Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (126 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Yet it means nothing, just a sound bite of words with literally no substance, bit like everything that Boris says.

It’s not though is it?

Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).

You just don’t like Blair.

 

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[Grendel]

Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds announce birth of baby boy

 

[skybluetony176]

Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds announce birth of baby boy

Out Blaired the Blair’s.

 

[BodicoteSkyBlue]

Raab back in charge, Boris is probably off on paternity leave now!

 

[Ian1779]

It’s not though is it?

Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).

You just don’t like Blair.

You’re right I don’t like Blair.

He did do those things - he was massively helped by begging given a media platform to articulate the vision, show how these could and would work.

The ‘left’ don’t have a platform like that any more to articulate the vision and ideas (did they really ever is maybe another debate)

How do you combat that?

 

[shmmeee]

You’re right I don’t like Blair.

He did do those things - he was massively helped by begging given a media platform to articulate the vision, show how these could and would work.

The ‘left’ don’t have a platform like that any more to articulate the vision and ideas (did they really ever is maybe another debate)

How do you combat that?

You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.

Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.

Only then do you get to whine about media bias.

The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.

I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.

 

[Nick]

Did a porter shag your missus once or something?

Yeah but it was 8PM on a Thursday so I stood and clapped

 

[chiefdave]

Raab back in charge, Boris is probably off on paternity leave now!

Even Johnson wouldn't use this as an excuse to miss another PMQs would he?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can guarantee that when the pubs reopen there will be a lot of

"I am an NHS worker, I am in Wetherspoons at table 15, send me drinks".

Cynical bastard!

 

[Skybluefaz]

Even Johnson wouldn't use this as an excuse to miss another PMQs would he?

He'll be off for 6 months

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds announce birth of baby boy

Congratulations Dom hope you’re recovering well

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.

Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.

Only then do you get to whine about media bias.

The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.

I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.

Is it not a generational thing? Those who don’t rely on mainstream media for their news don’t tend to be over 50

 

[Ian1779]

You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.

Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.

Only then do you get to whine about media bias.

The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.

I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.

Let’s say you’re right (and i can’t find much in there to disagree with) then why didn’t the left re-take control in 2015? They did these things you have said... but they went even further behind than in 2010

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let’s say you’re right (and i can’t find much in there to disagree with) then why didn’t the left re-take control in 2015? They did these things you have said... but they went even further behind than in 2010

Ed Miliband was an idiot

 

[Skybluefaz]

Ed Miliband was an idiot

Why? He was just taken apart by the media

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think it’s safe to say we’ve fucked up the first wave monumentally. Will all come down to second wave and beyond now.

Noticed this below it as well:

It could be that towards the end of the year we see a massive downhill cliff as we don't get the usual elderly people dying in winter and they've gone in the spring. The issue then will be the people with other conditions like cancer that haven't received treatment, but that is likely everywhere I reckon.

But it does look like our response has been woefully inadequate on a number of levels.

 

[Ian1779]

Ed Miliband was an idiot

But he followed the ‘grown ups in charge’ roadmap.... he should have romped to victory.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

“Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”. Perfect messaging. These days you’d be up in arms at the “dog whistle”.

As for immigration, TBH there’s nothing socialist about not protecting community cohesion or low paid workers. You can have high immigration as long as it’s not at the expense or poor communities. There’s a really good thread I read on this:



I’m not sure I agree that you can convince people rapid large scale low skilled immigration is good, but the points about taking people with you and planning where immigrants will live and work are good ones IMO.

Although there were/are failings in explaining things like immigration it's not like there haven't been attempts to do so. But if people don't want to listen you can't make them. If you go into a detailed analysis of immigration most people's eyes would glaze over and they'd just stop paying attention. It doesn't fit in with their simple world view and so just dismiss it as 'bleeding heart liberals" making excuses.

It doesn't help when you've had a govt and referendum campaign that plays to that thinking rather than the facts. They get elected because they just go along with the popular opinion rather than actually trying to educate people on the finer points.

"The superior man knows what is right. the inferior man knows what will sell"

 

[wingy]

Congratulations Dom hope you’re recovering well

Put the bunting up and the flags out of the windows

 

[Astute]

It’s not though is it?

Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).

You just don’t like Blair.

Cool story.

Reducing poverty and improving access to education? It was Labour who introduced fees for university students. And since when did the criminal fraternity want to go to university?

ASBO's tough on crime? Since when has a slap on the wrist become tough on crime?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

I agree about the simple messages and listen to concerns, but explaining how you solve them is a waste of time.

Look at Johnson - using such wide brushstrokes he may as well have just got the paint roller on it. So little detail and explanation and he gets a landslide.

So sod the explaining - whack the policy in the manifesto then just focus on simple messages that the public will respond to - i.e. immigration, NHS, crime etc.

Then when you're in you can put the manifesto policy into action and if people didn't read it that's their own problem.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Cool story.

Reducing poverty and improving access to education? It was Labour who introduced fees for university students. And since when did the criminal fraternity want to go to university?

ASBO's tough on crime? Since when has a slap on the wrist become tough on crime?

I think their mass investment in school facilities was worthy of praise, introducing tuition fees and academisation less so

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why? He was just taken apart by the media

Ed Stone
Bacon sandwich
Talking and looking like Pitt the Younger every PMQs
Always trying to remember what the focus groups said rather than thinking for himself
Losing all of Scotland in one go

 

[shmmeee]

I agree about the simple messages and listen to concerns, but explaining how you solve them is a waste of time.

Look at Johnson - using such wide brushstrokes he may as well have just got the paint roller on it. So little detail and explanation and he gets a landslide.

So sod the explaining - whack the policy in the manifesto then just focus on simple messages that the public will respond to - i.e. immigration, NHS, crime etc.

Then when you're in you can put the manifesto policy into action and if people didn't read it that's their own problem.

Explain is the wrong word maybe. Here, top voter concerns 2019:

Concern: Crime - Tory campaign: “20,000 new police officers” - Labour campaign: nothing in their headline policies

Concern: Brexit resolution - Tory campaign: “Get Brexit Done” - Labour campaign: “6 month delay minimum while we organise a second referendum”

Concern: NHS - Tory campaign: “40 new hospitals and 50,000 new nurses” - Labour campaign: “increase health budget by 4.8% & some easily denied conspiracy theory about Trump buying the NHS”

See the difference? And I had to google Labours stuff and not the Tories. And I’m a Labour member!

 

[Ian1779]

Ed Stone
Bacon sandwich
Talking and looking like Pitt the Younger every PMQs
Always trying to remember what the focus groups said rather than thinking for himself
Losing all of Scotland in one go

He lost Scotland because he took the same position as the Conservatives in the Independence Referendum.
I agree about the focus group thing - I worry we might be heading back that way.

The stone was shit - but straight out of the grown ups play book.

 

[Ian1779]

Explain is the wrong word maybe. Here, Voter concerns 2019:

Concern: Crime - Tory campaign: “20,000 new police officers” - Labour campaign: nothing in their headline policies

Concern: Brexit resolution - Tory campaign: “Get Brexit Done” - Labour campaign: “6 month delay minimum while we organise a second referendum”

Concern: NHS - Tory campaign: “40 new hospitals and 50,000 new nurses” - Labour campaign: “increase health budget by 4.8% & some easily denied conspiracy theory about Trump buying the NHS”

See the difference? And I had to google Labours stuff and not the Tories. And I’m a Labour member!

It’s sad you are right because all of those Tory statements are lies

 

[Astute]

I agree about the simple messages and listen to concerns, but explaining how you solve them is a waste of time.

Look at Johnson - using such wide brushstrokes he may as well have just got the paint roller on it. So little detail and explanation and he gets a landslide.

So sod the explaining - whack the policy in the manifesto then just focus on simple messages that the public will respond to - i.e. immigration, NHS, crime etc.

Then when you're in you can put the manifesto policy into action and if people didn't read it that's their own problem.

I'll tell you exactly what is wrong. Labour voters look at what is wrong with the opposition but ignore what is wrong with their own party. Look at when a few of us were saying the last GE was going to be a landslide. We were wrong and anti Labour. But now it is over those who constantly had digs at us for saying what was wrong now say they could see what was wrong.

All this led to such an inept government being voted in.

 

[chiefdave]

Couple of days ago we were discussing the total figures the FT were publishing using their modelling which was based on the most recent ONS figures. It was suggested that this was a high figure due to scaremongering / to make the government look bad. Sadly with the release yesterday of updated figures from the ONS it looks like the FT figures were too low and need to be revised upwards.

Was also suggested that the number of deaths due to coronavirus was being overstated with anyone who had any symptoms having it listed as cause of death. Again sadly the opposite looks like it could be the case. Looking at care home figures there's 9,707 excess deaths (the number of deaths above the 5 year average) of which only 3.093 list coronavirus as cause of death.

 

[chiefdave]

It’s sad you are right because all of those Tory statements are lies

After Brexit it was said that one of the lefts biggest issues was regarding voters as stupid yet the reasons put forward for the Conservatives winning, the claims of additional police, nurses and hospitals, amount to calling voters stupid as they were so quickly and easily shown to be false.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s sad you are right because all of those Tory statements are lies

That doesn’t matter. They’ll say La ours manifesto is unachievable too, but the fact is everyone in the country knew their proposed solutions even if they didn’t believe them. No one knew Labours and it was because of our own fuck ups not a media conspiracy.

 

[shmmeee]

After Brexit it was said that one of the lefts biggest issues was regarding voters as stupid yet the reasons put forward for the Conservatives winning, the claims of additional police, nurses and hospitals, amount to calling voters stupid as they were so quickly and easily shown to be false.

Voters aren’t stupid but they are not paying attention. For all their faults Blair and Campbell got this. Almost 25 years later and I can still reel off the pledge card or the speech slogans “reduce class sizes” “education education education”. Corbyn never came close to that level of media savvy and it was nothing to do with him being treated unfairly.

Until the left starts accepting responsibility for their losses they have no hope of not losing. That’s why I’m upset. Comfort blankets about stupid voters and nasty Tories and evil press barons may make you feel good but they don’t lead to a left wing government.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He lost Scotland because he took the same position as the Conservatives in the Independence Referendum.
I agree about the focus group thing - I worry we might be heading back that way.

The stone was shit - but straight out of the grown ups play book.

Opposing independence wasn’t and isn’t a cardinal sin but formally working with the Tories who at that time had abandoned Scotland for decades was a fatal error. I knew a few people who worked in the Better Together campaign, probably the worst run in this country in living memory and worse than the Remain effort by some distance

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Voters aren’t stupid but they are not paying attention. For all their faults Blair and Campbell got this. Almost 25 years later and I can still reel off the pledge card or the speech slogans “reduce class sizes” “education education education”. Corbyn never came close to that level of media savvy and it was nothing to do with him being treated unfairly.

Until the left starts accepting responsibility for their losses they have no hope of not losing. That’s why I’m upset. Comfort blankets about stupid voters and nasty Tories and evil press barons may make you feel good but they don’t lead to a left wing government.

While Corbyn should get slated he was on the receiving end of an overwhelming number of false or deliberately misleading articles and hit pieces. Think that has been independently verified

 

[djr8369]

You gotta feel for them on some level. They wanted five years of culture wars and solving every problem by waving a little Union Jack and riling the idiots up about the war. They were never intended to be an actual government in charge of serious things.

There would be a delicious sense of justice if so many people weren’t dying. This really isn’t why they signed up for is it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Astute]

I think their mass investment in school facilities was worthy of praise, introducing tuition fees and academisation less so

Look back. Shmmeee said about reducing poverty and improving access to education. That is what I replied to because nobody said a thing as usual.

And this goes to the next point I made. Always go on full attack on the Tories but ignore what is wrong with Labour. And then pretend there is nothing wrong and make anti Labour accusations if anyone mentions it.

Don't we want to appeal to the floating voters?