Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (17 Viewers)

CCFCSteve · May 28, 2021

jordan210 said:
I know what lag is. We can only go on what data we are currently seeing.

we are a little bit in the unknown. As the vaccine may stop the lag of people testing positive to hospitalisation.

the increased rates of discharges is keeping the rate steady. So nothing to concerning at the moment.

Others on here are saying the rates are up yet that’s not true

would be interesting to see stay rates. As wonder if people are spending less time in hospital and not needing icu.
would be interesting to see stay rates. As wonder if people are spending less time in hospital and not needing icu.

I think this is correct currently, but we have to wait and see. If the average age of cases is now under 30 then unless the Indian variant is more severe for younger age groups (hopefully not) then the risk of significantly increased hospitalisations would’ve reduced greatly. By all accounts at the moment patients being admitted are younger and symptoms are less severe so they’re not ending up in ICU and being released quicker. Let’s hope it stays that way

It’s right for the government not to commit to the full reopening yet as (someone else already said, Andy I think) we’ve still got over three weeks of data to come. But fingers crossed the vaccine roll out will continue to reduce transmission and severity of illness. Logic suggests that should be the case but this has been a weird 14 months ! Ultimately the decision will come down to what risk we are happy/willing to live with (as this won’t be going away for a while yet)

oakey · May 28, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
We will have a very large proportion of the adult population at least single vaccinated and about half double vaccinated by 3 weeks’ time. In my mind that levels the playing field when summer conditions are thrown in.

Taking away the light at the end of the tunnel again will be a bridge too far for some

I'm feeling giddy on this just levelled playing field, dazzled by the aura of the recently extinguished light at the end of the tunnel, teetering on the end of this bridge.

PVA · May 28, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Some people on this thread really aren't doing themselves any favours when it comes to shifting the 'lockdown lover' labels.

Nobody on here is a lockdown lover as far as I can see. Once again you're reading what isn't there.

Do you have any examples of unacceptable media coverage?

shmmeee · May 28, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Yes, which is why we have scenarios:

View attachment 20297

No it’s not. Read the fucking paper and not some right wing preteens Twitter account FFS.

The “scenarios” are different lockdown easing methods not based on the unknowns in the data.

PVA · May 28, 2021

shmmeee said:
No it’s not. Read the fucking paper and not some right wing preteens Twitter account FFS.

The “scenarios” are different lockdown easing methods not based on the unknowns in the data.

Yep and Scenario 4 is not a million miles from the route we have taken and the line is showing only slightly under that scenario.

People just looking at graphs and coming up with narratives so that they can get angry about it

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 28, 2021

shmmeee said:
No it’s not. Read the fucking paper and not some right wing preteens Twitter account FFS.

The “scenarios” are different lockdown easing methods not based on the unknowns in the data.

Who is at risk of dying now? They've all been vaccinated.

Bang your head on the table all you want. You accuse me of reading nonsense on twitter, from what I can see you would jump off a cliff if it came from the right source.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 28, 2021

PVA said:
Yep and Scenario 4 is not a million miles from the route we have taken and the line is showing only slightly under that scenario.

People just looking at graphs and coming up with narratives so that they can get angry about it

You are the angriest person on this thread.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 28, 2021

PVA said:
Nobody on here is a lockdown lover as far as I can see. Once again you're reading what isn't there.

Do you have any examples of unacceptable media coverage?

Well you've done a good job of showcasing yourself as one yourself.

Hill posted some right above your comment, I don't need to even go and get any.

shmmeee · May 28, 2021

Also the original paper was too optimistic if anything, predicting far fewer deaths than happened.

Found this about predicting the pandemic in general:

“In early April 2020, DS and his colleagues asked 140 UK experts and more than 2,000 non-experts for quantitative predictions. Experts gave a median estimate of 30,000 Covid deaths by the end of the year, whereas the non-experts said 20,000. The truth was around 75,000; this value was in only a third of the experts’ prediction intervals and in only 10% of the non-experts’. People were both far too optimistic and confident, a common finding.”

The idea that there’s a bunch of a scare mongers out there in the science community because the mouthpiece of the business community says so is one of the more hilarious ideas of the pandemic.

PVA · May 28, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well you've done a good job of showcasing yourself as one yourself.

Hill posted some right above your comment, I don't need to even go and get any.

I'm not a lockdown lover. I'm as ready for 21st June as you or anyone else.

You just keep reading things that aren't there so you can complain about it.

Hill posted something from the Daily Mail and made the point to show how shit it is. If you're complaining about scaremongering then stop reading shit rags like the daily mail.

Can you post any unacceptable coverage from a decent source?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 28, 2021

PVA said:
I'm not a lockdown lover. I'm as ready for 21st June as you or anyone else.

You just keep reading things that aren't there so you can complain about it.

Hill posted something from the Daily Mail and made the point to show how shit it is. If you're complaining about scaremongering then stop reading shit rags like the daily mail.

Can you post any unacceptable coverage from a decent source?

The statement was that the media were producing unacceptable coverage. An article was posted by Hill which was an example of that.

I might not read the Mail, nor you, but a lot of people in this country do. Just because it triggers you doesn't mean it is discounted.

Every time someone makes a point about lifting restrictions, you are the first to jump in and push the locked doors argument.

PVA · May 28, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The statement was that the media were producing unacceptable coverage. An article was posted by Hill which was an example of that.

I might not read the Mail, nor you, but a lot of people in this country do. Just because it triggers you doesn't mean it is discounted.

Every time someone makes a point about lifting restrictions, you are the first to jump in and push the locked doors argument.

Shit papers might be putting stupid headlines out. But any decent media outlet is not. On the whole the coverage is very balanced.

And the perception in here seems to be that SAGE are scaremongering, which is ridiculous.

I'm not pushing any locked doors argument. Just pointing out that people are working themselves into a frenzy over the world being shut forever when literally nobody is saying that... except themselves. Just jumping to conclusions at graphs without properly understanding it.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 29, 2021

PVA said:
Shit papers might be putting stupid headlines out. But any decent media outlet is not. On the whole the coverage is very balanced.

And the perception in here seems to be that SAGE are scaremongering, which is ridiculous.

I'm not pushing any locked doors argument. Just pointing out that people are working themselves into a frenzy over the world being shut forever when literally nobody is saying that... except themselves. Just jumping to conclusions at graphs without properly understanding it.

- I said the media have been scaremongering.
- You said they haven't.
- I showed you an article (posted by someone else) which proved that point.
- You said 'it doesn't count'.

Do you get why the electorate are continuously rejecting your type of politics?

CON +10

PVA · May 29, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Do you get why the electorate are continuously rejecting your type of politics?

CON +10

Because people are idiots and believe what they read in the Daily Mail?

It's quite simple - don't read shit media and then complain the media is shit.

Not sure what that has to do with 'type of politics' anyway.

And it's not just the Daily Mail, you're doing the same thing but with this graph.

shmmeee · May 29, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
- I said the media have been scaremongering.
- You said they haven't.
- I showed you an article (posted by someone else) which proved that point.
- You said 'it doesn't count'.

Do you get why the electorate are continuously rejecting your type of politics?

CON +10

Im not sure shit science journalism is particularly party political.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
Also the original paper was too optimistic if anything, predicting far fewer deaths than happened.

Found this about predicting the pandemic in general:

“In early April 2020, DS and his colleagues asked 140 UK experts and more than 2,000 non-experts for quantitative predictions. Experts gave a median estimate of 30,000 Covid deaths by the end of the year, whereas the non-experts said 20,000. The truth was around 75,000; this value was in only a third of the experts’ prediction intervals and in only 10% of the non-experts’. People were both far too optimistic and confident, a common finding.”

The idea that there’s a bunch of a scare mongers out there in the science community because the mouthpiece of the business community says so is one of the more hilarious ideas of the pandemic.

I think the experts didn't expect to have such an incompetent PM and govt to deal with getting in the way of plans for fear of being unpopular.

Sad thing is it probably actually worked out as they wanted. Tens of thousands more have died than should be people are accepting of that and the vaccine rollout has given them a hug boost. Had the been responsible and those lives saved no-one would have known it could've been this bad and they'd all have had a go at Johnson et al for restricting liberties and scaremongering and they'd have got hammered in the local elections for it. They're literally being rewarded for choosing to let people die rather than be unpopular.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 29, 2021

For me the vaccination rollout could prove a big difference between the figures for tests and those for hospitalisations/deaths.
To my understanding, the vaccine is there to reduce the serious symptoms that result in the worst case scenario of needing hospital treatment. If that happens then deaths will reduce due to that anyway, plus there will be better capacity to treat those that do become in danger of it, unlike before where they were having to make choices of who to put on a ventilator. Part of the reason the older/vulnerable age groups fared so badly is because those were the first ones to be refused/taken off ventilators because they were less likely to survive, so they didn't and that data further supported the conclusion that the elderly and vulnerable were at far greater risk of dying. Not saying that it was wrong, just that it created a vicious circle that led further support to that conclusion.

Data shows old/vulnerable people more likely to die - old/vulnerable people are those denied the help when capacity is reached - more old/vulnerable people die than those in other groups - data shows old/vulnerable people more likely to die etc etc.

SBAndy · May 29, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Some people on this thread really aren't doing themselves any favours when it comes to shifting the 'lockdown lover' labels.

You’re a fucking imbecile.

Evo1883 · May 29, 2021

PVA said:
Because people are idiots and believe what they read in the Daily Mail?

It's quite simple - don't read shit media and then complain the media is shit.

Not sure what that has to do with 'type of politics' anyway.

And it's not just the Daily Mail, you're doing the same thing but with this graph.

To be fair , people don't have a great range of options when it comes to factual media reporting

Factual reporting

Daily mail - low
Daily mirror - mixed
The sun - mixed
The guardian - mixed
The Independent - mixed
The Times - High

All but 1 falling below mostly factual reporting- shocking to say the least

Grendel · May 29, 2021

Evo1883 said:
To be fair , people don't have a great range of options when it comes to factual media reporting

Factual reporting

Daily mail - low
Daily mirror - mixed
The sun - mixed
The guardian - mixed
The Independent - mixed

All falling below mostly factual reporting- shocking to say the least

The guardian and the independent have had wretched columnists such as Polly Toynbee and Matthew Paris - they are absurd nonsense that have no interest in real world issues and lives

Evo1883 · May 29, 2021

Grendel said:
The guardian and the independent have had wretched columnists such as Polly Toynbee and Matthew Paris - they are absurd nonsense that have no interest in real world issues and lives

By the looks of it , the only one worth it's salt is the times

Scoring HIGH on factual reporting

Grendel · May 29, 2021

Evo1883 said:
By the looks of it , the only one worth it's salt is the times

The mail on Sunday and the times were fervently anti Brexit

PVA · May 29, 2021

Grendel said:
The guardian and the independent have had wretched columnists such as Polly Toynbee and Matthew Paris - they are absurd nonsense that have no interest in real world issues and lives

Yeah but you called Dan Hodges 'excellent'.

Grendel · May 29, 2021

People like Toynbee are just hilarious. Dribbling in middle class hypocrisy

shmmeee · May 29, 2021

Evo1883 said:
To be fair , people don't have a great range of options when it comes to factual media reporting

Factual reporting

Daily mail - low
Daily mirror - mixed
The sun - mixed
The guardian - mixed
The Independent - mixed
The Times - High

All but 1 falling below mostly factual reporting- shocking to say the least

We should have a national broadcaster held to legally binding neutrality and accuracy standards.

Oh. Wait.

shmmeee · May 29, 2021

Grendel said:
People like Toynbee are just hilarious. Dribbling in middle class hypocrisy

Thanks for that *checks notes* marketing executive who sent his children private.

Always good to hear from the man on the (significantly above average house price) street.

You’re as bad as O’Day for faux working class.

Grendel · May 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
Thanks for that *checks notes* marketing executive who sent his children private.

Always good to hear from the man on the (significantly above average house price) street.

You’re as bad as O’Day for faux working class.

That chip gets bigger every day. The shoulder will be dislocated soon.

Evo1883 · May 29, 2021

shmmeee said:
We should have a national broadcaster held to legally binding neutrality and accuracy standards.

Oh. Wait.

Exactly..so our options are extremely limited to say the least

Evo1883 · May 29, 2021

Point is , you all QUOTE papers and media outlets on here and the politics threads .

Yet they all are wildly unreliable at times with an extremely small amount being highly reliable.

Laugh whatever , most of you QUOTE shit

That's the only VERIFIED FACT I will post today

Evo1883 · May 29, 2021

Let's just keep it real like the Sunday sport

PVA · May 29, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Point is , you all QUOTE papers and media outlets on here and the politics threads .

Yet they all are wildly unreliable at times with an extremely small amount being highly reliable.

Laugh whatever , most of you QUOTE shit

That's the only VERIFIED FACT I will post today

Yeah there's lots of shit out there, no doubt.

But there's a difference between quoting a story with actual quotes in them and posting a graph and jumping to conclusions because you don't understand it (not you as in you directly!).

Evo1883 · May 29, 2021

PVA said:
Yeah there's lots of shit out there, no doubt.

But there's a difference between quoting a story with actual quotes in them and posting a graph and jumping to conclusions because you don't understand it (not you as in you directly!).

Oh no I do it all the time

Sky Blue Pete · May 29, 2021

PVA said:
Yeah there's lots of shit out there, no doubt.

But there's a difference between quoting a story with actual quotes in them and posting a graph and jumping to conclusions because you don't understand it (not you as in you directly!).

I think it’s healthy to have different slants on facts so long as one is aware. It’s the shit that everyone’s opinion is as equally valid that boils my piss. Me and Chris Whitty can have an opinion on public health and how best to limit deaths to a virus I know who I’m going to listen to. I know where many on here are coming from and I can respect their opinion based on their expertise and upbringing and experiences I find it hard when people are rigid to their unsubstantiated opinions when those who have the expertise point out their shit.
Our society is wonderful in so many ways in term of freedom of speech and thought but ffs my opinion on keepers is tainted given what I thought about Burge for 18 months and those who’ve not met joy as a for instance can think what they like from pictures or how they perceive her actions but that’s not quite the same as talking regularly. Same with the trust we can think they’re monsters cause of what they said or did when actually engaging in conversation and building relationship makes it easier to understand their motivation. Same with wasps too.

Sky Blue Pete · May 29, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
I think it’s healthy to have different slants on facts so long as one is aware. It’s the shit that everyone’s opinion is as equally valid that boils my piss. Me and Chris Whitty can have an opinion on public health and how best to limit deaths to a virus I know who I’m going to listen to. I know where many on here are coming from and I can respect their opinion based on their expertise and upbringing and experiences I find it hard when people are rigid to their unsubstantiated opinions when those who have the expertise point out their shit.
Our society is wonderful in so many ways in term of freedom of speech and thought but ffs my opinion on keepers is tainted given what I thought about Burge for 18 months and those who’ve not met joy as a for instance can think what they like from pictures or how they perceive her actions but that’s not quite the same as talking regularly. Same with the trust we can think they’re monsters cause of what they said or did when actually engaging in conversation and building relationship makes it easier to understand their motivation. Same with wasps too.

And I should add I am as pro European as you can get but I’m much more aware of the alternative thoughts and why as a country it’s not racist to manage our border as the numbers of economic migrants coming in. Similar with Covid I’m pretty risk verse and pro listening to those in authority but those should be challenged and managed and considered against the evidence and many of you have helped me see that so thank you

CCFCSteve · May 29, 2021

Sky Blue Pete said:
I think it’s healthy to have different slants on facts so long as one is aware. It’s the shit that everyone’s opinion is as equally valid that boils my piss. Me and Chris Whitty can have an opinion on public health and how best to limit deaths to a virus I know who I’m going to listen to. I know where many on here are coming from and I can respect their opinion based on their expertise and upbringing and experiences I find it hard when people are rigid to their unsubstantiated opinions when those who have the expertise point out their shit.
Our society is wonderful in so many ways in term of freedom of speech and thought but ffs my opinion on keepers is tainted given what I thought about Burge for 18 months and those who’ve not met joy as a for instance can think what they like from pictures or how they perceive her actions but that’s not quite the same as talking regularly. Same with the trust we can think they’re monsters cause of what they said or did when actually engaging in conversation and building relationship makes it easier to understand their motivation. Same with wasps too.

To be fair Burge did have half a decent season, then crumbed (after Walsall away I think)...don’t be too hard on yourself

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (17 Viewers)

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