Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (9 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is what I said at the time and many tried to make out that I am a Tory voter.

Just look on here. Whatever Corbyn did he got full support. He was supposed to have done the right thing on not saying leave or remain clearly. A fair few did see it as a problem though.

And it is the same for both Labour and Tory voters. They only see what they want to see and ignore what is wrong. So you won't lose the hardcore voters easily. You need to aim for the floating voters. Most are not rich or poor. Free internet was never going to win their vote. Those who wanted out of the EU went Tory. Those who wanted to remain were spread over the parties. But they knew the things that wouldn't benefit them much would have to be paid for.

The Tories offered next to nothing. So there wasn't a lot to worry about.

Yes life is shit. If life is OK for the majority they don't need change. But offer them something that could improve their life and look realistic and you win votes.

Most people will say they care about those having a hard time in life. But when it comes to it most will vote for what is best for themselves.

That isn’t true is it, I don’t remember anyone except Ian saying that Corbyn would win and nobody was praising him at every turn. I wanted him gone for months before the election and just about put a cross in the box for Labour because the alternative was worse.

 

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[Wyken Sky Blue]

Norman Hunter has passed away after contracting Covid-19:
Norman Hunter: Leeds United legend dies after contracting coronavirus

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But not so left to alienate the floating voters.

Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.

But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.

Not more left than Corbyn but helping the Tories in 2014 has killed Labour up there. Just like helping the Tories killed the Lib Dems and the DUP.

 

[djr8369]

But not so left to alienate the floating voters.

Things changed when Scotland was lost to Labour. We need left wing policies but left wing policies don't get you in power anymore. The only chance we have is Starmer doing what John Smith did in the 90's. If not we will be under Tory rule for a long time.

In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.

G was right about one thing, policies don’t win elections. It’s all about conning a big enough coalition into believing you can do the job. The Tories have boomers and dumbasses and while we could get the dumbasses I think the boomers are ungettable without the media

 

[djr8369]

Does anybody else think the governments criteria for easing lock down is somewhat foolish considering they have spent the last few weeks telling us we have adequate PPE and any lack is just NHS staff feeling like they can't get enough of it and they are now saying testing is not being used to capacity as there isn't enough demand?

NHS must be able to cope and provide sufficient care - we still have spare beds before any of the new Nightingale hospitals are used.
Evidence showing a sustained and consistent fall in daily death rates - supposedly at the peak now so should start dropping in a week.
Reliable data showing the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels.- told last night Ro down below one in the community.
Confidence enough tests and PPE are at hand to use - apparently in hand.
Confidence any adjustments won’t trigger a second peak - unknown, can't see how this will ever be known?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not more left than Corbyn but helping the Tories in 2014 has killed Labour up there. Just like helping the Tories killed the Lib Dems and the DUP.

It would be nice to know how you manage to fool so many people it's the other part that's to blame not you. Common factor in all those scenarios - Tories. Yet the blame was taken by the LD, DUP and Labour.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It would be nice to know how you manage to fool so many people it's the other part that's to blame not you. Common factor in all those scenarios - Tories. Yet the blame was taken by the LD, DUP and Labour.

Those 3 parties tried to play fairly and got wiped off the floor. You don’t beat the Tories by playing by the rules-we have to be cynical and kick them in the balls

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Confidence any adjustments won’t trigger a second peak - unknown, can't see how this will ever be known?

Watching what happens in other countries who blink first would be a good indicator.

 

[skybluetony176]

You're definitely a floater alright

No ones shot his dingy yet to sink it so clearly he is a floating voter.

 

[djr8369]

G was right about one thing, policies don’t win elections. It’s all about conning a big enough coalition into believing you can do the job. The Tories have boomers and dumbasses and while we could get the dumbasses I think the boomers are ungettable without the media

Only thing you could do with the boomers is try and outdo the tories at their targeted messaging and spend millions on pretend think tanks and campaign groups. I doubt that will ever work now the boomers are living through their WW2 by staying at home, watching TV and clapping and can now finally shrug off the inadequacy they felt compared to their parents and grandparents.

This might sound harsh but the surge in support for Johnson shows the government are perceived as doing a good job and the community spirit (Blitz spirit if you will) will stick in people's heads. Unless they personally experience a loss or have a loved one who works in the NHS and is critical of the government there will be no change in allegiance away from the tories.

 

[djr8369]

Watching what happens in other countries who blink first would be a good indicator.

Yes that is the only thing I can think of.

Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?

 

[Johnnythespider]

Why Labour won’t get elected in a nutshell.

Can we please stop the petty infighting and actually try and win an election?

Precisely my point, people who wouldn't get behind Corbyn for the good of the party now telling people to get behind Starmer for the good of the party, and then saying we need left wing policies when the best we can hope for is tory lite, FWIW i voted for Starmer, hated doing it but we need to end this tory shit show, but i may not vote labour at an election as i don't think they ate going to offer the social reform i think we need, just more cap doffing and forelock tugging tradition.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Only thing you could do with the boomers is try and outdo the tories at their targeted messaging and spend millions on pretend think tanks and campaign groups. I doubt that will ever work now the boomers are living through their WW2 by staying at home, watching TV and clapping and can now finally shrug off the inadequacy they felt compared to their parents and grandparents.

This might sound harsh but the surge in support for Johnson shows the government are perceived as doing a good job and the community spirit (Blitz spirit if you will) will stick in people's heads. Unless they personally experience a loss or have a loved one who works in the NHS and is critical of the government there will be no change in allegiance away from the tories.

You would need a major news network on side along with a major right or centre right newspaper and that’s never happening here. Johnson has had the virus and will take the credit for it going away-it’s the equivalent of Churchill taking a bullet in terms of effect on popularity

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes that is the only thing I can think of.

Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?

tbf, it depends how you compare. I agree that comparing absolute numbers is futile. Even trends can be tenuous at times, but there is something to be said for comparing what happens in response to what.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Precisely my point, people who wouldn't get behind Corbyn for the good of the party now telling people to get behind Starmer for the good of the party, and then saying we need left wing policies when the best we can hope for is tory lite, FWIW i voted for Starmer, hated doing it but we need to end this tory shit show, but i may not vote labour at an election as i don't think they ate going to offer the social reform i think we need, just more cap doffing and forelock tugging tradition.

tbf, as previously mentioned, what he stood on was surprisingly left wing. I expected more moderate although tbf, it just shows what happens when a man wears a suit, they're perceived as being centre or right leaning!

 

[djr8369]

Yes that is the only thing I can think of.

Of course, that would be comparing apples and bananas and we would never do that would we?

On that, and going back to the governments communication, it was telling the other day when a journalist mentioned that France were including care home deaths in their stats and if we did the same we'd have somewhat higher deaths than they have. Of course, the journalist was quickly pointed out as being foolish to compare two different countries with different circumstances even though minutes before we had been shown the cumulative death graphs where it was pointed out we were doing well relative to France and Spain.

It's disturbing how often we are being asked to believe two conflicting ideas.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

On that, and going back to the governments communication, it was telling the other day when a journalist mentioned that France were including care home deaths in their stats and if we did the same we'd have somewhat higher deaths than they have. Of course, the journalist was quickly pointed out as being foolish to compare two different countries with different circumstances even though minutes before we had been shown the cumulative death graphs where it was pointed out we were doing well relative to France and Spain.

It's disturbing how often we are being asked to believe two conflicting ideas.

This is like two people comparing underwear after shitting themselves

 

[djr8369]

tbf, it depends how you compare. I agree that comparing absolute numbers is futile. Even trends can be tenuous at times, but there is something to be said for comparing what happens in response to what.

Yes quite, I was being facetious as "not comparing apples and oranges" and such is so frequently being used as a get out for any questioning of how well the government has handled things.

 

[djr8369]

This is like two people comparing underwear after shitting themselves

The government has not shit itself it is just following the science which is mixed on the effectiveness of toilets.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The government has not shit itself it is just following the science which is mixed on the effectiveness of toilets.

We’re doing better than France because they had diarrhoea and it went everywhere but we had a solid Yule log and haven’t sat down yet so time to scrape it out into the bog

 

[skybluetony176]

I see the latest right wing conspiracy is that Bill Gates done it. It’s gaining traction with Trump supporters too.

 

[Johnnythespider]

tbf, as previously mentioned, what he stood on was surprisingly left wing. I expected more moderate although tbf, it just shows what happens when a man wears a suit, they're perceived as being centre or right leaning!

I'm giving him a chance, we'll see how it pans out over the next 5 years

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm giving him a chance, we'll see how it pans out over the next 5 years

I predict:

Tories 350-400
Labour 200-250
SNP 30-50
LD 0-20

 

[djr8369]

Looking at this infographic from a Mail online article and it looks like it is based on the artwork of the board game Pandemic.

 

[Astute]

But Labour lost out to the SNP in Scotland, another left wing party. Arguably more left than Labour is.

Labour lost out in Scotland to.a Scottish party. Not said anything differently but of course some will make out I have. Nothing to do with left, right or down the middle.

My comment was all about Labour having to make up the difference in the rest of the UK.

 

[Astute]

I'm giving him a chance, we'll see how it pans out over the next 5 years

We will know well within 5 years. We will know within 5 months. Should we not say anything if we think he is useless at being leader for the next 5 years?

 

[tisza]

would have thought the next election will still be about Brexit.
Either the country "survives" it and moves forward then it'll be a Tory win.
It's not worked out and Labour will be promising to fix it (and win)

 

[Astute]

would have thought the next election will still be about Brexit.
Either the country "survives" it and moves forward then it'll be a Tory win.
It's not worked out and Labour will be promising to fix it (and win)

We are about to have a worldwide recession. Nobody knows what will happen in the next 12 months.

If we do badly but the EU manages to recover there will be calls to rejoin. If we recover but the EU does badly it won't be seen as a choice to take.

 

[Astute]

In fairness Astute I don't think policies make a dammed bit of difference these days. It's all personality, perception and framing.

Which is what I kept saying last year. But I was wrong then.

Policies that worry people makes a difference. No policies doesn't worry the majority. The world has gone mad.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is what I kept saying last year. But I was wrong then.

Policies that worry people makes a difference. No policies doesn't worry the majority. The world has gone mad.

The Tory manifesto of 2017 contained promises to not pay nurses and teachers properly

 

[Ian1779]

You're just a one eyed arsehole. It's the likes of you that labour need to rid itself of. Maybe then the labour party will appeal to the normal every day man in the street and not arrogant cocks like you.

If you think I’m the problem with Labour then you’re even thicker than I thought. Loving Brexit and wanting to drown migrants doesn’t make you working class - it makes you an arsehole.

 

[clint van damme]

In fairness to Starmer even his very even handed comment that now isn't a time for political point scoring but the government needs to be held to account was reported out of context and described as political point scoring. Presumably he is trying to walk a very fine line. The tories have incredible levels of loyalty from a large portion of the nation due to Brexit of the creative use of propaganda and it is going to be very difficult for labour to start to eat away at that. It certainly won't happen by being heavy handed while everyone is on edge and Johnson's ratings are going up even though we are one of the hardest hit and worse prepared countries.

I totally disagree. We've tried the civil discourse under Corbyn it doesn't work.
We also seen Piers Morgan reach new levels of popularity since launching his daily attacks on the government. People want them held to account, even Michael Gove said they should be scrutinised.

 

[clint van damme]

Which is what I kept saying last year. But I was wrong then.

Policies that worry people makes a difference. No policies doesn't worry the majority. The world has gone mad.

so you must be worried about Starmer then as there's not a lot of difference between what he's pledged and the 2019 manifesto.
Unless you think the offer of free broadband was the big issue of the election.