Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (296 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

No it's pretty obvious that the cabinet was chosen based on their Brexit stance. Whether you think they are any good or not, that's up to you. But they got their cabinet jobs based on their Brexit stance.

Our Home Secretary was all but sacked for secret meetings with foreign officials, and willing to funnel our money into a foreign army.

But she likes Brexit so now she's Home Secretary.

talking of Great British Independence..

 

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[clint van damme]

Not sure lockdown is ending any time soon unfortunately Clint. I’m guessing measures might start to be relaxed in coming weeks (mid/late May ?)

There will be pressure on the government to relax them sooner but hopefully whoever’s in charge will follow the scientific/medical advice. That’s all we can ask for.

ps I know some might disagree with me but I think we can see (or at least appreciate) on the behavioural science side of things, why there was a want/need to leave the lockdown until as late as possible in order to get maximum benefit and minimise it’s negative impacts. Domestic violence up 25%, kids being kept out of school away from their friends, economic impact for millions (which is likely to have subsequent impact on health) and increased anxiety/depression will no doubt be another major symptom. Comments about the government and their advisors ‘dithering’ etc when making the original decision (not you Clint) need to consider the bigger, wider picture. Every decision made will have positive and negative impacts elsewhere. It’s trying to make sure even if there are negative implications, the positives outweigh them

I agree regarding length of lockdown but Johnson won't be back by then.
Listening to people this morning who'd came out of ICU he's going to need at least 6 weeks, probably longer.

 

[clint van damme]

In fairness to Raab, he's not the only one. They entire party (bar one MP) voted against the payrise.

And then cheered when they won.

Yep. They're cunts.

 

[David O'Day]

Not sure lockdown is ending any time soon unfortunately Clint. I’m guessing measures might start to be relaxed in coming weeks (mid/late May ?)

There will be pressure on the government to relax them sooner but hopefully whoever’s in charge will follow the scientific/medical advice. That’s all we can ask for.

ps I know some might disagree with me but I think we can see (or at least appreciate) on the behavioural science side of things, why there was a want/need to leave the lockdown until as late as possible in order to get maximum benefit and minimise it’s negative impacts. Domestic violence up 25%, kids being kept out of school away from their friends, economic impact for millions (which is likely to have subsequent impact on health) and increased anxiety/depression will no doubt be another major symptom. Comments about the government and their advisors ‘dithering’ etc when making the original decision (not you Clint) need to consider the bigger, wider picture. Every decision made will have positive and negative impacts elsewhere. It’s trying to make sure even if there are negative implications, the positives outweigh them

Behavioral science is really really fucking important

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

He's another one who hates the NHS Dom. You are aware of that.
He said nurses didn't deserve proposed 1 percent pay rise. Do you agree with him Dom?

If he did say that then its terrible

 

[David O'Day]

Its just called getting behind someone who's trying to lead our country through this terrible time, should try it instead of making petty comments like that

We are allowed to point out he isn't very good.

 

[David O'Day]

If he did say that then its terrible

Yes but public sector pay freezes were tory policy

 

[CCFCSteve]

your points would carry more weight had the govt not continually contradicted themselves and been caught out lying. They changed their entire strategy based on the findings of the Cambridge study, the delay may well have benefits for all any of us know, but it was based on having a terrible plan, having it pointed out to them that it would kill hundreds of thousands and having to U turn.

Correct, they followed the advice and data from Imperial College C-19 response team which was set up to advise the government

 

[clint van damme]

If he did say that then its terrible

They all voted for it Dom. They cheered when they won the vote.
They've all colluded to ensure NHS staff dont have PPE. You voted for them Dom.

But stand on your door step clapping once a week and tell yourself you love the NHS along with the rest of the hypocrites.

 

[PVA]

If he did say that then its terrible

Oh Dom

 

[Grendel]

They all voted for it Dom. They cheered when they won the vote.
They've all colluded to ensure NHS staff dont have PPE. You voted for them Dom.

But stand on your door step clapping once a week and tell yourself you love the NHS along with the rest of the hypocrites.

Sorry this is nonsense.

The government had a clear policy at the time of wage restraint in the public sector and the labour amendment which wasn’t just aimed at NHS staff was always going to be defeated and was a publicity stunt

You talk about pay restraint as if it’s a conservative thing. It isn’t - In the 70’s the labour government (the last real labour government of you believe the left) has a pay restraint policy across the whole of public and private sector and worked in collusion with the unions to achieve this. It was 10% pts below the cost of living

Now even with Johnson not yet dead labour are attempting a national government with 50% labour having half the shadow cabinet - pure opportunism

Collusion to prevent PPE equipment is an extraordinary statement

 

[skybluetony176]

The first stage of lockdown ending is likely to be sections of society going back to work to get some of the economy going, while social activities will still be banned, which I think will disappoint a lot of people.

Which is ironic because that should please people as it’s clearly going to be the right thing to do.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Correct, they followed the advice and data from Imperial College C-19 response team which was set up to advise the government

The Imperial College team stepped in and warned the government that the plan they had started off with would kill 250,000 people. So our government had to change direction, causing more delays. I know there is a temptation to edit history here, because they have presided over one of the biggest mistakes any government has ever made, but they are the facts here.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Looks like that link might not work- here's the first patagraph- "About 250,000 people would have died in the UK under the government’s previous strategy for dealing with the coronavirus crisis", according to Imperial College researchers.

 

[skybluetony176]

talking of Great British Independence..

Out means out. This isn’t what we voted for.

 

[Grendel]

Also as this forum now seems to have become a small band of left wing frothers venting their spleen perhaps one of you can explain the labour policy on politicians pay

The Blair government voted several times for inflation busting pay rises and then an independent body was set up

In 2015 it suggested a £7,000 pay rise in austerity Britain for MPs

Many labour MPs said it sent out a wrong message. The SNP MPs gave the pay rise to charity. However, despite the indignation I do not think any Labour MP did the same or indeed in 2017 when the rise was around 3% - there may be some but I can’t find any

 

[skybluetony176]

which wasn’t just aimed at NHS staff

No it wasn’t, it was also aimed at Firefighters and the police. Are you saying that people who put their lives on the line on a regular basis to serve the public don’t deserve a 1%+ pay rise and that’s something to cheer about? That’s pretty disgusting. For someone who attempted to come over all moralistic last night you’ve very quickly returned to type.

Out of interest what did the same partying MP’s vote in for themselves as a pay rise that year? 2.7% wasn’t it?

 

[clint van damme]

Sorry this is nonsense.

The government had a clear policy at the time of wage restraint in the public sector and the labour amendment which wasn’t just aimed at NHS staff was always going to be defeated and was a publicity stunt

You talk about pay restraint as if it’s a conservative thing. It isn’t - In the 70’s the labour government (the last real labour government of you believe the left) has a pay restraint policy across the whole of public and private sector and worked in collusion with the unions to achieve this. It was 10% pts below the cost of living

Now even with Johnson not yet dead labour are attempting a national government with 50% labour having half the shadow cabinet - pure opportunism

Collusion to prevent PPE equipment is an extraordinary statement

If it's not collusion it's incompetence.
Raab Said in January we're ready for the pandemic. Was he lying or just being incompetent?
I don't give a fuck about Labour in the 70s. Ridiculous whatabouttery. This government has been at the helm for 10 years - It's all on them

 

[PVA]

At least you're a bit less sweary this morning Grendel. How's the head?

You still haven't explained Johnson's handshake gaffe yet by the way despite numerous requests.

 

[Grendel]

No it wasn’t, it was also aimed at Firefighters and the police. Are you saying that people who put their lives on the line on a regular basis to serve the public don’t deserve a 1%+ pay rise and that’s something to cheer about? That’s pretty disgusting. For someone who attempted to come over all moralistic last night you’ve very quickly returned to type.

Out of interest what did the same partying MP’s vote in for themselves as a pay rise that year? 2.7% wasn’t it?

Firefighters don’t work in the NHS

You voted for them in 2015 and 2017 “Conservatives every time” you said - shall I show you.

Have they removed the committee and now vote for pay rises? Did t know this - did labour vote against it

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

Also as this forum now seems to have become a small band of left wing frothers venting their spleen perhaps one of you can explain the labour policy on politicians pay

The Blair government voted several times for inflation busting pay rises and then an independent body was set up

In 2015 it suggested a £7,000 pay rise in austerity Britain for MPs

Many labour MPs said it sent out a wrong message. The SNP MPs gave the pay rise to charity. However, despite the indignation I do not think any Labour MP did the same or indeed in 2017 when the rise was around 3% - there may be some but I can’t find any

Nice to see you coming out of hiding after running off last night once being proved wrong.

Another bout of classic Grendel whataboutery though by the way, a great performance although I'm surprised that you failed to mention Macron or the EU, aren't they your usual attack points? Oh well, at least you got your like from Lapdog Dom.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Also as this forum now seems to have become a small band of left wing frothers venting their spleen perhaps one of you can explain the labour policy on politicians pay

The Blair government voted several times for inflation busting pay rises and then an independent body was set up

In 2015 it suggested a £7,000 pay rise in austerity Britain for MPs

Many labour MPs said it sent out a wrong message. The SNP MPs gave the pay rise to charity. However, despite the indignation I do not think any Labour MP did the same or indeed in 2017 when the rise was around 3% - there may be some but I can’t find any

I don't think you are in any position to talk about people frothing after your exertions yesterday, that was the mother of all meltdowns

 

[clint van damme]

Also as this forum now seems to have become a small band of left wing frothers venting their spleen perhaps one of you can explain the labour policy on politicians pay

The Blair government voted several times for inflation busting pay rises and then an independent body was set up

In 2015 it suggested a £7,000 pay rise in austerity Britain for MPs

Many labour MPs said it sent out a wrong message. The SNP MPs gave the pay rise to charity. However, despite the indignation I do not think any Labour MP did the same or indeed in 2017 when the rise was around 3% - there may be some but I can’t find any

I would never support a pay rise for Mps while public se for workers are experiencing pay freezes or below inflation rises. It's a piss take.
But again, don't give a fuck about the Blair government, this government has been at the helm for 10 years, it's all on them.

 

[Grendel]

If it's not collusion it's incompetence.
Raab Said in January we're ready for the pandemic. Was he lying or just being incompetent?
I don't give a fuck about Labour in the 70s. Ridiculous whatabouttery. This government has been at the helm for 10 years - It's all on them

Every country believed they could control it - every country is scrambling for PPE and every country is struggling - how can you handle a pandemic that has been like no other.

It’s not whataboutery - don’t be foolish - labour didn’t care about the staff it was a cheap piece of opportunism to get headlines

 

[Grendel]

Nice to see you coming out of hiding after running off last night once being proved wrong.

Another bout of classic Grendel whataboutery though by the way, a great performance although I'm surprised that you failed to mention Macron or the EU, aren't they your usual attack points? Oh well, at least you got your like from Lapdog Dom.

I didn’t run off? Oh and I wasn’t proved wrong. As I say there is no discussion on any subjects here now and anyone attempting defence of the elected government (by a significant majority) is going to have the left wing cabal taking pot shots

Fire away

 

[skybluetony176]

Firefighters don’t work in the NHS

You voted for them in 2015 and 2017 “Conservatives every time” you said - shall I show you.

Have they removed the committee and now vote for pay rises? Did t know this - did labour vote against it

I never said they did. I was pointing out that the Labour amendment wasn’t just for NHS staff as you quite rightly pointed out. It was for all emergency services which you conveniently ignore.

I know what my voting history is and I don’t deny my past mistakes so you don’t need to show me and what’s that got to do with anything anyway is beyond me. More diversion from your own immoral opinion I guess.

Labour didn’t cheer and celebrate when the Tories and DUP denied the emergency services a 1%+ pay rise. That was left to the Tories and DUP.

 

[skybluetony176]

I didn’t run off? Oh and I wasn’t proved wrong. As I say there is no discussion on any subjects here now and anyone attempting defence of the elected government (by a significant majority) is going to have the left wing cabal taking pot shots

Fire away

You were proven wrong when the correct press conference was posted on here numerous times. You have to be the most ignorant person I’ve ever come across.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Grendel why do you have to resort to referring back 50 years to Labour policy of the 70s? We are in the here and now of a national crisis and Raab is now the man in control ! His track record needs scrutiny Dover/ Nurses etc etc. Seriously hope for all our families he proves capable. Many of us have fundamental doubts about him and given the inept bunch of Brexit frothers in current cabinet its more likely to be an unmitigating disaster. I never thought Id say it but BoJo is by miles the best and only option for Conservative leadership .

 

[Grendel]

I don't think you are in any position to talk about people frothing after your exertions yesterday, that was the mother of all meltdowns

The left always scream death to Tory leaders - same with thatcher and even many of them towards Blair - drag to to The Hague and out him in prison - some are now suggesting a national holiday to celebrate Johnson’s death

The left are always going to act like this as they are always in the minority and always show their true colours in times like this

If people show respect ad dignity they will get the same from me - if they don’t they won’t

 

[Moff]

Out means out. This isn’t what we voted for.

It works both ways Tony, if so why are we tied into EU rules until 31/12/20?

 

[PVA]

The left always scream death to Tory leaders - same with thatcher and even many of them towards Blair - drag to to The Hague and out him in prison - some are now suggesting a national holiday to celebrate Johnson’s death

The left are always going to act like this as they are always in the minority and always show their true colours in times like this

If people show respect ad dignity they will get the same from me - if they don’t they won’t

'Operation Last Gasp'

Such respect and dignity from our dear leader.

 

[clint van damme]

Every country believed they could control it - every country is scrambling for PPE and every country is struggling - how can you handle a pandemic that has been like no other.

It’s not whataboutery - don’t be foolish - labour didn’t care about the staff it was a cheap piece of opportunism to get headlines

Why did Raab say we were prepared for the pandemic in January? Lying or incompetence?
Why have we missed every testing target?
Lying or incompetence?
Of course, in such a unique situation there's going to be things that catch us cold.
Having said that, there are other countries, who have performed remarkably better than us.
Also not interested in Labour opportunism.
My comments are mine based on the fact that for me the NHS is a sacred cow and on my respect for their workers who are still daily telling horror stories of lack of equipment despite assurances.

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

The left always scream death to Tory leaders - same with thatcher and even many of them towards Blair - drag to to The Hague and out him in prison - some are now suggesting a national holiday to celebrate Johnson’s death

The left are always going to act like this as they are always in the minority and always show their true colours in times like this

If people show respect ad dignity they will get the same from me - if they don’t they won’t

What levels of disrespect and indignity did Maxime Biamou show to you to deserve his 2 and half year hate campaign then?

 

[skybluetony176]

Every country believed they could control it - every country is scrambling for PPE and every country is struggling - how can you handle a pandemic that has been like no other.

It’s not whataboutery - don’t be foolish - labour didn’t care about the staff it was a cheap piece of opportunism to get headlines

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. It isn’t every country either. The warning signs were there from SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu etc etc. Some countries did pay attention and were prepared.

 

[Grendel]

Grendel why do you have to resort to referring back 50 years to Labour policy of the 70s? We are in the here and now of a national crisis and Raab is now the man in control ! His track record needs scrutiny Dover/ Nurses etc etc. Seriously hope for all our families he proves capable. Many of us have fundamental doubts about him and given the inept bunch of Brexit frothers in current cabinet its more likely to be an unmitigating disaster. I never thought Id say it but BoJo is by miles the best and only option for Conservative leadership .

I go back to the 70’s as for many that’s the last labour government

People can have doubts but to start trying to point score and take pot shots on small individual issues is hardly going to get a polite response from me

I had one experience in an NHS a and e Ward when I was taken in with a suspected emergency. It’s corridors were rammed with people and many had no water and no access to any

It was 2006

 

[Grendel]

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. It isn’t every country either. The warning signs were there from SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu etc etc. Some countries did pay attention and were prepared.

Which European countries were prepared?