand...

But if our contract is on similar terms we take precendence due to ordering first.

You can have a contract saying you're getting something delivered at a certain time but if there's a backlog of orders due to production/delivery problems you ain't getting it. Most you can do is possibly sue for compensation or ask for the contract to be voided (which they aren't going to do). You can't demand yours be delivered when others that have bought on the same T&C's before you are still waiting.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,297
David O'Day said:
They have published it
Click to expand...

Just seen that.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,298
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Which would have been correct at the time but is obviously not correct now.
Click to expand...

they are separate the UK facilities and EU facilities. It says the UK is only counted as partof teh EU as per section 5.4 which is latenrative manufacturing plants
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,299
From a legal standpoint how would best effort but the EU at the head of the queue when demand worldwide far outstrips supply?

You would assume everyone else who placed orders, in some cases many months before the EU did, didn't sign up to be pushed down the queue if the EU finally got round to ordering.

Seems to boil down to the fact there is limited supply and the EU were slow to order so are behind other countries in the queue.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 29, 2021
  • #41,300
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But if our contract is on similar terms we take precendence due to ordering first.

You can have a contract saying you're getting something delivered at a certain time but if there's a backlog of orders due to production/delivery problems you ain't getting it. Most you can do is possibly sue for compensation or ask for the contract to be voided (which they aren't going to do). You can't demand yours be delivered when others that have bought on the same T&C's before you are still waiting.
Click to expand...

Their contract does seem to state the can get UK produced vaccines if clause 5.4 is triggered which the can't produce them at EU sites.

I can see why they are annoyed at AZ and sadly it's normal people who will have to pay.
 
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