Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (8 Viewers)

[Grendel]

How a mature democracy deals with this issue

Australia: New South Wales confirms first Covid-related death in 10 months

A woman in her 90s died in Sydney, as state officials warn of a surge in new infections.

www.bbc.co.uk

So basically every country in Europe is immature - sensible post - also how has a Delta variant arrived in a country which has had enormously stringent rules so much so that even the Wimbledon champion is banned from going home to celebrate with her family?

 

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[Grendel]

Not for me thanks

Australia: Harsh Police Response During Covid-19

(Sydney) – Victoria’s police have used harsh measures during the Australian state’s Covid-19 lockdown that threaten basic rights.

www.hrw.org

 

[chiefdave]

Nadhim Zahawi doing the rounds and not doing much to make me believe removing all restrictions is the right thing to do.

If as he says people are 'expected to wear masks in indoor enclosed places' why remove the requirement?

Was also so desperate to not say Johnson lied in parliament that he insisted severing the link between cases and hospitalisations is the same thing as weakening it. To prove this point he said 'at the current infection rate if this was without the vaccination program we would have 500-600 people being admitted to hospital a day'. Latest figure for daily admissions is 563.

But at least they've come up with a good plan to prevent the staffing crisis in the NHS getting any worse. No self isolation if they've got PPE. Sure spreading covid round hospitals will greatly improve things.

There was also a suggestion from Sir David Spiegelhalter that if Javid's numbers on expected cases are correct we're looking at 2,500 hospitalisations a day. Isn't that higher than the number that's put us into past lockdowns?

 

[Grendel]

Nadhim Zahawi doing the rounds and not doing much to make me believe removing all restrictions is the right thing to do.

If as he says people are 'expected to wear masks in indoor enclosed places' why remove the requirement?

Was also so desperate to not say Johnson lied in parliament that he insisted severing the link between cases and hospitalisations is the same thing as weakening it. To prove this point he said 'at the current infection rate if this was without the vaccination program we would have 500-600 people being admitted to hospital a day'. Latest figure for daily admissions is 563.

But at least they've come up with a good plan to prevent the staffing crisis in the NHS getting any worse. No self isolation if they've got PPE. Sure spreading covid round hospitals will greatly improve things.

There was also a suggestion from Sir David Spiegelhalter that if Javid's numbers on expected cases are correct we're looking at 2,500 hospitalisations a day. Isn't that higher than the number that's put us into past lockdowns?

You are quoting Zahawi off the Andrew Marr show. The same programme that had a ONS guy who said even if we reach 100,000 infections a day we will have considerably less hospitalisation than the last peak and also that most of those have a far faster exit and will not have serious issues - he also said did he not the age demographic is substantially skewed now towards younger people and only 15% are really vulnerable?

 

[skybluetony176]

So basically every country in Europe is immature - sensible post - also how has a Delta variant arrived in a country which has had enormously stringent rules so much so that even the Wimbledon champion is banned from going home to celebrate with her family?

Jesus Christ. The hoops you will jump through to try and justify the failures of this government. Australia has managed to keep the delta variant out for almost 3 months longer than we have. That difference is an extra 15% of the population could have been vaccinated.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Nadhim Zahawi doing the rounds and not doing much to make me believe removing all restrictions is the right thing to do.

If as he says people are 'expected to wear masks in indoor enclosed places' why remove the requirement?

Was also so desperate to not say Johnson lied in parliament that he insisted severing the link between cases and hospitalisations is the same thing as weakening it. To prove this point he said 'at the current infection rate if this was without the vaccination program we would have 500-600 people being admitted to hospital a day'. Latest figure for daily admissions is 563.

But at least they've come up with a good plan to prevent the staffing crisis in the NHS getting any worse. No self isolation if they've got PPE. Sure spreading covid round hospitals will greatly improve things.

There was also a suggestion from Sir David Spiegelhalter that if Javid's numbers on expected cases are correct we're looking at 2,500 hospitalisations a day. Isn't that higher than the number that's put us into past lockdowns?

Semantics surely

 

[Grendel]

Semantics surely

Bollocks actually

 

[Marty]

How a mature democracy deals with this issue

Australia: New South Wales confirms first Covid-related death in 10 months

A woman in her 90s died in Sydney, as state officials warn of a surge in new infections.

www.bbc.co.uk

NSW is a police state in normal times. 10pm curfews for bars and pubs and relaxed at weekends. Easily the worst state in Australia.

 

[Grendel]

NSW is a police state in normal times. 10pm curfews for bars and pubs and relaxed at weekends. Easily the worst state in Australia.

yet Pete seems to want this disgusting regime here. It’s also racist homophobic and shocking regarding disability equality but Pete wants the U.K. to go this way

 

[chiefdave]

also how has a Delta variant arrived in a country which has had enormously stringent rules so much so that even the Wimbledon champion is banned from going home to celebrate with her family?

Just shows how much more infectious the variant is doesn't it? The measures they had in place, hotel quarantine, track & trace and local lockdowns worked until people arriving in quarantine had the delta variant. When a case leaked from quarantine, usually via a staff member, they could track the small number of people who were potentially infected and deal with it relatively effectively.

With delta they are finding each leak is resulting in far more infections, they've traced infections back to things as brief as someone infected walking past someone in a park.

Looks like they're significantly reducing the international arrival limit to try and get back on top of things.

 

[Grendel]

Just shows how much more infectious the variant is doesn't it? The measures they had in place, hotel quarantine, track & trace and local lockdowns worked until people arriving in quarantine had the delta variant. When a case leaked from quarantine, usually via a staff member, they could track the small number of people who were potentially infected and deal with it relatively effectively.

With delta they are finding each leak is resulting in far more infections, they've traced infections back to things as brief as someone infected walking past someone in a park.

Looks like they're significantly reducing the international arrival limit to try and get back on top of things.

Thank god all vulnerable people are vaccinated - well actually let’s thank the government - and that we can return to normal next Monday and live like normal human beings

It’s brilliant isn’t it?

 

[Marty]

yet Pete seems to want this disgusting regime here. It’s also racist homophobic and shocking regarding disability equality but Pete wants the U.K. to go this way

Places like Bondi beach in Sydney are held up as some sort of icing on the cake. The place is a shit hole covered in graffiti and shit. Could drop the area in hilfields and it wouldn't feel out of place. All smoke and mirrors in NSW.

 

[COV]

Just shows how much more infectious the variant is doesn't it? The measures they had in place, hotel quarantine, track & trace and local lockdowns worked until people arriving in quarantine had the delta variant. When a case leaked from quarantine, usually via a staff member, they could track the small number of people who were potentially infected and deal with it relatively effectively.

With delta they are finding each leak is resulting in far more infections, they've traced infections back to things as brief as someone infected walking past someone in a park.

Looks like they're significantly reducing the international arrival limit to try and get back on top of things.

So is this delta variant the same as what they’re calling the Johnson variant, there are too many names & variants now to keep on top of

 

[Evo1883]

So is this delta variant the same as what they’re calling the Johnson variant, there are too many names & variants now to keep on top of

 

[COV]

Places like Bondi beach in Sydney are held up as some sort of icing on the cake. The place is a shit hole covered in graffiti and shit. Could drop the area in hilfields and it wouldn't feel out of place. All smoke and mirrors in NSW.

That bad, really? Never been, honest question.

 

[COV]

Lol- I was reading about a Peruvian one, a lambda one (they may be the same), seems like if you don’t have your own variant you aren’t part of the gang

 

[chiefdave]

You are quoting Zahawi off the Andrew Marr show. The same programme that had a ONS guy who said even if we reach 100,000 infections a day we will have considerably less hospitalisation than the last peak and also that most of those have a far faster exit and will not have serious issues - he also said did he not the age demographic is substantially skewed now towards younger people and only 15% are really vulnerable?

I mentioned him, he suggested 2,500 hospitalisations a day. What was the figure for daily hospitalisations when previous lockdowns were brought in? Also mentioned that the level of hospitalisations would be very disruptive for the NHS and there would be a lot of 'bad outcomes'.

Worryingly he said he was 67 and 'vaxed up to the eyeballs' but the current data shows he is still more at risk of dying from covid than an unvaccinated 30 year old.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious but I don't take much comfort from someone forecasting more hospitalisation and death but saying it won't be quite as bad as when it was at it very worst in the past.

 

[Marty]

That bad, really? Never been, honest question.

Yeah, it's actually a horrible area, the beach itself is superb though. To get past the 10pm curfews, everyone is on the lash from about 3.

 

[COV]

Yeah, it's actually a horrible area, the beach itself is superb though. To get past the 10pm curfews, everyone is on the lash from about 3.

Are the curfews just relating to covid or permanent?

 

[Marty]

Are the curfews just relating to covid or permanent?

Permanent.

 

[chiefdave]

A question. The data shows the vaccine is effective and we continue to be told that the target is to have all adults fully vaccinated by September.

Why then is there concern that if we keep relatively minor restrictions in place until September the NHS will then be overwhelmed? Surely if we complete the vaccination program, then remove the final restrictions, the vaccine will do its job and, according the experts, there will be significantly less risk of a vaccine resistant variant?

 

[Grendel]

So is this delta variant the same as what they’re calling the Johnson variant, there are too many names & variants now to keep on top of

The Johnson variant that’s ravaging Europe - i love your non political take

 

[COV]

A question. The data shows the vaccine is effective and we continue to be told that the target is to have all adults fully vaccinated by September.

Why then is there concern that if we keep relatively minor restrictions in place until September the NHS will then be overwhelmed? Surely if we complete the vaccination program, then remove the final restrictions, the vaccine will do its job?

Isn’t that because the vaccine only stops you dying or requiring hospitalisation? You can still get very sick with this thing post vaccination but you’re just highly unlikely to die… I think

 

[Grendel]

I mentioned him, he suggested 2,500 hospitalisations a day. What was the figure for daily hospitalisations when previous lockdowns were brought in? Also mentioned that the level of hospitalisations would be very disruptive for the NHS and there would be a lot of 'bad outcomes'.

Worryingly he said he was 67 and 'vaxed up to the eyeballs' but the current data shows he is still more at risk of dying from covid than an unvaccinated 30 year old.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious but I don't take much comfort from someone forecasting more hospitalisation and death but saying it won't be quite as bad as when it was at it very worst in the past.

It won’t be anywhere near as bad

Have a day off FFS

 

[Sick Boy]

A question. The data shows the vaccine is effective and we continue to be told that the target is to have all adults fully vaccinated by September.

Why then is there concern that if we keep relatively minor restrictions in place until September the NHS will then be overwhelmed? Surely if we complete the vaccination program, then remove the final restrictions, the vaccine will do its job and, according the experts, there will be significantly less risk of a vaccine resistant variant?

The most vulnerable will need booster shots then and will needs to isolate until they’ve had them.

 

[COV]

The Johnson variant that’s ravaging Europe - i love your non political take

For the record I think Johnson is a better PM than Starmer could ever in his wildest dreams hope to be. Or indeed anyone in Labour who are pathetic, impossible to like and unelectable. Not that I’m totally clueless about politics (but I am compared to most), I just don’t have a “side”

 

[Grendel]

The most vulnerable will need booster shots then and will needs to isolate until they’ve had them.

And that’s it and people will die.

It’s what it is.

Spain infection rate is massively escalating, France and Germany likewise. Italy is behind the curve but another wave is coming with delta rife in Europe.

Still though it’s not anywhere near the issue it was

I did message some people on here in November as Covid hit my work and I could have hit it and likely died so people would know what happened. I still felt an obligation to go into work

This isn’t going away but is being minimised and people must accept it’s like other infectious and deadly diseases - there is a vaccine so take it minimal use risk and live a normal life

 

[COV]

And that’s it and people will die.

It’s what it is.

Spain infection rate is massively escalating, France and Germany likewise. Italy is behind the curve but another wave is coming with delta rife in Europe.

Still though it’s not anywhere near the issue it was

I did message some people on here in November as Covid hit my work and I could have hit it and likely died so people would know what happened. I still felt an obligation to go into work

This isn’t going away but is being minimised and people must accept it’s like other infectious and deadly diseases - there is a vaccine so take it minimal use risk and live a normal life

I think…. I agree with you.

 

[robbiekeane]

And that’s it and people will die.

It’s what it is.

Spain infection rate is massively escalating, France and Germany likewise. Italy is behind the curve but another wave is coming with delta rife in Europe.

Still though it’s not anywhere near the issue it was

I did message some people on here in November as Covid hit my work and I could have hit it and likely died so people would know what happened. I still felt an obligation to go into work

This isn’t going away but is being minimised and people must accept it’s like other infectious and deadly diseases - there is a vaccine so take it minimal use risk and live a normal life

Also agreed. As painful as that is to say

 

[robbiekeane]

As ever on here however, it's being painted as black and white (not from you tbf). Now, the Chief Medical Officer days most restrictions should end... so I'll go with that. He also gave a very precise explanation over where he'd wear a mask, and none of that was overly radical, but we're not mandating that.

Now, none of what he said ref: masks stops people getting on with life really. I don't see why there would be any push back on that as it's not a huge imposition, and not a massive chore either. Now, in an ideal world you wouldn't have to mandate for common courtesy but... this is not an ideal world.

So, isn't it possible to heed the Chief Medical Officer in all respects and still be able to get on with life, without cherry picking, as government seem to have done?

(I really don't fancy getting on with life on packed commuter trains anyway, Covid or no, so don't quite get the desire for those elements anyway!)

I hear what you’re saying NW.

For me though, we can’t infinitely mandate mask wearing. It’s seen as a bit totalitarian. Personally I will continue to wear a mask on public transport and it’d be nice if other people do. Not just for covid either, but for the fact I’ve had so little when it comes to colds etc! This thing has opened up my eyes a bit to how easy it is to inhale other people’s germs which is a bit gross to me really!

 

[fernandopartridge]

How a mature democracy deals with this issue

Australia: New South Wales confirms first Covid-related death in 10 months

A woman in her 90s died in Sydney, as state officials warn of a surge in new infections.

www.bbc.co.uk

Nothing particularly democratic about not even allowing your own citizens to return home

 

[Deleted member 5849]

For me though, we can’t infinitely mandate mask wearing. It’s seen as a bit totalitarian.

We can't, but then this won't last forever either. At some stage, we'll either have developed our Covid-sip, and / or the low risk / easy transmission variant will pop up, which we'll all be desperate to catch!

 

[COV]

We can't, but then this won't last forever either. At some stage, we'll either have developed our Covid-sip, and / or the low risk / easy transmission variant will pop up, which we'll all be desperate to catch!

It will be interesting to see if it does last forever to some degree, perhaps we’ll see masks as a normal thing in some places forever now.

 

[Sick Boy]

Nothing particularly democratic about not even allowing your own citizens to return home

It’s not exactly straightforward to get back into Britain at the moment either.

 

[robbiekeane]

Nothing particularly democratic about not even allowing your own citizens to return home

They’ve done a much better job than many of keeping covid under control though haven’t they? Many people, not yourself necessarily, been screaming for tighter controls on borders to prevent new variants coming in, but then criticise exactly that