Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I think it might be to do with the evidence on general immunity after the 3rd jab. It could really cut down transmission of Delta also
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
- Start date
I think it might be to do with the evidence on general immunity after the 3rd jab. It could really cut down transmission of Delta also
duffer
Well-Known Member
Viruses can mutate to become either more deadly, or less deadly. At the moment I think the jury is out on the Omicron strain:
We shouldn’t worry when a virus mutates during disease outbreaks - Nature Microbiology
Mutation. The word naturally conjures fears of unexpected and freakish changes. Ill-informed discussions of mutations thrive during virus outbreaks, including the ongoing spread of SARS-CoV-2. In reality, mutations are a natural part of the virus life cycle and rarely impact outbreaks dramatically.
www.nature.com
See not really true, the chances of a vírus mutating to become deadlier is miniscule, they tend to reduce in potency as you can say over time, its just the natural evoloution of a vírus, they mutate to survive and multiply not to kill the host. (not saying it cant happen but very very very tiny chance of it happening)Viruses can mutate to become either more deadly, or less deadly. At the moment I think the jury is out on the Omicron strain:
We shouldn’t worry when a virus mutates during disease outbreaks - Nature Microbiology
Mutation. The word naturally conjures fears of unexpected and freakish changes. Ill-informed discussions of mutations thrive during virus outbreaks, including the ongoing spread of SARS-CoV-2. In reality, mutations are a natural part of the virus life cycle and rarely impact outbreaks dramatically.
duffer
Well-Known Member
If I could make only one wish with regards to this thread, it's that we should not let anecdotes trump data.
The point of vaccination isn't just to protect the individual, it's to protect everyone.
Politely, I think there's far too much weight here given from some people towards anecdotal evidence, which even in itself is often based on assumptions.
That isn't a sensible path when there's a ton of actual peer-reviewed evidence out there that clearly indicates that the risk of serious illness from Covid, whilst relatively low for most people, is still far, far greater than the risk of a serious adverse reaction to a vaccination.
And of course, vaccination doesn't just benefit the individual, it reduces transmission and benefits all of us.
Less transmission also means less mutations, further reducing risk. I don't really get what's so hard to understand about this.
The point of vaccination isn't just to protect the individual, it's to protect everyone.
Politely, I think there's far too much weight here given from some people towards anecdotal evidence, which even in itself is often based on assumptions.
That isn't a sensible path when there's a ton of actual peer-reviewed evidence out there that clearly indicates that the risk of serious illness from Covid, whilst relatively low for most people, is still far, far greater than the risk of a serious adverse reaction to a vaccination.
And of course, vaccination doesn't just benefit the individual, it reduces transmission and benefits all of us.
Less transmission also means less mutations, further reducing risk. I don't really get what's so hard to understand about this.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Can you link to some actual evidence for this please?
duffer
Well-Known Member
It's this sort of stuff that worries me.
The chance of a virus mutating to be more deadly is certainly not minuscule. There is no evidence to support that proposition.
So, I wonder, why do people say it or take it at face value. I tend to think it's often to justify a purely selfish position - I don't want to vaccinate/wear a mask/socially distance, because I find it personally inconvenient.
There's certainly no need to panic about the new strain, but it's also not sensible to dismiss it.
www.usatoday.com
The chance of a virus mutating to be more deadly is certainly not minuscule. There is no evidence to support that proposition.
So, I wonder, why do people say it or take it at face value. I tend to think it's often to justify a purely selfish position - I don't want to vaccinate/wear a mask/socially distance, because I find it personally inconvenient.
There's certainly no need to panic about the new strain, but it's also not sensible to dismiss it.
Fact check: Yes, viruses can mutate to become more deadly
A viral tweet shared online falsely claims viruses never mutate to become more lethal.
www.usatoday.com
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
This is indeed key. Wait and see seems the best approach.
I understand where you’re coming from Nick. I had two jabs and then got Covid in July so I was thinking double jab plus natural immunity, is it even worth having the booster ?!
I decided to earlier in the week due to evidence of waning immunity after 6 months after two jabs (down to 40%) and the booster takes it up past 90% against symptomatic disease.
I couldn’t find any decent data on double jab plus natural immunity but thought with the new variant it may well mean lower vaccine effectiveness so it wasn’t worth the risk
It’s each to their own though. I don’t agree with mandatory vaccines so it’s your call. I don’t think it’s a shifting of goalposts though. They just don’t know how long these vaccines will last against a new virus. As has been said before it feels like it might turn into an annual jab like with the flu
Yeah, know what you’re saying NW. I think it’s just a numbers game combined with concern over impact of new variant....as simple as boosting everyone’s immunity to minimise hospitalisations. I don’t mind the push for boosters although i felt it was OTT as we were knocking them out at 300-400k per day already (maybe vaccines are getting near use by date ?!!) what has really pissed me off is media whipping it up into a frenzy, people than cancelling Xmas parties etc, it’s crazy. Take some extra precautions by all means, especially around high risk individuals, but let’s see what the data says before collectively shitting ourselves
Edit - what I think is a mistake is pushing GPs to prioritise three month boosters ahead of seeing non vaccine related patients who are likely to be at far greater risk from other issues
Last edited:
Just watch a few of dr john campbells videos on youtube, he mentioned it like 1000 times since stary of pandemic,
What’s more interesting is that the GP who tried to inspect an eye complaint over their version of facetime (funny if it wasn’t almost very serious) appears more than happy to make themselves available for the more remunerative face to face jabs !
Nick
Administrator
Oh of course they will be more eager to get people in then.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
OK, but COVID can be passed on before or even without you showing symptoms. Which means that what happens to you after you get it is less important than with viruses that always cause symptoms.
See HIV for a virus that is also asymptomatic and remains similarly deadly.
I’m all for telephone appointments if it helps clear the GP backlog and/or appropriate for the specifics issues but I’ve had personal experience and heard of far too many occasions where they’re being used incorrectly, almost dangerously.
Back to Covid. Have a think about your booster and do some research about waning immunity. No rush but indications are it’s probably worthwhile
duffer
Well-Known Member
Can you post a link to something that he's published and that contains evidence that the chance of a virus mutating to become more dangerous/transmissible is minuscule, please?
I've linked to actual evidence that you're mistaken in that assumption, you're asking me to wade through hours of YouTube.
You've made a claim, can you point to any actual evidence to back it up.
I'm man enough to hold my hands up if I've got it wrong, I'd just like to see some proof, please.
Nick
Administrator
Will wait until I need the doctors for anything and I am sure I will be like a VIP then if I say I might want the booster
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Here we go..
www.telegraph.co.uk
Angela Merkel backs compulsory Covid jabs as Germany agrees de facto lockdown for unvaccinated
German chancellor calls new measures an 'act of national solidarity'
www.telegraph.co.uk
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
It's shit. This post covid world can get fucked.Here we go..
Angela Merkel backs compulsory Covid jabs as Germany agrees de facto lockdown for unvaccinated
German chancellor calls new measures an 'act of national solidarity'
Nick
Administrator
Here we go..
Angela Merkel backs compulsory Covid jabs as Germany agrees de facto lockdown for unvaccinated
German chancellor calls new measures an 'act of national solidarity'
Interesting they group people who have had it in with vaccinated.
Absolutely no chance we could police anything like that.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
You are turning into a proper conspiracy crank Nick. They pay GPs extra cos the GMS contract that GPs are on does not cover provision of vaccines. Are you suggesting that GPs should set up and staff the vaccine centres for free?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The same is coming in in Italy next week.Here we go..
Angela Merkel backs compulsory Covid jabs as Germany agrees de facto lockdown for unvaccinated
German chancellor calls new measures an 'act of national solidarity'
Nick
Administrator
They were paying them for vaccines, weren't they?
It's not a conspiracy to suggest that GPs might be ever so keen to prioritise something they are now getting paid more to do?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
They are not prioritising one thing over another at all, they're just being paid for the extra work they're doing. If you really need one you can easily get a face to face appointment (my daughter has had 2 in consecutive days).
If you want to blame anybody don't look at GPs but at the government that has systematically destroyed NHS capacity
Nick
Administrator
I was pointing out the raised amount that GPs will get for vaccines.
Sadly a proper appointment has been like rocking horse shit which I don't mind as I will survive and I hope your daughter is OK.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
It does make some sense to try and get GP's to push this because over the whole NHS (and arguably beyond in terms of the economy etc.) getting the vaccines done will have a massive impact in getting us through this and out the other side as quickly as possible. Otherwise this goes on for even longer and the NHS struggles to cope with covid patients along with it's normal work. GP's are probably the part of the NHS that deal with the least serious ailments and identifying more serious ones to be referred. So they're probably the best available place to utilise for vaccine rollout, thus reducing hospitalisations etc and creating capacity problems in hospitals that affect big stuff like cancer ops etc.
In an ideal world we'd be able to just employ other people to do the jabs allowing the doctors/nurses to get on with their main job. But then they'd need to be trained unless you just want some random Joe Public jabbing you in the arm and not only do we not have time for that it's bloody expensive. And they'd want paying too, so the money going to the GP's would only be being spent elsewhere.
To be fair to Nick I think his issue is that some GPs are willing to do the jabs (face to face obviously) but many didn’t/don’t want standard face to face appointments. I appreciate what Fernando said about his daughter, which is great, but every GP surgery is run differently and some (mine being one*) were doing automatic appointment over phone
These surgeries need calling out as it’s dangerous and they are adding pressure onto other parts of NHS like A&E.There are many appointments that can be held over the phone but many that can’t, it should be relatively easy split most of these out and also to offer option to patient
*It may have changed in the past 3-4 weeks but don’t think so.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Is that actually a problem? Mine do that but, if the doctor decides you need to be seen, you're seen that very day.
Yeah, I think so. I ended up going to an optometrist (who was very worried but couldn’t prescribe medication) who gave me a letter and advised me to go to emergency eye clinic immediately. All of which would’ve costs the NHS
How was a doctor ever going to be able to inspect my eye over the phone ? Even if they had called me in after the phone appointment, then he’s wasted two appointments on me ?!
Nick
Administrator
My issue is as Steve said, it does vary between doctors.
Last time I spoke to a doctor they just palmed it off as covid the whole call. I told them I had a negative PCR result that day. "Do another".
Turns out it was an issue with medication.
Of course people need to be paid to do the vaccine but when they are giving a rise in how much per jab to Gps who couldn't give a fuck about you the rest of the time.
Last time I spoke to a doctor they just palmed it off as covid the whole call. I told them I had a negative PCR result that day. "Do another".
Turns out it was an issue with medication.
Of course people need to be paid to do the vaccine but when they are giving a rise in how much per jab to Gps who couldn't give a fuck about you the rest of the time.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It works as a triage with mine though, they filter the ones who just have a cough or a cold - means the doctors have more time to see the ones who actually need seeing.
I mean, take Monday - I have a blood pressure review, but there's no real need to see me in person, as anything they'll find out can be done as easily over the phone.
And if they're worried, I'll be there in the afternoon!
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
I went to Morrisons yesterday vast majority were wearing masks. People seem to have got on board with it pretty rapidly.
Nick
Administrator
Go in the coop round the corner.
The strange thing is, I'll be in a concourse tomorrow with hundreds of others. Does it apply there?