Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (5 Viewers)

[Nick]

The principle of the NHS is everyone's entitled to treatment but it's done by priority of need and where there is more people needing the service than it can accommodate, that's when you have to further prioritise. Until we reach such a point it's unhelpful to start discussing who should be denied treatment. It's the kind of decision no doctor ever wants to have to make

I am just saying it's a very slippery slope.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I am just saying it's a very slippery slope.

That's a logical fallacy

 

[Nick]

Which is exactly what I just pointed out. I clearly said they’re listening to the same bollocks right said Fred spout.

How do you know?

 

[clint van damme]

So it's not relevant how many people are hospitalised due to obesity and putting strain on the NHS?

You haven't said about denying people treatment or locking them down, others have and that's just why I am pointing out it's a slippery slope to go down as where does it end.

No its not relevant in this instance.
There are things we can do in the here and now, mainly getting vacinnated, to help the spread of a virus that is causing a global pandemic and putting our health service under unprecedented pressure.

Obesity is an issue yes, and has been pointed out, one that there are ongoing strategies to tackle it as there are with other public health issues but bringing them up in this argument isjust an attempt at distraction.

 

[skybluetony176]

Oh it must be happening then.

I think the NHS got the extra funding, for what it was worth. But other measures he mentioned at the time such as a watershed for fast food advertising never happened. They also put the onus on the individuals rather than look at the wider causes such as environment. A typical lack of joined up thinking and hollow slogans from Boris and Co but to say that the combined risk of obesity and covid hasn’t been acknowledged and/or no effort has been taken to address it is incorrect.

 

[chiefdave]

The obesity argument is surely the same as the with covid or from covid argument. The number of people admitted to hospital with their weight as a primary cause is surprisingly low for a country where 63% of the population are classed as overweight, the most recent figures I can find on the NHS site are 11,117 a year.

 

[skybluetony176]

How do you know?

Because if you listen to the logical argument you would be vaccinated already. Only people listening to the unlogical arguments aren’t getting vaccinated.

 

[robbiekeane]

OK, so what about Obese people? At what point do they get refused treatment and categorised for clogging up the NHS because they chose to keep eating and choosing not to exercise etc.

There's an obsession with "clogging up beds" but how many are obese and how much could be prevented if they weren't?

Will that really get mentioned much?

Where does it end?

Because there’s not a fucking obesity pandemic that came out of nowhere taking up ventilators and ICU beds is there?

shows how shit your argument is when you say “what about obesity”.

yes obese people also need to sort their shit out and stop eating. That doesn’t mean people not getting a vaccine which is the only way out of this shitshow is okay

Honestly I think everyone on this board can tell that in the last 3 weeks you’ve lost your head with this and this omicron bullshit is the straw that broke the camels back with you and I completely empathise. But my god you’re coming out with some horseshit recently

 

[Nick]

No its not relevant in this instance.
There are things we can do in the here and now, mainly getting vacinnated, to help the spread of a virus that is causing a global pandemic and putting our health service under unprecedented pressure.

Obesity is an issue yes, and has been pointed out, one that there are ongoing strategies to tackle it as there are with other public health issues but bringing them up in this argument isjust an attempt at distraction.

I am talking also in terms of COVID. There's been no real push to cut it down in relation to COVID.

Yeah there might be a sugar tax on a can of coke but not really going to do much.

People can always start, yeah it's not as instant as a vaccine and I'm by no means saying "Dont get vaccinated just go to the gym every week" but surely if we want to protect the NHS then that should really be pushed hard too.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No its not relevant in this instance.
There are things we can do in the here and now, mainly getting vacinnated, to help the spread of a virus that is causing a global pandemic and putting our health service under unprecedented pressure.

Obesity is an issue yes, and has been pointed out, one that there are ongoing strategies to tackle it as there are with other public health issues but bringing them up in this argument isjust an attempt at distraction.

Yeah good point that

 

[robbiekeane]

So why is there no massive push for people to lose weight to also protect them from COVID? Why aren't people being shamed for that? If anything in the first lockdown, it was almost encouraged the way there was the "one walk a day" type shite.

Nobody sane shags in those toilets, clearly it's the park up the road.

You’ve lost your head mate. Time for a break I reckon.

 

[Nick]

Because there’s not a fucking obesity pandemic that came out of nowhere taking up ventilators and ICU beds is there?

shows how shit your argument is when you say “what about obesity”.

yes obese people also need to sort their shit out and stop eating. That doesn’t mean people not getting a vaccine which is the only way out of this shitshow is okay

Honestly I think everyone on this board can tell that in the last 3 weeks you’ve lost your head with this and this omicron bullshit is the straw that broke the camels back with you and I completely empathise. But my god you’re coming out with some horseshit recently

Well yeah, how many people taking up ventilators and ICU beds are obese?

The vaccine was "the only way out" a year ago.

I'd say that vaccinating a fit and healthy 18 year old in the UK 3 times is pretty pointless when you have people in other countries who are vulnerable who won't be able to get one.

 

[stupot07]

No its not relevant in this instance.
There are things we can do in the here and now, mainly getting vacinnated, to help the spread of a virus that is causing a global pandemic and putting our health service under unprecedented pressure.

Obesity is an issue yes, and has been pointed out, one that there are ongoing strategies to tackle it as there are with other public health issues but bringing them up in this argument isjust an attempt at distraction.

Get vaccination
Wear a mask
Social distance

Thats all that is being asked of people.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Sick Boy]

Well yeah, how many people taking up ventilators and ICU beds are obese?

The vaccine was "the only way out" a year ago.

I'd say that vaccinating a fit and healthy 18 year old in the UK 3 times is pretty pointless when you have people in other countries who are vulnerable who won't be able to get one.

The lack of a global perspective is definitely a concern and is going to prolong the pandemic. The whole world beating vaccine nonsense and point scoring around it from Johnson was majorly crass.

 

[Nick]

You’ve lost your head mate. Time for a break I reckon.

Ironic really considering you would be at the front of the queue demanding anybody unvaccinated should be locked away and not given treatment.

 

[Marty]

The truth is finally coming out. They don't want you to get vaccinated to save Doris down the road, it's to save themselves as they can't be bothered to control their eating habits.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ironic really considering you would be at the front of the queue demanding anybody unvaccinated should be locked away and not given treatment.

Where has anyone demanded people get locked up?

 

[Nick]

Where has anyone demanded people get locked up?

He has suggested unvaccinated get locked down and no treatment hasn't he?

 

[chiefdave]

Well yeah, how many people taking up ventilators and ICU beds are obese?

Can't find those figures, sure they exist somewhere. Closest I can find is data for people who've died from covid.

By far the biggest group in terms of comorbidities is dementia and alzheimer's disease which accounts for over 25%. Also in the top 5 are Ischaemic heart diseases (10%), influenza and pneumonia (9%), no pre-existing condition (9%) and chronic lower respiratory diseases (8%).

The data does exist for the US. According to the CDC the figures for hospitalisations is 78% but 74% of Americans fall into that category so oddly that would seem to suggest its not an issue.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'd say that vaccinating a fit and healthy 18 year old in the UK 3 times is pretty pointless when you have people in other countries who are vulnerable who won't be able to get one.

That is actually a reasonable point to make. The point not being that it’s pointless to give a healthy 18 year old a booster as ultimately it’s helpful, but to argue that it’s not as pressing of an issue as vaccinated the rest of the world, especially developing countries.

We’ve possibly gotten lucky this time that omnicron is less severe all be it more transmissible but the next variant that occurs in a region where vaccination is low and the virus has run riot allowing it to mutate into a new variant maybe more severe and more transmissible. Which oddly if it did occur justifies getting healthy 18 year olds double jabbed and boostered in preparation for just such an occurrence.

 

[chiefdave]

The point not being that it’s pointless to give a healthy 18 year old a booster as ultimately it’s helpful, but to argue that it’s not as pressing of an issue as vaccinated the rest of the world, especially developing countries.

There's some potentially good news on getting the rest of the world vaccinated. As we know the issue has been the companies who have developed the vaccines refusing to relax the patents to allow mass production at low cost. However it looks like there could be a new vaccine where those restrictions don't apply.

A COVID Vaccine for All

With proved technology and no-frills tech transfer, CORBEVAX is poised to reach hundreds of millions in the coming weeks

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[Nick]

That is actually a reasonable point to make. The point not being that it’s pointless to give a healthy 18 year old a booster as ultimately it’s helpful, but to argue that it’s not as pressing of an issue as vaccinated the rest of the world, especially developing countries.

We’ve possibly gotten lucky this time that omnicron is less severe all be it more transmissible but the next variant that occurs in a region where vaccination is low and the virus has run riot allowing it to mutate into a new variant maybe more severe and more transmissible. Which oddly if it did occur justifies getting healthy 18 year olds double jabbed and boostered in preparation for just such an occurrence.

Well no because if it was a different variant there would be another couple of boosters needed anyway.

At what point will people be getting boosted multiple times a year for the sake of it? I totally get highly vulnerable people (like the Flu jab where it's mostly pushed at older people etc).

Hopefully, will see that if people get Omicron then it cuts down reinfection of COVID anyway.

 

[Nick]

There's some potentially good news on getting the rest of the world vaccinated. As we know the issue has been the companies who have developed the vaccines refusing to relax the patents to allow mass production at low cost. However it looks like there could be a new vaccine where those restrictions don't apply.

A COVID Vaccine for All

With proved technology and no-frills tech transfer, CORBEVAX is poised to reach hundreds of millions in the coming weeks

www.scientificamerican.com

You would think if this works then the big Countries should also back this and boycott the "big boys" who have been all about the money.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well no because if it was a different variant there would be another couple of boosters needed anyway.

At what point will people be getting boosted multiple times a year for the sake of it? I totally get highly vulnerable people (like the Flu jab where it's mostly pushed at older people etc).

Hopefully, will see that if people get Omicron then it cuts down reinfection of COVID anyway.

The point of the booster is to boost the waning of the initial vaccine. Clue is in the word boost. A new variant makes the need more urgent. You’ve misunderstood the point of the booster. If another new variant comes to the fore today having already had your booster doesn’t mean you’ll immediately have to have another one. There’s been a number of new variants over the last year and we haven’t had a new jab every time one has come to light. Stop being a drama queen of nonsense.

 

[robbiekeane]

He has suggested unvaccinated get locked down and no treatment hasn't he?

Did I say locked away? Can you quote?

 

[Nick]

The point of the booster is to boost the waning of the initial vaccine. Clue is in the word boost. A new variant makes the need more urgent. You’ve misunderstood the point of the booster. If another new variant comes to the fore today having already had your booster doesn’t mean you’ll immediately have to have another one. There’s been a number of new variants over the last year and we haven’t had a new jab every time one has come to light. Stop being a drama queen of nonsense.

Yes, so while an 18 year old here is then needing their 5th booster for something that 99.99% would give them a cold for a couple of days there will be people potentially on their 1st in other countries.

There are plenty of variants of cold and flu every year that might kill an 80 year old with serious health problems but an 18 year old wouldn't even know they had it.

 

[Nick]

Did I say locked away? Can you quote?

Lockdown for the unvaccinated. Yep.

 

[robbiekeane]

Lockdown for the unvaccinated. Yep.

So not “locked away” then? Also, that quote…?

 

[Nick]

So not “locked away” then? Also, that quote…?

Well yeah, people locked away in their homes while everybody else carries on as normal.

I wouldn't have said that you said it without confirming it first.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes, so while an 18 year old here is then needing their 5th booster for something that 99.99% would give them a cold for a couple of days there will be people potentially on their 1st in other countries.

There are plenty of variants of cold and flu every year that might kill an 80 year old with serious health problems but an 18 year old wouldn't even know they had it.

And for decades we’ve offered vulnerable people flu jabs. I myself have qualified for decades because I have asthma. The point is that covid 19 isn’t just killing the vulnerable in big numbers and the ring around vulnerable to covid 19 is bigger than the ring around seasonal flu because so many more groups have extra vulnerability against covid than they do flu. Even things like ethnicity and male baldness can increase your vulnerability to covid. You can’t say the same about seasonal flu.

 

[Nick]

And for decades we’ve offered vulnerable people flu jabs. I myself have qualified for decades because I have asthma. The point is that covid 19 isn’t just killing the vulnerable in big numbers and the ring around vulnerable to covid 19 is bigger than the ring around seasonal flu because so many more groups have extra vulnerability against covid than they do flu. Even things like ethnicity and male baldness can increase your vulnerability to covid. You can’t say the same about seasonal flu.

Yeah that's why I said the flu jab which is offered and not forced.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah that's why I said the flu jab which is offered and not forced.

But the flu is no where near as contagious or deadly as covid.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Do you think we'll be having the same arguments this time next year?

 

[Nick]

Do you think we'll be having the same arguments this time next year?

Yep. Sadly.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But the flu is no where near as contagious or deadly as covid.

Erm it is still pretty contagious and unlike COVID it’s always symptomatic. Think it was winter 2018 we had over 20,000 flu deaths despite an established vaccination program. Not sure how this winter’s COVID deaths are looking by comparison