Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (6 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

I was up for paying more tax if it goes to the right places before this and I will be after.

Generally people are. If you target a tax and say for example "we are going to increase ni by x amount but all extra money raised will be spent on the nhs and adult social care" the public is supportive of this.

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[David O'Day]

It really doesn't - the way the 'cost' of the JRS has been described is utterly misleading. It is spending money directly in to the economy and a lot of it will come back to the treasury in any case (people pay income tax on the 80% subject to thresholds for a start). I think it's reasonable to live with it, this is an unprecedented crisis akin to a war type impact on the economy. We need solutions similar to the postwar consensus to stimulate the economy, not the tired austerity orthodoxy of post financial crisis.

It's quantitative easing at a consumer level where it really ought to have been after the financial crisis, it's funny but I don't hear anybody crowing over the QE to banks which has so far cost £645bn to very little economic benefit to the majority (look at the stagnation of wages across the public and private sector) . The headline (misleading as described above) figures for the JRS are chicken feed in comparison.

Yep the multipliers show that the jrs money is a form of stimulus as well.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not that it really matters but millennials were born between 1981 and 1996 and I left school in 2000.

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

 

[David O'Day]

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

I didn't think I was a millennial? More gen y

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[hill83]

I didn't think I was a millennial? More gen y

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You are. Lap it up.

 

[PVA]

Yep morally bankrupt but the loans were only finally repaid recently

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Yes and wasn't our war debt to the Americans only paid off fairly recently too?

We can take time to pay these things back. Tories just choose austerity instead.

 

[David O'Day]

You are. Lap it up.

Pass me the avocado toast then

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

It really doesn't - the way the 'cost' of the JRS has been described is utterly misleading. It is spending money directly in to the economy and a lot of it will come back to the treasury in any case (people pay income tax on the 80% subject to thresholds for a start). I think it's reasonable to live with it, this is an unprecedented crisis akin to a war type impact on the economy. We need solutions similar to the postwar consensus to stimulate the economy, not the tired austerity orthodoxy of post financial crisis.

It's quantitative easing at a consumer level where it really ought to have been after the financial crisis, it's funny but I don't hear anybody crowing over the QE to banks which has so far cost £645bn to very little economic benefit to the majority (look at the stagnation of wages across the public and private sector) . The headline (misleading as described above) figures for the JRS are chicken feed in comparison.

I agree, but this is why a UBI should probably have been implemented instead

 

[shmmeee]

What's wrong with them raising tax to pay for it?

Right now isn’t the time for austerity, you’ll strangle the recovery. We should’ve learned that after 2008.

Tax rises are fine eventually, if they’re engineered properly to claw back unearned wealth and excess. But raising VAT is regressive and will kill consumer spending.

 

[hill83]

Pass me the avocado toast then

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Pass me the avocado toast then

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Waitrose Heston brand for me

 

[hill83]

Suckered in by the daily mail slating 'millennial youngsters'. Tut tut.

 

[shmmeee]

If the tax rate keeps public spending up, that works anyway.

You’re robbing Peter to pay Paul though. We’re about to have TWO of the biggest recessions in our history back to back FGS! Taking money out of people’s pockets to meet some arbitrary timeline for paying back debt that’s cheaper to service than any point in history is downright insane.

 

[David O'Day]

Waitrose Heston brand for me

Nearest waitrose is in Kenilworth and everytime us cov folk go to Kenilworth the towns folk bring out the pitchforks

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[shmmeee]

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

Im 81 and was originally Gen X, as Millenial originally meant “not 18 at the turn of the millennium”, then they changed it to 1980. I still class myself as Gen X cos it sounds cooler

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Nearest waitrose is in Kenilworth and everytime us cov folk go to Kenilworth the towns folk bring out the pitchforks

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I thought they threw crostini’s out onto the pavement and the Cov folk pecked at them

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Im 81 and was originally Gen X, as Millenial originally meant “not 18 at the turn of the millennium”, then they changed it to 1980. I still class myself as Gen X cos it sounds cooler

So does Gen Z but I teach them

 

[skybluetony176]

Which is why we have to find the right balance as being locked down forever will be much worse in the months to come

They couldn’t find the right balance for the “lockdown” as over 40,000 deaths prove. What gives you the confidence that they’ll get the next phase right? Especially given that they’ve already failed by jumping the gun and starting relaxing the lockdown much earlier in the curve than countries with better figures than us.

 

[hill83]

Im 81 and was originally Gen X, as Millenial originally meant “not 18 at the turn of the millennium”, then they changed it to 1980. I still class myself as Gen X cos it sounds cooler

Good innings that. 81.

 

[shmmeee]

So does Gen Z but I teach them

Bloody Zoomers. My youngest is an “Alpha” apparently.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Good innings that. 81.

Shhmmee 81 c G b BSB

 

[shmmeee]

Really hoping this “leak” of austerity plans is another Cummings media play like the 60% furlough stuff.

 

[David O'Day]

Anyway who's up for a drive to Skegvegas.

Not you astute

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Anyway who's up for a drive to Skegvegas.

Not you astute

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I was hoping for a night in Smack

 

[David O'Day]

I was hoping for a night in Smack

The club that used to be in Leam

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

The club that used to be in Leam

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Yeah, Aron Gunnarsson’s favourite

 

[wingy]

Yes and wasn't our war debt to the Americans only paid off fairly recently too?

We can take time to pay these things back. Tories just choose austerity instead.

Who are we going to pay it back to this time?

 

[djr8369]

He makes some good points. Unfortunately Cummings is running a PR exercise and has no interest in parliamentary process or scrutiny.


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[wingy]

You’re robbing Peter to pay Paul though. We’re about to have TWO of the biggest recessions in our history back to back FGS! Taking money out of people’s pockets to meet some arbitrary timeline for paying back debt that’s cheaper to service than any point in history is downright insane.

Will interest rates remain as they are ?

 

[djr8369]

Seems like the penny is finally dropping

Not quite a lightbulb moment but I sense a few electrons are starting to drift.


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[wingy]

He makes some good points. Unfortunately Cummings is running a PR exercise and has no interest in parliamentary process or scrutiny.


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The address to the nation at 7-00pm on a Sunday evening was a flagrant grandstanding excercise attempting to avert scrutiny and appear presidential.

 

[djr8369]

Most of that will be owed to the bank of england who are owned by the uk government.

You can slowly pay it off as per the slavery reparations which we have only just paid off.

Also if you actually stimulate the economy you increase the tax rate more.

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Yup. Reward the people who have kept things going during the crises with better pay and that money starts moving around the economy doing things.

Our power grid is now interconnected to Europe, invest in the huge potential for wind power and be a net exporter of electricity rather than importer.

Invest in R&D, the last 200 years or so of European world dominance was built on the back of scientific discovery.

Invest in infrastructure and services that will boost the economy. Rural 5G for all the remote workers, new public transport options that will help people travel safely.

But no, they’ll remain welded their small state, invisible hand of the market ideology, provide a few drop in the ocean grants here and there that will mainly go to friends and family and hold the country back while protecting the wealthy and blaming the majority.


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[djr8369]

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

He’s right. You had to be growing up in the 80’s to be gen X rather than born in the 80’s. The millennials received such a bashing during the culture wars that nobody thinks they’re a millennial.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

He’s right. You had to be growing up in the 80’s to be gen X rather than born in the 80’s. The millennials received such a bashing during the culture wars that nobody thinks they’re a millennial.


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Understood, my jist was folks in the late teens/early-mid 20s around the 2008 recession

 

[djr8369]

The address to the nation at 7-00pm on a Sunday evening was a flagrant grandstanding excercise attempting to avert scrutiny and appear presidential.

The only justice is it backed fired quite badly as no doubt they won’t be held properly to account. Good on the Speaker and Bone picking them up on it. Mogg who is normally such a stickler for rules strangely quiet.


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