Exactly.I get your point to an extent, you have to ask why was Coronavirus mentioned at all in that context then Steve? The premise of it is about not intervening isn't it.
I get your point to an extent, you have to ask why was Coronavirus mentioned at all in that context then Steve? The premise of it is about not intervening isn't it.
Very interesting considering all the media is supposed to be on the side of the Tories.The Times article is damming and it will be interesting to see the government response (and more importantly the inquiries when all the information is laid bare - which is the right time/way for people to held to account)
I watched that video about 5 or 6 times and I’m still wasnt quite sure about the uproar. People will read into it what they want but it’s a minute clip and he starts by talking about ‘it’s in that context’ what context ? So I googled the speech and checked the transcript...
‘From Brussels to China to Washington tariffs are being waved around like cudgels even in debates on foreign policy where frankly they have no place - and there is an ever growing proliferation of non-tariff barriers and the resulting tensions are letting the air out of the tyres of the world economy.
World trading volumes are lagging behind global growth.
Trade used to grow at roughly double global GDP – from 1987 to 2007.
Now it barely keeps pace and global growth is itself anaemic and the decline in global poverty is beginning to slow.
And in that context, we are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric, when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage, then at that moment humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange, some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion, of the right of the populations of the earth to buy and sell freely among each other’
So basically the context was how unnecessary trade barriers and protectionism are slowing the decline of global poverty ???? But I guess the person uploading it didn’t want that bit on there ?!
There are plenty of genuine faults to be looked into after it’s over but this type of nonsense (to be polite) isn’t any help to anyone !
I am all for hammering someone for what they have done wrong. But what we don't need to happen is Labour believing false news and having a go at the Tories for it for the news to be shown to be false. It would make those who voted Tory back them and deride Labour even more.Im not being difficult but I didn’t hear (get) the bit about not intervening hence me looking into it. I got that Coronavirus was causing more countries to put their barriers up and causing more market segregation and that we wouldn’t do that. I was honestly listened to it with a completely open mind as well.
As I say people will hear what the want to in terms of context etc. Unfortunately because of current circumstances people will put two and two together and tie our perceived (could be argued actual) slow response and the words used, I just don’t see it.
Very interesting considering all the media is supposed to be on the side of the Tories.
If they were all on the side of the Tories maybe the tide is turning.
I am all for hammering someone for what they have done wrong. But what we don't need to happen is Labour believing false news and having a go at the Tories for it for the news to be shown to be false. It would make those who voted Tory back them and deride Labour even more.
Very interesting considering all the media is supposed to be on the side of the Tories.
If they were all on the side of the Tories maybe the tide is turning.
Those who voted tory voted for them after they set up their Twitter account to mimic the fact check Twitter accountI am all for hammering someone for what they have done wrong. But what we don't need to happen is Labour believing false news and having a go at the Tories for it for the news to be shown to be false. It would make those who voted Tory back them and deride Labour even more.
My mind changed a little when I read an article. An 80 ton shipment turned up from Turkey. It had 500,000 medical gowns on it. Sounded great. But then it said it won't last long as there are 400,000 frontline staff. It gives an idea of the problem we face.
Countries that manufacture items are keeping them for themselves. This us the problem with becoming service based and mot manufacturing based. The EU even made an apology to Italy for shipments that had been paid for from France and Germany that they ended up keeping for themselves.
Just like the test kits we bought that ended up being useless.
I put it down to running everything on a tight budget. Always wanting to get the cheapest price but wasting NHS money on management. Suddenly the items are like gold dust. The suppliers can get a much better price elsewhere so they sell elsewhere.
Does anyone honestly think they are not trying to buy PPE?
The Times article is damming and it will be interesting to see the government response (and more importantly the inquiries when all the information is laid bare - which is the right time/way for people to held to account)
I watched that video about 5 or 6 times and I’m still wasnt quite sure about the uproar. People will read into it what they want but it’s a minute clip and he starts by talking about ‘it’s in that context’ what context ? So I googled the speech and checked the transcript...
‘From Brussels to China to Washington tariffs are being waved around like cudgels even in debates on foreign policy where frankly they have no place - and there is an ever growing proliferation of non-tariff barriers and the resulting tensions are letting the air out of the tyres of the world economy.
World trading volumes are lagging behind global growth.
Trade used to grow at roughly double global GDP – from 1987 to 2007.
Now it barely keeps pace and global growth is itself anaemic and the decline in global poverty is beginning to slow.
And in that context, we are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric, when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage, then at that moment humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange, some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion, of the right of the populations of the earth to buy and sell freely among each other’
So basically the context was how unnecessary trade barriers and protectionism are slowing the decline of global poverty ???? But I guess the person uploading it didn’t want that bit on there ?!
There are plenty of genuine faults to be looked into after it’s over but this type of nonsense (to be polite) isn’t any help to anyone !
Nah he is master joke teller and pint holder, nobody else in their party is better at it
Im not being difficult but I didn’t hear (get) the bit about not intervening hence me looking into it. I got that Coronavirus was causing more countries to put their barriers up and causing more market segregation and that we wouldn’t do that. I was honestly listened to it with a completely open mind as well.
As I say people will hear what the want to in terms of context etc. Unfortunately because of current circumstances people will put two and two together and tie our perceived (could be argued actual) slow response and the words used, I just don’t see it.
But but Boris ladddddd
When Ruper Murdochs times newspaper is lining up to bury Boris it will be hard to survive.
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The government response was basically “it’s mostly correct”. We knew most of it already mate.
And I’m sorry but at what point do you stop minimising evidence after evidence that this government intended to have less of a lockdown and therefore more deaths to gain a small economic advantage?
Come on Steve, you’re a reasonable bloke and I’m sure it must be hard to internalise the people you’ve voted for doing such thing but that’s where all the evidence points.
This shouldn’t be about party politics and sticking up for who you voted for. Have some humility and realise thousands have died unnecessarily due to government action. Thousands. More than any terrorist attack. More than Grenfell. All for ideology and laziness.
You’re right shmmeee, this isn’t about party politics and inquiries will be held to understand what actions were taken, when and why and I would expect people to be held to account. I’m keeping an open mind on certain elements until then (I’ve commented before about PPE and testing NHS workers as the two main issues I see as failings)
In terms of the planned lesser lockdown, I agree, I think the intention was not to have a strict lockdown (quite rightly if feasible/possible....it wasn’t hence the measures implemented)
If it’s found that the government ignored advice for purely economic reasons Ill be first to call for heads to roll
Unfortunately rather than sensible debate people would rather throw the kitchen sink at it.....like that dodgy/cut video earlier
ps I listen to Majid Nawaz (former Lib Dem) a fair bit on LBC (usually reasonably/balanced, got a bit ranty over brexit but didn’t everyone on both sides). He’s talking about Times article now and posted some stuff on Twitter.
أبو عمّار (@MaajidNawaz) on Twitter
The Times article is damming and it will be interesting to see the government response (and more importantly the inquiries when all the information is laid bare - which is the right time/way for people to held to account)
I watched that video about 5 or 6 times and I’m still wasnt quite sure about the uproar. People will read into it what they want but it’s a minute clip and he starts by talking about ‘it’s in that context’ what context ? So I googled the speech and checked the transcript...
‘From Brussels to China to Washington tariffs are being waved around like cudgels even in debates on foreign policy where frankly they have no place - and there is an ever growing proliferation of non-tariff barriers and the resulting tensions are letting the air out of the tyres of the world economy.
World trading volumes are lagging behind global growth.
Trade used to grow at roughly double global GDP – from 1987 to 2007.
Now it barely keeps pace and global growth is itself anaemic and the decline in global poverty is beginning to slow.
And in that context, we are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric, when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage, then at that moment humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange, some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion, of the right of the populations of the earth to buy and sell freely among each other’
So basically the context was how unnecessary trade barriers and protectionism are slowing the decline of global poverty ???? But I guess the person uploading it didn’t want that bit on there ?!
There are plenty of genuine faults to be looked into after it’s over but this type of nonsense (to be polite) isn’t any help to anyone !
I saw the Nawaz stuff earlier and if he's correct it would seem the knives are out Johnson.
If they bin him off it would be a huge mistake unless they have a Mk II lined up but I'm not aware of any up and coming charlatans for the time being
rumours abound that Gove sees his opportunity
eg:
it’s not a popular opinion but I stand by it: while “the left” are standing by, “the right” are calculating the next move. That’s why they always win.
And the “take it on the chin”?
The quotes from government insiders in well connected papers saying “we didn’t want lockdown”?
The quotes from scientific advisors saying their advice was ignored?
The quotes from Whitehall about Cummings presentation “a few pensioners will die”?
At some point mate you’re just deluding yourself.
Ive been there. Voting Labour when Iraq happened and the full extent of the deceit came out. But there comes a point where basic humanity and common sense comes ahead of party loyalty.
He can do a line like a boss though...Can he hold a pint like Johnson? Can he make wisecracks on the spot?
Can we stop with this ‘party loyalty’ stuff shmmeee, I’ve let a few comments ride as they were said in half jest but I’ve also stated on numerous occasions that I have no loyalty. I’ve voted for the two main parties equal times.
Please don’t misinterpret me questioning articles, videos etc and calling out factually incorrect comments (like ‘take it on the chin’) as me supporting the Tories.
I’ve said that in relation to a number of the elements I’d reserve my judgement until I’m armed with all the facts and inquiries are held and would support people to be held to account. Ive also already highlighted what I consider as failings. I can’t say more than that but that’s not me showing a lack of humility/basic humanity
Gove also been pretty visible so that is nonsenseCan he hold a pint like Johnson? Can he make wisecracks on the spot?
“when this is over”- you mean in the same way there was an unbiased & professional inquiry into Hillsborough? Not a chance- they need to be questioned, challenged now because these fucking ghouls will already be calculating how to apportion blame to everyone else while saying “now isn’t the right time”
Well there’s already minutes available from the scientific committee meetings etc etc so shouldn’t be too difficult to pull together the facts
Which is exactly my point. The Tories are doing enough damage to themselves. It will be good to see what happens next. Glad it is the Tories in charge while this is happening.Thats why I think Starmer is probably taking the correct approach at present. Still point out immediate issues/failings and then when there’s an inquiry if there are major failings/issues jump on them and capitalise on them then. The wider public wouldn’t appreciate him giving a government a good shoeing based on articles etc at present, however much some would prefer him to.
You just worked that out?Those who voted tory voted for them after they set up their Twitter account to mimic the fact check Twitter account
Twitter accuses Tories of misleading public with 'factcheck' foray
They have no moral high ground
Works on both sides though mate, I’ve been labelled as a left wing Labour voted when I’ve only voted Labour twice in 15 years.Can we stop with this ‘party loyalty’ stuff shmmeee, I’ve let a few comments ride as they were said in half jest but I’ve also stated on numerous occasions that I have no loyalty. I’ve voted for the two main parties equal times.
Works on both sides though mate, I’ve been labelled as a left wing Labour voted when I’ve only voted Labour twice in 15 years.
If anyone understandably doesn’t want to pay to read the Times article, here it is. If after reading anyone would still like to say that we should wait until it’s all over (which would mysteriously turn out to be about 2 years) as opposed to asking some pretty fucking serious questions now, would be fascinated to know how that can be justified.
And then read some of the comments here
around timelines, advice etc to show you should try to retain a balanced view and not necessarily jump to the conclusions based on headlines
أبو عمّار (@MaajidNawaz) on Twitter
Pretty simple explanation, Murdoch / Times back Gove, Telegraph backs Johnson.Very interesting considering all the media is supposed to be on the side of the Tories.
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