Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (10 Viewers)

[Nick]

It's all published Nick, there isn't a massive drop in deaths from other things - they are on the increase as well as the NHS is stretch to its limits:

Tiktok dances are on the rise as well as the god complex with some NHS staff.

How many people are in the purpose built Nightingale hospitals? Why not fill them up and let normal hospitals deal with more cancer patients.

If a cancer patient dies because people in the NHS are focusing on Corona, is that a Corona death?

 

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[CCFCSteve]

Adapt life around it and test and trace as much as possible I guess.


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I think that’s all we can do for the time being djr, together with developing as good a treatment as possible as BSB mentioned yesterday

If the potential new NHS app is finalised and released it will also massively help with tracing and tracking by the sounds of it.

ps I’ll avoid getting into the standard partisan ‘Boris back at work now the virus has peaked’ and ‘Tories ending lock down for their donors/own ideology’ debates as I’m all typed out after yesterday’s rant but let’s just say looking at the conflicting arguments/comments the government and Johnson can’t win either way

 

[Nick]

Because you're talking about two different things, one is doctors putting COVID on a deceased person's death certificate, the other is about testing people who are walking about.

How do they know it's a COVID death though if they aren't tested? Yes, they can hazard a good guess but what would have been Dementia last year might be COVID this year.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tiktok dances are on the rise as well as the god complex with some NHS staff.

How many people are in the purpose built Nightingale hospitals? Why not fill them up and let normal hospitals deal with more cancer patients.

If a cancer patient dies because people in the NHS are focusing on Corona, is that a Corona death?

In principle I don't disagree but the Nightingale's are not fit for very seriously ill patients, no access to any of the necessary hospital services. Also, there are no extra staff in any case, staff have been redrafted to deal with COVID.

 

[djr8369]

With Johnson back to 'work', it's becoming pretty clear there is a big push to get the economic pawns back to work asap regardless of the risk of death or serious illness. The Torygraph pushing misleading polls stating people want lockdown to end unconditionally, lots of air time given to cranks like Toby Young. Now the mass morgues are in place Plan A can be pursued once again.

I'm not sure if it is just being ignored that we're adding on 4k plus cases per day (and that's just diagnosed ones). I genuinely think we'll go to 100k+ excess deaths from this.

Libertarians pushing opening up economy hard, same as in America. The next few months is going to be a battle between rationality and the wider good vs libertarian think tanks loaded with cash (when was it ever any different).


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[Nick]

In principle I don't disagree but the Nightingale's are not fit for very seriously ill patients, no access to any of the necessary hospital services. Also, there are no extra staff in any case, staff have been redrafted to deal with COVID.

What's the point in them then?

I thought the idea was to have COVID people in those especially to take the load off normal hospitals?

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

In principle I don't disagree but the Nightingale's are not fit for very seriously ill patients, no access to any of the necessary hospital services. Also, there are no extra staff in any case, staff have been redrafted to deal with COVID.

Yeah they were never even supposed to be built for the seriously ill were they? I think from the outset the Birmingham Nightingale Hospital in particular was always devised as a step-down facility, so it would accept patients who had recovered sufficiently from coronavirus or who were not suitable for ventilation. Realistically they're the equivalent of an overflow carpark.

 

[Nick]

Yeah they were never even supposed to be built for the seriously ill were they? I think from the outset the Birmingham Nightingale Hospital in particular was always devised as a step-down facility, so it would accept patients who had recovered sufficiently from coronavirus or who were not suitable for ventilation. Realistically they're the equivalent of an overflow carpark.

That makes sense as if they are over the worst of it or not going to die they can be shipped out to those to free up beds for seriously ill patients.

Isn't the Birmingham one sat empty though? Does that mean there are no people who have it but aren't seriously ill? It's the same as the emergency mortuary there, are they dumping thousands of bodies there like something from a genocide? That's what it sounded like they were for (just the sheer amount of bodies, not the genocide) which has panicked people.

 

[fernandopartridge]

How do they know it's a COVID death though if they aren't tested? Yes, they can hazard a good guess but what would have been Dementia last year might be COVID this year.

It isn't a good guess is it? They will still base on it on the symptoms of the deceased.

Death certificates have more than one reason on you know as there is often no single cause of death.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah they were never even supposed to be built for the seriously ill were they? I think from the outset the Birmingham Nightingale Hospital in particular was always devised as a step-down facility, so it would accept patients who had recovered sufficiently from coronavirus or who were not suitable for ventilation. Realistically they're the equivalent of an overflow carpark.

Yeah, Manchester is step down from ICU, either to rehabilitate or palliate.

I think the London one has a bit more ICU capability but I'm really not sure how it would operate.

 

[Nick]

It isn't a good guess is it? They will still base on it on the symptoms of the deceased.

Death certificates have more than one reason on you know as there is often no single cause of death.

Yes but that's what I mean, last year a death could have been dementia but this year it's COVID. It could have been normal flu that killed somebody a few months ago but now it's COVID.

Unless people are tested, how can they differentiate? If they can 100% diagnose then why do they test people with symptoms?

Obviously there isn't the resources and time to test everybody that dies which is why it's never going to be 100% accurate.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Brilliant speech by Boris, great way to boost the countries morale throughout this awful emergency! So glad he’s back

 

[Deleted member 5849]

This is interesting.

How NZ's 'team of five million' took on Covid-19

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

That makes sense as if they are over the worst of it or not going to die they can be shipped out to those to free up beds for seriously ill patients.

Isn't the Birmingham one sat empty though? Does that mean there are no people who have it but aren't seriously ill? It's the same as the emergency mortuary there, are they dumping thousands of bodies there like something from a genocide? That's what it sounded like they were for (just the sheer amount of bodies, not the genocide) which has panicked people.

The Birmingham one hasn't had a single patient yet apparently.

I think the mortuary was built to support funeral directors as they only have so much capacity in their own designated mortuaries. This was identified quickly by the government as a potential problem down the line as if there was a huge influx of deaths then where would the bodies be stored? Otherwise it's likely they'd have to resort to basically what they're doing in New York for the poor - but on a larger scale - by digging mass graves and burying the dead quickly in order to cope with the amount of deaths.

But yeah it panicked people and rightly so as it was a probable scenario if Johnson hadn't reluctantly agreed to implement the measures we're currently under.

 

[Nick]

The Birmingham one hasn't had a single patient yet apparently.

I think the mortuary was built to support funeral directors as they only have so much capacity in their own designated mortuaries. This was identified quickly by the government as a potential problem down the line as if there was a huge influx of deaths then where would the bodies be stored? Otherwise it's likely they'd have to resort to basically what they're doing in New York for the poor - but on a larger scale - by digging mass graves and burying the dead quickly in order to cope with the amount of deaths.

But yeah it panicked people and rightly so as it was a probable scenario if Johnson hadn't reluctantly agreed to implement the measures we're currently under.

In that way it's ok good to have it there just in case but why not use it anyway? If somebody has covid but isn't going to die, send them there as a halfway house before they go home and free up a bed.

 

[Nick]

Brilliant speech by Boris, great way to boost the countries morale throughout this awful emergency! So glad he’s back

I haven't heard it but he isn't going to shag you.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

I haven't heard it but he isn't going to shag you.

Yeah alright nick, you expecting some sort of prize for revealing how funny you are?

 

[chiefdave]

Brilliant speech by Boris, great way to boost the countries morale throughout this awful emergency! So glad he’s back

You must have just watched something very different to what was on my TV.

 

[skybluetony176]

It isn't a good guess is it? They will still base on it on the symptoms of the deceased.

Death certificates have more than one reason on you know as there is often no single cause of death.

Exactly. I picked up my grans death certificate a couple of years ago and it talked about heart failure and other organ failure brought on by sepsis but listed cause of death as sepsis.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You must have just watched something very different to what was on my TV.

What was wrong with it? He’s rallying the country to keep up the lockdown, saying how it’s working, saying that there is a plan in place to move to phase 2.....Yet people like you will still moan because you don’t like the man

 

[David O'Day]

Erm okay?

At least Bigi won us a cup final to be fair.

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[clint van damme]

What was wrong with it? He’s rallying the country to keep up the lockdown, saying how it’s working, saying that there is a plan in place to move to phase 2.....Yet people like you will still moan because you don’t like the man

Or perhaps because we have one of the highest per capita death rates in the world.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

saying that there is a plan in place to move to phase 2

Excellent. I'll watch it on catchup to find out what this plan is.

 

[chiefdave]

This is interesting.

How NZ's 'team of five million' took on Covid-19

Interesting that the plan for easing restrictions and starting the move towards ending lockdown sees them move to something similar to what we are terming lockdown. Shows how relaxed our restrictions are compared to others.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Or perhaps because we have one of the highest per capita death rates in the world.

But I don’t understand what he said that was bad in that speech which Dave seemed to emphasise

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Excellent. I'll watch it on catchup to find out what this plan is.

He obviously hasn’t revealed what it is yet...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

He obviously hasn’t revealed what it is yet...

Eh? Why's it obvious?

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

In that way it's ok good to have it there just in case but why not use it anyway? If somebody has covid but isn't going to die, send them there as a halfway house before they go home and free up a bed.

Yeah I don't really know why they aren't using it, as it's ideal for monitoring elderly patients going back into care homes or those vulnerable going back into their own homes. By doing this surely it would have prevented a load of deaths.

 

[chiefdave]

What was wrong with it? He’s rallying the country to keep up the lockdown, saying how it’s working, saying that there is a plan in place to move to phase 2.....Yet people like you will still moan because you don’t like the man

Why is any criticism of Johnson or the government met with something like 'you don't like the man' rather than an actual response to the criticism?

There was zero substance in there. What do you know now that you didn't know before his speech?

He's talking about lockdown being a success following a weekend when we've all seen, both in person and from pictures shared on social media, that the lockdown is being increasingly ignored.

We were told we were aiming for under 20K deaths, we now have more than that in hospitals alone, probably over 40K when all deaths are taken into consideration, how is that a success?

Once again no indication that the government has any plan or timescale for moving to the whatever the next phase actually is. Other countries are starting to move forward, we don't seem to even have a plan.

Talked about the government having "maximum transparency", the opposite of what we've actually witnessed from them and says that as stories circulate that media outlets who have been critical of the government are being denied access to the daily briefings, not to mention follow up questions seem to have been removed, without any prior warning to the press.

 

[skybluetony176]

Interesting that the plan for easing restrictions and starting the move towards ending lockdown sees them move to something similar to what we are terming lockdown. Shows how relaxed our restrictions are compared to others.

View attachment 14956

They seem to have a published plan for every level also
https://covid19.govt.nz/assets/resources/tables/COVID-19-alert-levels-summary.pdf
It’s alright though. Boris lad has a plan.

 

[Nick]

Yeah alright nick, you expecting some sort of prize for revealing how funny you are?

Nah I don't need one.

 

[skybluetony176]

He obviously hasn’t revealed what it is yet...

Why not? New Zealand published there’s 2 weeks ago. Bloody socialists with their forward planning and preparations.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

What was wrong with it? He’s rallying the country to keep up the lockdown, saying how it’s working, saying that there is a plan in place to move to phase 2.....Yet people like you will still moan because you don’t like the man

I think that's the problem Dom, it was yet another speech. Granted it was an opportunity for Boris to show face after his absence but surely that time could've been better spent by convening with his cabinet where actual plans rather than promises of plans could've been put together to implement an effective strategy that will transition the nation into phase two. We don't need another speech reiterating soundbites that we've already heard on repeat for the past 5 weeks - we really need to start getting some definitive answers.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

On an apolitical note, I can kind of understand why you might not publish it so people don't start enacting it before the actual date.

I can also see why you might want to put it out there, however, so that you can get feedback on how people respond to the ideas.

Personally... I'd have thought the best thing is to see how any lifting of restraints goes in places like Italy before jumping ourselves. If it goes well, we follow. if badly...

 

[David O'Day]

Even Italy which some folk liked to point at as an example of how bad things could he is getting ready to pretty much reopen and here we are unable to reduce the cases or death rate enough.

We've fucked it big time

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