Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (209 Viewers)

Ring Of Steel · May 7, 2020

shmmeee said:
Anti-immigrant sentiment at the last election was it its lowest point for decades though:

View attachment 15011

As an aside, did you see that research that showed Farage actually made people less anti-immigration because they didn’t want to be associated with him?

The point stands- nobody cares about Nandy's personal integrity, nobody gives a toss about the ethics or track records of anyone- the population is so dumbed down that they just want slogans, soundbites and are happy to believe whatever social media tells them. Why would anyone bother to set out detailed policies or make any effort to come across well when nobody gives a shit? Johnson didn't even bother showing up for interviews, refuses to release documents- nobody cares, he still trounced the others.

Skybluefaz · May 7, 2020

Astute said:
How pathetic.

So you knew about the subject but made out you didn't know about the subject so you could have a dig.

OK you win.

Thanks for proving my point.
Feel free to quote my original response and qualify the above statement.

shmmeee · May 7, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
The point stands- nobody cares about Nandy's personal integrity, nobody gives a toss about the ethics or track records of anyone- the population is so dumbed down that they just want slogans, soundbites and are happy to believe whatever social media tells them. Why would anyone bother to set out detailed policies or make any effort to come across well when nobody gives a shit? Johnson didn't even bother showing up for interviews, refuses to release documents- nobody cares, he still trounced the others.

The people haven’t changed. Politics as rhetoric has been around as long as politics: “Education, education, education” “The lady’s not for turning” “If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour”, etc etc etc.

I think what has changed is general trust in politics since the expenses scandal and more importantly a decline in media quality since the Internet. This means you can survive purely on rhetoric rather than just using it on the general public and still needed to get past serious journalists and MPs in parliament.

Ring Of Steel · May 7, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
You know, I'm going to avoid the political just for a moment, apart from in a wider sense.

In terms of career Javid, and Starmer for that matter, have achieved through hard work, determination, and ability - they both rose to high positions in their respective careers through that rather than by having rich or well-known parents.

As MPs, they've both shown themselves capable of constructing an argument intellectually, and trying to push it.

That's surely the basics for a leader? The only one in the Conservative Party leadership contest who came close to that was Jeremy Hunt, who came across surprisingly well and, again, I'm not exactly convinced given his efforts with the NHS he's who I'd want, but intellectually and in terms of making decisions, they've both shown capabilities which just haven't ever been apparent in the other lot of them.

I agree with the general point but a cursory review of what Javid got up to should, by any standards, exclude him from being the leader of the country or a main political party. Not sure how he would have been able to talk about clamping down on tax avoidance or talk about financial responsibility after what was revealed about him, would be like Boris giving lectures on family values. I'm sure he's a very smart guy, very hard working- but that doesn't wipe his history clean.

But anyway- like I said nobody gives a toss, the population will forgive anyone for anything if he's "our guy", whereas they will howl with rage if someone on the other side does the same thing.

Ring Of Steel · May 7, 2020

shmmeee said:
The people haven’t changed. Politics as rhetoric has been around as long as politics: “Education, education, education” “The lady’s not for turning” “If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour”, etc etc etc.

I think what has changed is general trust in politics since the expenses scandal and more importantly a decline in media quality since the Internet. This means you can survive purely on rhetoric rather than just using it on the general public and still needed to get past serious journalists and MPs in parliament.

Thats completely wrong- people have changed. In every walk of life, not just politics. The slang term is "dumbed down", its more complex than that but in general terms it is true. The country is a completely different place to what it was even 20 years ago- fuelled a lot by 'the media', but whatever the cause this is a very different place socially & culturally to how it was.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 7, 2020

Astute said:
Slagging you off? Get real. You was wrong. You can't stand being wrong. So you lied. It wad all there in black and white. Shall I repost it again? Then you keep coming out with childish remarks.

I find it really hard to believe you are a teacher at times. You are nothing but a Labour version of G.

I wasn’t wrong and explained why plus this idea of me as some kind of Labour loyalist is ridiculous. Take it to PM if you want I’m not having being called a liar.

Grendel · May 7, 2020

Astute said:
Sultana not evidence? Do you live in Coventry? I don't but know all about her. No lazy remark there.

As a local MP she’s not too bad and will respond to people. Wasn’t Innes the other option or was that last time?

djr8369 · May 7, 2020

Astute said:
The problem is politics were much better when it was those who served the best got elected. Once the question was asked on why were most MP's white males it suddenly changed. That meant that if the best candidate was a white male it could go elsewhere. No problem of gender, race, sexual orientation or whatever being chosen as long as it is the best person fir the job. But isn't it strange that the big change in the type of MP we have also coincided with the massive downgrade in quality of MP's we now have.

Is it a case of white males being less likely to get the job or just giving the oppurtunity to anyone? I've defaulted myselft to judging something as positive discrimination but sometimes when you look into it it is actually perfectly fair. I'm not saying that's the case with MP selection as I don't know the stats just making the point that we shouldn't rush to conclusions.

Deleted member 5849 · May 7, 2020

PM urges 'caution' amid reports on lockdown easing

Interesting. If true you have to ask:

Why change it at all? it sends out an unclear message;
Why let the speculation get as it has? It just encourages people to do what they want.

The messaging and communication has been very poor.

Skybluefaz · May 7, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
PM urges 'caution' amid reports on lockdown easing

Interesting. If true you have to ask:

Why change it at all? it sends out an unclear message;

Why let the speculation get as it has? It just encourages people to do what they want.

The messaging and communication has been very poor.

All bases covered, toss a coin, call both sides then claim victory when it lands. James O'Brien described Trump as doing that. Seems Boris is going the same way.

Grendel · May 7, 2020

Astute said:
You don't have to be intelligent enough to choose between finance and being an MP. You need a different skill set.

These days do some sort of degree in politics and you are 80% on the way to becoming an MP. I prefer an MP to be older. I want them to have life skills. I want them to learn from life and not a text book or from someone else's opinion. That is why I like the idea of Starmer. Went into politics when older. Not in it for the money. He left a well paid profession to become an MP.

Well I’ve had dealings with both of them and they were a lot more co operative than the people they replaced

djr8369 · May 7, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
PM urges 'caution' amid reports on lockdown easing

Interesting. If true you have to ask:

Why change it at all? it sends out an unclear message;

Why let the speculation get as it has? It just encourages people to do what they want.

The messaging and communication has been very poor.

FFS they've been dropping hints all week things will be relaxed. Noticed a change this week in terms of how many people are about and their demeanour.

Talking of mixed messages have you seen the gov tweet about not being tempted out if you fancy chicken wings? It's hilariously tone deaf but yet another example of mixed messaging as fast food joints are allowed to open.

djr8369 · May 7, 2020

Grendel said:
Well I’ve had dealings with both of them and they were a lot more co operative than the people they replaced

That's good to hear.

fernandopartridge · May 7, 2020

djr8369 said:
FFS they've been dropping hints all week things will be relaxed. Noticed a change this week in terms of how many people are about and their demeanour.

Talking of mixed messages have you seen the gov tweet about not being tempted out if you fancy chicken wings? It's hilariously tone deaf but yet another example of mixed messaging as fast food joints are allowed to open.

The lockdown was led by the public's change of behaviour not the other way around, it'll be the same again and the govt will blame the public.

djr8369 · May 7, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
The lockdown was led by the public's change of behaviour not the other way around, it'll be the same again and the govt will blame the public.

You're absolutely right.

wingy · May 7, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
The lockdown was led by the public's change of behaviour not the other way around, it'll be the same again and the govt will blame the public.

They've continued with praising it when it's been obvious for around ten days things have slipped..

Ian1779 · May 7, 2020

shmmeee said:
Sultana has improved a lot. She was still on shouty activist mode at first but she’s toned that down a lot and comments on local issues more. I’ve been more impressed with the other woman who’s name escapes me right now though.

There were a lot of unhappy people, myself included, at exactly how marginal a safe seat had become. Hard to say how much of that was down to the candidate and how much down to general crap campaign organisation nationally and changing demographics though. Mattie Haven the Con candidate is a local councillor and from what I’ve seen works very hard locally so was a good opponent.

Do you mean Nadia Whitmore?

shmmeee · May 7, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Thats completely wrong- people have changed. In every walk of life, not just politics. The slang term is "dumbed down", its more complex than that but in general terms it is true. The country is a completely different place to what it was even 20 years ago- fuelled a lot by 'the media', but whatever the cause this is a very different place socially & culturally to how it was.

I disagree.

Over the last twenty years the number of people with educational qualifications has increased, social attitudes to LGBT and race issues have improved, political attitudes have stayed relatively the same.

There’s no evidence of dumbing down, I think you’re just getting old. Just like this guy:

Socrates - “The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”

Ian1779 said:
Do you mean Nadia Whitmore?

No the Coventry one. Black lady. Name begins with a T I think.

Astute · May 7, 2020

Grendel said:
As a local MP she’s not too bad and will respond to people. Wasn’t Innes the other option or was that last time?

No.idea. As you know I live a couple of hundred miles away. Sultana hit the national news. Not many Labour candidates say they would celebrate people like Tony Bliar being dead.

Astute · May 7, 2020

djr8369 said:
Is it a case of white males being less likely to get the job or just giving the oppurtunity to anyone? I've defaulted myselft to judging something as positive discrimination but sometimes when you look into it it is actually perfectly fair. I'm not saying that's the case with MP selection as I don't know the stats just making the point that we shouldn't rush to conclusions.

Some are hopefully most are not.

Terry Gibson's perm · May 7, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Sorry to hear that. Look after yourself and I hope it's only mild.

To be honest I feel pretty good now and could probably go back to work tonight but I am due off tomorrow so may as well have a few extra days to fully recover.

chiefdave · May 7, 2020

shmmeee said:
Mattie Haven the Con candidate is a local councillor and from what I’ve seen works very hard locally so was a good opponent.

I happened to be in when Haven was door knocking on her local council campaign. She was absolutely clueless on pretty much every issue I raised with her. Response to everything was 'its a labour council' and would point blank deny things that were the policy of the Conservative government were in any way to blame.

Although I did note that later in that campaign she moved to distance herself from the polices of central government. Made it a bit of a surprise when she then decide to stand for MP! Was funny to see her go from remain to 'get Brexit done' overnight.

I was undecided who to vote for in our last council elections so looked into all the candidates, its like Haven didn't exist before the election campaign. She's either the most untraceable person or someone purposely cleansed her online history.

Does make me laugh when the local Conservative supporters complain about having Sultana dropped in but praise Haven who ended up in this ward having failed to win in multiple other wards.

The local council elections are even more depressing than the parliamentary elections in terms of candidate quality.

shmmeee · May 7, 2020

chiefdave said:
I happened to be in when Haven was door knocking on her local council campaign. She was absolutely clueless on pretty much every issue I raised with her. Response to everything was 'its a labour council' and would point blank deny things that were the policy of the Conservative government were in any way to blame.

Although I did note that later in that campaign she moved to distance herself from the polices of central government. Made it a bit of a surprise when she then decide to stand for MP! Was funny to see her go from remain to 'get Brexit done' overnight.

I was undecided who to vote for in our last council elections so looked into all the candidates, its like Haven didn't exist before the election campaign. She's either the most untraceable person or someone purposely cleansed her online history.

Does make me laugh when the local Conservative supporters complain about having Sultana dropped in but praise Haven who ended up in this ward having failed to win in multiple other wards.

The local council elections are even more depressing than the parliamentary elections in terms of candidate quality.

Ive only been here a couple of years but she’s quite active in the FB groups being seen getting things done local moan about like the Kings Hill development (which I think is a good thing but locals don’t seem to), never heard from Labour once I don’t think. So there was an element of Haven being “seen” I guess. Regardless her campaign from the outside seemed better organised and in tune with the local mood than Sultanas. But I may be seeing what I want to be fair.

Brylowes · May 7, 2020

Ian1779 said:
Labour are in a state - primarily because of the factions within the party. I hope they may have turned a corner in 2017, but they fucked it by getting the biggest issue in the country horrifically wrong and handing the Tories a huge majority

Yet in all reality they didn’t get that particular issue ‘anywhere near as horrifically wrong
As the Party now in power with the huge majority.

Grendel · May 7, 2020

Astute said:
No.idea.

How true

Brylowes · May 7, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
While there is no doubt the tories are atrocious, they keep winning elections.

Not all of the electorate are stupid, and they keep rejecting labour as somehow even worse that the tories.

If there were some genuine decent opposition I'm sure they would get voted for.

But you don’t need to win all of the votes to win an election do you.

The MSM both here and in America are absolutely instrumental in deciding the Government’s we elect,
and the methods used in influencing public opinion have been on an ethically slippery slope for years.
Where they used to ‘lean to the right politically and report and ‘bend the facts’ in their favour, they now
unashamedly ride roughshod all over it.
The MSM nowadays is little more than a well coordinated right wing propaganda machine IMHO

David O'Day · May 7, 2020

Dr Jenny Harries has let herself down.

Blaming the 5th day in a row of sub 100k testing on a technical issue over the weekend in a lab?

Yes a technical issue in 1 lab out of the many used for 2 days will always resulted in almost a week of missed targets

Also the new cases amount is scandalous and the death numbers are not dropping at the rate they should

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Sky Blue Pete · May 7, 2020

5600 new infections

skybluetony176 · May 7, 2020

David O'Day said:
Dr Jenny Harries has let herself down.

Blaming the 5th day in a row of sub 100k testing on a technical issue over the weekend in a lab?

Yes a technical issue in 1 lab out of the many used for 2 days will always resulted in almost a week of missed targets

Also the new cases amount is scandalous and the death numbers are not dropping at the rate they should

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

It’s not surprising that we’re plateauing. It’s almost like there’s no lockdown at all now so wouldn’t be at all surprised if the numbers start climbing again in the next couple of weeks and the plateau turns out to be only a ledge.

Ian1779 · May 7, 2020

Brylowes said:
Yet in all reality they didn’t get that particular issue ‘anywhere near as horrifically wrong
As the Party now in power with the huge majority.

The day the vote went Leave there was never ever going to be a way to reverse it.... just wish we’d not gone down the line of trying to block it, because although it was the will of the membership it was so far out of step with the electorate we needed to hold AND win.

David O'Day · May 7, 2020

I don't buy this almost like theres no lockdown thing, a large amount of people still aren't going to work the transport figures show usage still down

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covmark · May 7, 2020

David O'Day said:
I don't buy this almost like theres no lockdown thing, a large amount of people still aren't going to work the transport figures show usage still down

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Agree with this. I have noticed the roads being slightly busier, but to say there's almost no lockdown is rubbish tbh.

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chiefdave · May 7, 2020

David O'Day said:
Dr Jenny Harries has let herself down.

Blaming the 5th day in a row of sub 100k testing on a technical issue over the weekend in a lab?

Yes a technical issue in 1 lab out of the many used for 2 days will always resulted in almost a week of missed targets

Also the new cases amount is scandalous and the death numbers are not dropping at the rate they should

Shambles. How does an issue on the weekend impact figures for 5 days. Lets be honest, we've not once hit the promised 100K people tested a day. They've changed to 100K tests a day and fiddled the figures on that for a couple of days hoping everyone would then forget about it.

chiefdave · May 7, 2020

David O'Day said:
I don't buy this almost like theres no lockdown thing, a large amount of people still aren't going to work the transport figures show usage still down

While its not 'back to normal' it is far busier.

I walk either along the A45 or in the Memorial most days when I take the dog out. At the start of lockdown you'd hardly see a vehicle on the A45, now its a near constant stream of traffic. Sure its not bumper to bumper like before the lockdown but its significantly busier than it was.

Same in the park. Council have closed off the car parks but no longer have wardens / police stopping people congregating. This week I've seen a rugby club training, fitness classes taking place and everyday there's groups of people sat around.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 7, 2020

chiefdave said:
Shambles. How does an issue on the weekend impact figures for 5 days. Lets be honest, we've not once hit the promised 100K people tested a day. They've changed to 100K tests a day and fiddled the figures on that for a couple of days hoping everyone would then forget about it.

Hasn't Johnson now said 200k by end of May in PMQ's, or was I imagining that?

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