Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (3 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

They are not full left wing as many seem to want. What you are questioning between the lines is can he be left wing enough.

What would you prefer. A Labour leader that appeals to many and can get voted in or total left wing that will stay in opposition?

his policies are left wing, they're not massively different from the last manifesto.
Again, I'm happy with his pledges, lets see if he can a) sell it and b) deliver.
But first he's got to stop the party tearing itself apart while holding the tories to account. That will be the hardest bit.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

But first he's got to stop the party tearing itself apart while holding the tories to account. That will be the hardest bit.

It will be. History tends to repeat itself, but I really hope we're not going to repeat the Kinnock years where his time was spent straightening the party out, rather than winning elections.

 

[Astute]

We were beat from Day 1 because we pursued the PV nonsense...

We had to hold the North, Wales, maintain in Scotland, and take Leave voting seats in England to have realistically forced the Tories out... that wasn’t exactly reading the room was it?

Which is what I said at the time and many tried to make out that I am a Tory voter.

Just look on here. Whatever Corbyn did he got full support. He was supposed to have done the right thing on not saying leave or remain clearly. A fair few did see it as a problem though.

And it is the same for both Labour and Tory voters. They only see what they want to see and ignore what is wrong. So you won't lose the hardcore voters easily. You need to aim for the floating voters. Most are not rich or poor. Free internet was never going to win their vote. Those who wanted out of the EU went Tory. Those who wanted to remain were spread over the parties. But they knew the things that wouldn't benefit them much would have to be paid for.

The Tories offered next to nothing. So there wasn't a lot to worry about.

Yes life is shit. If life is OK for the majority they don't need change. But offer them something that could improve their life and look realistic and you win votes.

Most people will say they care about those having a hard time in life. But when it comes to it most will vote for what is best for themselves.

 

[The coventrian]

What a load of utter drivel, do you even know what you're talking about?

Head firmly in sand.

 

[The coventrian]

It’s like those Facebook algorithms were written just for you.

You're just a one eyed arsehole. It's the likes of you that labour need to rid itself of. Maybe then the labour party will appeal to the normal every day man in the street and not arrogant cocks like you.

 

[The coventrian]

That’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Labour went into the last election offering to cut your bills, create thousands of well paid unionised and skilled jobs, build council houses, raise the NMW and tons more that would benefit the working class.

You haven’t given one actual reason Labour are against the working class because you don’t have one. You have a feeling because youve been told that by a thousand Facebook memes and because Corbyn doesn’t hate immigrants.

You’ve been had mate. You e been conned. The Tories don’t give a shit about you and if you’re honest you can’t actually name anything past Brexit that they’re offering and even that you don’t know what’ll benefit you.

The Tories had the thinnest manifesto in history. They’re cutting services and stripping workers rights and you’ve been conned into voting for them by tickling your patriotism bone.

It’s so telling that so many of you guys go on and on and on about Labour but never say what’s so great about the Tories. Like someone who’s wife left them and they can’t shut up about them. You obviously care about Labour, it screams out of every post.

Point missed completely. You're so entrenched in your opinions you wont listen to a neutral. Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.

 

[Astute]

he made a statement regarding Raab this morning, it was read out of 5Live, 5Live asked for a response from the government, they didn't get one.
Why didn't he use that platform for a more aggressive from of attack. Do you really need me to tell you the leader of the opposition can speak through the national media if they choose, whether or not Parliament is sitting?

So you agree with me then. He can ask what he wants but won't get any answers. We will have to wait until they reconvene.

 

[Astute]

if you think he's worthy of praise, tell me why. If I think he is I will. I'm not impressed with his start, you're only reply to that is give him chance.
I am giving him a chance but I'm still going to question him.

This is getting silly again.

Show me where I have said he is worthy of anything other than a chance to do something about the situation.

Yet you will say you are not having a go at him and are willing to give him a chance.....

 

[clint van damme]

So you agree with me then. He can ask what he wants but won't get any answers. We will have to wait until they reconvene.

no I don't agree, not getting answers isn't the point.
His statement was read out but it was wishy washy. He should be attacking the tories and the listenership of that program would have heard him.
It doesn't matter if the tories do or not, but if his attack hits the spot you can gurantee they'll be made aware.
He needs to start getting the message of how poor this government is through to the electorate.
This don't politicise the crisis is bollocks. The tories politicised it when they had a go at footballers and NHS staff.
At the minute opposition is piers Morgan and Rachael Burden.

 

[Astute]

It will be. History tends to repeat itself, but I really hope we're not going to repeat the Kinnock years where his time was spent straightening the party out, rather than winning elections.

Sadly I think he is going to have to spend too much time sorting out the infighting.

I can't get my head around those who said we should back a Labour leader whatever but when we get a new Labour leader at a time of lockdown we should expect someone to come in and change things immediately. Some people need to understand they can't travel like normally. They can't have meetings like normally. They are not sitting in parliament like normal. This is where the questions will be hard to ignore.

As long as he is making plans whilst not being able to do much more we should be OK. But I am not going to knock him yet.

 

[clint van damme]

This is getting silly again.

Show me where I have said he is worthy of anything other than a chance to do something about the situation.

Yet you will say you are not having a go at him and are willing to give him a chance.....

No, wrong again, I am having a go at him and giving him a chance, both things are possible.
I've said he did the right thing clearing out the Corbynites, Corbyn should have did it with the centrists when he was elected and it was a big mistake not purging his enemies.

But if you give him credit for that then you've also got to criticise him for falling in to another trap Corbyn did which was trying to civilise the political debate. It failed (unfortunately) but Starmer in his first week or two seems to be making the same mistake.

 

[PVA]

Labour will never have an election win under there current guise. The working class are not interested in the left wing. The working class have deserted labour in there droves. I guess if your left wing and working class labour are great at the moment,but not for the majority of us in this country. I'm.a floating voter. I have no affiliation to any party. I'd not vote for labour though until they shake off this leftie tag. Labour have forgotten who they're supposed to represent. I work in manufacturing,arent labour supposed to be the party for the likes of me? The party for the people? Nobody I work with votes labour. I'd vote labour again in the future but not at the moment. The way the labour party is represented on here is how the floating voter sees them. Frothing left wingers who scream and shout nazi,racist,bigot at you if you disagree with them or dare raise a genuine question about something. This is why floating voters like me are kind of forced to vote Tory. I'm not getting pulled into a discussion about all this by the labour party 'enthusiasts' on here as you just cant seem to reason with them. They seem to be more into the labour party than they are the city. Like I've said,labour need to win back us,the working class neutral types we dont feel like you represent us anymore,no the Tories dont represent the working class but we know what the Tories are about,looking after the Tories but at least they dont pretend to represent the working class like labour do. Que the usual frothing idiots.

*their
*you're

 

[clint van damme]

Sadly I think he is going to have to spend too much time sorting out the infighting.

I can't get my head around those who said we should back a Labour leader whatever but when we get a new Labour leader at a time of lockdown we should expect someone to come in and change things immediately. Some people need to understand they can't travel like normally. They can't have meetings like normally. They are not sitting in parliament like normal. This is where the questions will be hard to ignore.

As long as he is making plans whilst not being able to do much more we should be OK. But I am not going to knock him yet.

I agree, but he's started slowly, people should have been suspended over these allegations, that's standard practice. It's happened before in the Labour party, it would happen in most workplaces.
If an allegation of racism or bullying is proven and that person was allowed to carry on in the workplace during the investigation it opens up a real can of worms.

 

[PVA]

Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.

And you'll carry on clapping the NHS on your doorstep.

 

[Astute]

no I don't agree, not getting answers isn't the point.
His statement was read out but it was wishy washy. He should be attacking the tories and the listenership of that program would have heard him.
It doesn't matter if the tories do or not, but if his attack hits the spot you can gurantee they'll be made aware.
He needs to start getting the message of how poor this government is through to the electorate.
This don't politicise the crisis is bollocks. The tories politicised it when they had a go at footballers and NHS staff.
At the minute opposition is piers Morgan and Rachael Burden.

So he should ask all his questions now knowing not a single one will get answered and give them a chance to work out replies?

The electorate knows how poor this government is. But they also knew the opposition was at least as bad.

 

[clint van damme]

So he should ask all his questions now knowing not a single one will get answered and give them a chance to work out replies?

The electorate knows how poor this government is. But they also knew the opposition was at least as bad.

he needs to hold the government to account, they are failing daily he should be attacking them daily.
I doubt even this government can perform as poorly as they are for much longer, he needs to set his stall out.
It's not about how bad the opposition was, it's about how goods it's going to be. An opposition that doesn't attack the government isn't an opposition.

 

[Astute]

I agree, but he's started slowly, people should have been suspended over these allegations, that's standard practice. It's happened before in the Labour party, it would happen in most workplaces.
If an allegation of racism or bullying is proven and that person was allowed to carry on in the workplace during the investigation it opens up a real can of worms.

Can you tell me what has been proven?

We went through this before. If the evidence is there they should be gone. You seem to know about some undoubted evidence. All I have seen is allegations. You know more than me on the subject it seems.

 

[clint van damme]

Can you tell me what has been proven?

We went through this before. If the evidence is there they should be gone. You seem to know about some undoubted evidence. All I have seen is allegations. You know more than me on the subject it seems.

nothing has been proven, that doesn't matter. If someone at work makes an allegation of racism against me at work tomorrow i'm suspended on full pay. Simple as that.
I'm fairly sure that's standard practice. If not it's definitely not uncommon and it's how Labour have dealt with complaints in the past.

 

[Astute]

he needs to hold the government to account, they are failing daily he should be attacking them daily.
I doubt even this government can perform as poorly as they are for much longer, he needs to set his stall out.
It's not about how bad the opposition was, it's about how goods it's going to be. An opposition that doesn't attack the government isn't an opposition.

And back yet again to relying on the media to put the truthful account over for no reply to come back.

We all know the Tories are failing badly. So they won't reply until they have to. This is why I am waiting a few more days. It isn't as though the 21st is a long way off.

And I hope you are happy then. Because I have a feeling you won't be happy whatever happens.

 

[Astute]

nothing has been proven, that doesn't matter. If someone at work makes an allegation of racism against me at work tomorrow i'm suspended on full pay. Simple as that.
I'm fairly sure that's standard practice. If not it's definitely not uncommon and it's how Labour have dealt with complaints in the past.

And yet again you say things should happen. But when I ask you about the details you say it doesn't matter about the details.

You seem to want Starmer to solve the problems that have gone on in the Labour party for years in just a few days without any evidence. Don't you think they should look at evidence first or should be suspended about half of the party as some sort of allegation has been made?

 

[clint van damme]

And back yet again to relying on the media to put the truthful account over for no reply to come back.

We all know the Tories are failing badly. So they won't reply until they have to. This is why I am waiting a few more days. It isn't as though the 21st is a long way off.

And I hope you are happy then. Because I have a feeling you won't be happy whatever happens.

we all know the tories are failing badly yet Johnsons approval ratings are sky high?

 

[clint van damme]

And yet again you say things should happen. But when I ask you about the details you say it doesn't matter about the details.

You seem to want Starmer to solve the problems that have gone on in the Labour party for years in just a few days without any evidence. Don't you think they should look at evidence first or should be suspended about half of the party as some sort of allegation has been made?

i don't expect Starmer to sort Labours problems out in days but I do expect to see him attacking the tories.
And as I said, it's common practice to suspend people based on allegations. I've seen it happen myself.
A company can open themselves up to real issues if they don't.

 

[shmmeee]

Point missed completely. You're so entrenched in your opinions you wont listen to a neutral. Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.

You’re not neutral though, you’ve admitted you’re anti-Labour. I just pointed out that if you’re honest you can’t explain why. “Anti working class” is clearly bollocks. At best you mean “pro immigrant”.

Come on, prove me wrong. What Labour policies are anti working class and what Tory ones aren’t?

If you’ve paid any attention at all to my ranting about Labour you’ll know the last thing I want is to carry on as we are, but that doesn’t mean not calling our pure bollocks when I see it.

I don’t give a fuck who you vote for mate, but I’ll keep calling it how I see it no matter how many of you snowflakes start crying.

Edit: hang the fuck on. You keep boasting about how minted you are and what a massive house you live in. Why do you give a fuck about the working class? You’re clearly not one of them.

 

[Johnnythespider]

As I said earlier if they can vote Boris in they could vote anyone in.

I am more concerned with what is happening with my own party. I have been urging people to get behind Startmer. But for instance people are trying to find fault with Starmer. You have done the same yourself.

The Tories could put a monkey in charge and still win. Labour are in total disarray.

Raab has historical allegations? Wasn't a problem when we had a speaker much worse. And there is your problem. It has started to become acceptable.

If you couldn't get behind Corbyn for me, why should i get behind Starmer for you.

 

[Astute]

we all know the tories are failing badly yet Johnsons approval ratings are sky high?

And why is this?

We have had a leader that since the last GE has hardly said a word. We have a new leader getting hammered by those in his own party. Non stop allegations of wrongdoing even though there is a lack of evidence.

For over a month nobody has been able to question the Tories properly. Starmer has been asking questions since he took over. Hardly made the press and not been answered by the Tories.

I agree it is shite ATM. But you can't blame it all on Starmer. He has taken over our party when it is in its worse state in my lifetime. And I am not exactly a youngster. There is no magic wand to wave.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Point missed completely. You're so entrenched in your opinions you wont listen to a neutral. Carry on the way you are. Us floating voters will carry on voting tory.

You're definitely a floater alright

 

[shmmeee]

If you couldn't get behind Corbyn for me, why should i get behind Starmer for you.

Why Labour won’t get elected in a nutshell.

Can we please stop the petty infighting and actually try and win an election?

 

[Astute]

If you couldn't get behind Corbyn for me, why should i get behind Starmer for you.

Was Corbyn a good leader? Was I not allowed to mention what he kept getting wrong for a long time? Was I wrong when I said I could see a big defeat coming? Yet Starmer is crap because he hasn't corrected everything that is wrong in a week.

And it isn't for me. It is for the future of the Labour party. But it seems many can't see it.

 

[clint van damme]

And why is this?

We have had a leader that since the last GE has hardly said a word. We have a new leader getting hammered by those in his own party. Non stop allegations of wrongdoing even though there is a lack of evidence.

For over a month nobody has been able to question the Tories properly. Starmer has been asking questions since he took over. Hardly made the press and not been answered by the Tories.

I agree it is shite ATM. But you can't blame it all on Starmer. He has taken over our party when it is in its worse state in my lifetime. And I am not exactly a youngster. There is no magic wand to wave.

I don't blame it all on Starmer, far from it, this mess has been years in the making but it's now his responsibility, as it would have been whoever took over the party.

 

[Astute]

Why Labour won’t get elected in a nutshell.

Can we please stop the petty infighting and actually try and win an election?

Spot on.

But your comment will be ignored as we have a new target. Just like football and the fans target has left.

 

[Astute]

I don't blame it all on Starmer, far from it, this mess has been years in the making but it's now his responsibility, as it would have been whoever took over the party.

So can we wait until we reconvene until we say how useless he is?

If he is useless I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong to say he could be the one to take us forward. I will join you in saying we need someone better. The problem would be who.

 

[clint van damme]

So can we wait until we reconvene until we say how useless he is?

If he is useless I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong to say he could be the one to take us forward. I will join you in saying we need someone better. The problem would be who.

i'm not saying hes useless but I'm looking at this from two angles.
Sorting the party out, agreed, long term project.
Attacking the tories, his job from day one, not done much so far.
Hopefully he'll start when they reconvene but how many of the people he needs to win over will be won over by a good performance at PMQs alone? He can't get the message across through that forum alone.

 

[djr8369]

It’s the same every day. Pushing for answers that the government don’t know/won’t give at present and/or repeating questions already asked by others (in different words).

I think the daily press briefings are worth having (a useful update for those that want it) but if anyone’s looking for anything groundbreaking on a daily basis they’re going to be disappointed. The monotonous/repetitive messaging might be dull but on the face of it, looking at the numbers following the measures, it does appear to have been successful to date

In fairness to the journalists they have to keep asking the same questions with different wording because the government never answers them.

I am becoming increasingly frustrated and worried about the governments communication. I struggle to watch the daily press conference because there is never any new information aside from the figures and it is always delivered in a style that seems aimed at 5 year olds. It's all very well saying they want to keep a clear message but the public has generally been very compliant and understanding and deserve better. More often than not the public, media, businesses and institutions have been ahead of the government.

The repeated question currently is what coming out of lockdown might look like and what kind of time frame that might happen in. A perfectly reasonable question especially in light of the fact that many countries have laid out exactly that this week. Yet the answers is always along the lines of "we clearly can't give an exact date" and "it would be irresponsible to come out of lock down now" completely twisting the question. A Tory MP lost his cool a bit and took this to the extreme last night on News Night.

The other issue with this is how the government loyalists are increasingly pandering to them while becoming irrationally angry at journalists. I fear we are starting to see the dangerous side effects of some of the Brexit rhetoric.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

we all know the tories are failing badly yet Johnsons approval ratings are sky high?

This is why Cummings is going nowhere and it doesn’t matter who is in charge of Labour. We are in Boomer Britain and as long as that’s the case he’ll keep winning

 

[djr8369]

i don't expect Starmer to sort Labours problems out in days but I do expect to see him attacking the tories.
And as I said, it's common practice to suspend people based on allegations. I've seen it happen myself.
A company can open themselves up to real issues if they don't.

In fairness to Starmer even his very even handed comment that now isn't a time for political point scoring but the government needs to be held to account was reported out of context and described as political point scoring. Presumably he is trying to walk a very fine line. The tories have incredible levels of loyalty from a large portion of the nation due to Brexit of the creative use of propaganda and it is going to be very difficult for labour to start to eat away at that. It certainly won't happen by being heavy handed while everyone is on edge and Johnson's ratings are going up even though we are one of the hardest hit and worse prepared countries.