Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (7 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

I can't see Boris Johnson trying to force anyone to do anything

Nor can I but worth pointing out that prior to covid the health secretary was speaking to legal advisors about making other vaccinations compulsory due to rates dropping so maybe its not that far fetched to think compulsory vaccinations could be introduced at some stage.

Imagine there would be uproar on the back benches so the chances of it becoming a reality are probably slim at best.

https://www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/health-secretary-seriously-considering-compulsory-childhood-vaccination/

 

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[wingy]

Can't be arsed with this now , let's just pile on if it happens

It's a bank holiday FFS


A grey one at that.

 

[Evo1883]

What “freedoms”?

I don’t have the freedom to work wherever I like. I don’t have the freedom to frequent any private business I like. You can be banned from shops or pubs for behaviour, you can be sacked for all kinds of things, you have to pass interview to get a job in the first place.

If you really don’t want to get vaccinated go and work somewhere where it doesn’t matter.

You'd soon moan if your bins weren't collected .... again , can barely staff it as it is , they'd lose half the workforce

 

[wingy]

Is this an example of a freedom or a right being denied or even a necessity.


"Struck off from my dentists what are my options? | Singletrack Magazine Forum" Struck off from my dentists what are my options?

 

[Grendel]

If you assume everyone who hasn't had a first dose is actually anti-vax, which is a huge stretch, that puts the number at under 6.4m.

By comparison there's 3.8m people who are CEV. The current advise from the government is for them to avoid places where there might be people who aren't vaccinated. There's a further 8.8m in the CV group who are advised to pay more attention to social distancing, mask wearing etc than the minimum standards currently required. What about their freedoms?

Nobody is suggesting forcing anyone to get a vaccine but you need to strike a balance between protecting those at risk & allowing them to have a decent quality of life and people who think Bill Gates wants to track them being able to go to the pub.

What is the balance without forcing people?

 

[wingy]

"Guidance for adult patients having an operation during COVID-19 | Centre for Perioperative Care" Guidance for adult patients having an operation during COVID-19

 

[wingy]

"Obese patients denied surgery in a third of areas in England - BBC News" Surgery ban for obese patients 'wrong' - BBC News

 

[wingy]

"Rationing elective surgery for smokers and obese patients: responsibility or prognosis? | BMC Medical Ethics | Full Text" Rationing elective surgery for smokers and obese patients: responsibility or prognosis? - BMC Medical Ethics

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/147882/Green-Book-Chapter-12.pdf

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The freedom to do what you feel like without consequence...

 

[shmmeee]

The freedom to do what you feel like without consequence...

If they were protesting the imminent destruction of the earth the police would’ve been in with batons and gas by now.

 

[Sick Boy]

The freedom to do what you feel like without consequence...

Wankers.
Isn’t that the woman who called for NHS staff to be hung?
How do the police let it get to the stage where a vaccination centre is closed and people end up missing appointments?

 

[Grendel]

Wankers.
Isn’t that the woman who called for NHS staff to be hung?
How do the police let it get to the stage where a vaccination centre is closed and people end up missing appointments?

Kate Shemarani by any chance?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How do the police let it get to the stage where a vaccination centre is closed and people end up missing appointments?

https://www.sussex.police.uk/news/sussex/news/witness-appeals/witness-appeal-after-smoke-bomb-released-outside-brighton-vaccination-centre/

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Kate Shemarani by any chance?

Aye.

How my mum fell for conspiracy theories

Sebastian’s mum has grown a big online following by spreading dangerous Covid conspiracy theories.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[skybluetony176]

The freedom to do what you feel like without consequence...

“It’s toxic, don’t let them inject you with it”. Says woman with a face full of Botox.

And people take her seriously.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

 

[fernandopartridge]

View attachment 21644

For context, useful to understand the % of the population local to that hospital that have been vaccinated

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

For context, useful to understand the % of the population local to that hospital that have been vaccinated

Sorry


As of Monday, August 30, UAB Medicine has 170 COVID-19 hospitalizations. Of those hospitalizations, 19 are vaccinated, 151 are unvaccinated. In our ICU, 5 are vaccinated, 61 are unvaccinated. We have 44 patients on vents, 39 of which are unvaccinated.

UAB Medicine reviews the data for our inpatient cases to determine why vaccinated patients are hospitalized. In the vast majority of cases, vaccinated patients who are hospitalized are immunocompromised. For example, a recent sampling of 203 positive cases at UAB Hospital revealed 20 fully vaccinated cases (9.8%). Of those, 13 (65%) were immunocompromised. These numbers show another reason why vaccination is important—it helps to protect a vulnerable population that may not have a robust immunity response to the vaccine.

Find more information about receiving your COVID-19 vaccine at https://fal.cn/3hPnB.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Yet when asked 90% say they’re happy to have it: Coronavirus and vaccine hesitancy, Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

Which implies it’s a convenience not a moral standpoint issue.

It proves that 29% are not anti vaxx, but as you say it is either an inconvenience, or moreover they probably don't see the point of it.

The argument that anyone that hasn't had the vaccine is a dickhead or has a thing for Bill Gates is a bit silly.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sorry


As of Monday, August 30, UAB Medicine has 170 COVID-19 hospitalizations. Of those hospitalizations, 19 are vaccinated, 151 are unvaccinated. In our ICU, 5 are vaccinated, 61 are unvaccinated. We have 44 patients on vents, 39 of which are unvaccinated.

UAB Medicine reviews the data for our inpatient cases to determine why vaccinated patients are hospitalized. In the vast majority of cases, vaccinated patients who are hospitalized are immunocompromised. For example, a recent sampling of 203 positive cases at UAB Hospital revealed 20 fully vaccinated cases (9.8%). Of those, 13 (65%) were immunocompromised. These numbers show another reason why vaccination is important—it helps to protect a vulnerable population that may not have a robust immunity response to the vaccine.

Find more information about receiving your COVID-19 vaccine at https://fal.cn/3hPnB.

Good to see Alabama are on top of it

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I've recently noticed that the UK excess deaths figure (120K) is now considerably LOWER than the death figure for covid within 28 days (132K) or covid on the death certificate (155K)......

I think I'm right in saying the general consensus is that excess deaths will be the most accurate measure for comparison with other nations when all this is over......

...so interesting to note that the UK (and others) maybe appear to be over-recording covid deaths (?)....especially compared to many other nations where excess death figures suggest they have massively underplayed it.....

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've recently noticed that the UK excess deaths figure (120K) is now considerably LOWER than the death figure for covid within 28 days (132K) or covid on the death certificate (155K)......

I think I'm right in saying the general consensus is that excess deaths will be the most accurate measure for comparison with other nations when all this is over......

...so interesting to note that the UK (and others) maybe appear to be over-recording covid deaths (?)....especially compared to many other nations where excess death figures suggest they have massively underplayed it.....

There would be a point where excess deaths fell below covid deaths given the people it affected most. A lot of elderly and at risk people died in a short space of time due to covid who would most likely have passed away in the next few years anyway.

Whereas those deaths ordinarily would be spread out they've all come at once because of covid. So we're currently seeing less 'natural' deaths of elderly people now because they passed away during the last year instead.

 

[shmmeee]

There would be a point where excess deaths fell below covid deaths given the people it affected most. A lot of elderly and at risk people died in a short space of time due to covid who would most likely have passed away in the next few years anyway.

Whereas those deaths ordinarily would be spread out they've all come at once because of covid. So we're currently seeing less 'natural' deaths of elderly people now because they passed away during the last year instead.

Also we aren’t back to normal yet from my experience. For a start lots of people are still WFH (and may always be) so road deaths for example, which is I think always high historically, will still be suppressed.

 

[Liquid Gold]

If we end up in another fucking lockdown this winter because people are too lazy, too stupid or too fucking crazy to get vaccinated then I'm going to be furious.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If we end up in another fucking lockdown this winter because people are too lazy, too stupid or too fucking crazy to get vaccinated then I'm going to be furious.

Surely nobody's too *lazy* to get the vaccine during a pandemic?!? I mean, if you were *that* lazy and not bothered about things, you wouldn't be leaving your house for *anything* so wouldn't be much of a risk anyway... surely?!?

You'd have to be a total cretin to not make time to get it, unless you were stationed in the Arctic! In many ways that'd be worse than the conspiracy theorists as they may be insane, but they at least believe what they're protesting about!

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Also we aren’t back to normal yet from my experience. For a start lots of people are still WFH (and may always be) so road deaths for example, which is I think always high historically, will still be suppressed.

Yeah...I kind of assumed its down to less people dying in other ways than usual.....which would account for some nations actually showing a negative excess death figure for the pandemic to date......

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

If we end up in another fucking lockdown this winter because people are too lazy, too stupid or too fucking crazy to get vaccinated then I'm going to be furious.

Why would that be the case?

I'm pretty sure there will be another lockdown anyway. Then everyone will need a third booster eventually, so the current status of being vaccinated will become insignificant to an extent at some point. What will be the uptake on the third one after that? Probably even less I would imagine.

 

[COV]

Surely nobody's too *lazy* to get the vaccine during a pandemic?!? I mean, if you were *that* lazy and not bothered about things, you wouldn't be leaving your house for *anything* so wouldn't be much of a risk anyway... surely?!?

You'd have to be a total cretin to not make time to get it, unless you were stationed in the Arctic! In many ways that'd be worse than the conspiracy theorists as they may be insane, but they at least believe what they're protesting about!

If you think the vaccine is an inconvenience (in a global pandemic), I'm not sure you should be allowed out on your own, how stupid is that.

And if after the last 18 mths you can't see the point in the vaccine, well then you really are a special type of idiot.

 

[SBT]

Why would that be the case?

I'm pretty sure there will be another lockdown anyway. Then everyone will need a third booster eventually, so the current status of being vaccinated will become insignificant to an extent at some point. What will be the uptake on the third one after that? Probably even less I would imagine.

Plenty of places in the US have reimposed restrictions, in part because vaccination rates are stubbornly low in large swathes of the country. I don't want to go back to that either.

Shrugging your shoulders and saying the vaccine is irrelevant because we might need to get a booster and/or go back into lockdown sometime in the future doesn't make any sense to me. It's just yet another excuse. Right now it's clearly the best way to keep yourself safe, slow down the spread of the virus and get us out of this ongoing shitshow.

 

[COV]

Plenty of places in the US have reimposed restrictions, in part because vaccination rates are stubbornly low in large swathes of the country. I don't want to go back to that either.

Shrugging your shoulders and saying the vaccine is irrelevant because we might need to get a booster and/or go back into lockdown sometime in the future doesn't make any sense to me. It's just yet another excuse. Right now it's clearly the best way to keep yourself safe, slow down the spread of the virus and get us out of this ongoing shitshow.

Saying that other people will think the vaccine is irrelevant or a waste of time is what anti-vaxxers say when they don't want to just outright say they are an anti-vaxxer themselves.

 

[Grendel]

Also we aren’t back to normal yet from my experience. For a start lots of people are still WFH (and may always be) so road deaths for example, which is I think always high historically, will still be suppressed.

Its about 1.800 a year isnt it and not really changed in the last few years

 

[COV]

Its about 1.800 a year isnt it and not really changed in the last few years

2020 road deaths down from about 1,800 to 1,472, biggest drop in well over a decade & road injuries down 25% in 2020, again a huge drop.

 

[Grendel]

2020 road deaths down from about 1,800 to 1,472, biggest drop in well over a decade & road injuries down 25% in 2020, again a huge drop.

So its 300 less then which is my point to the original observation -- tiny in absolutes

 

[COV]

So its 300 less then which is my point to the original observation -- tiny in absolutes

25% reduction in serious injury is tiny? Its 30,000 fewer people injured on the roads.

Look at the trend, its pretty stark- runs at 1,800 every year but then drops steeply. Whatever your views are on WFH & whether it should continue, it certainly did cause a big drop in people getting hurt or killed on the roads.