Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (212 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

It was obvious we’re going to have to pay financially for it, let’s just hope the kick isn’t too big and from today we get things reopen and the economy safely moving.... this is why we can’t stay in lockdown forever

Seen somewhere that 1 in 3 companies might not reopen

Either that or the infection and death rates will start rising again.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Most of that will be owed to the bank of england who are owned by the uk government.

You can slowly pay it off as per the slavery reparations which we have only just paid off.

Also if you actually stimulate the economy you increase the tax rate more.

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I agree, but the tax rate was too low anyway

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Either that or the infection and death rates will start rising again.

Which is why we have to find the right balance as being locked down forever will be much worse in the months to come

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree, but the tax rate was too low anyway

If the tax rate keeps public spending up, that works anyway.

 

[David O'Day]

I agree, but the tax rate was too low anyway

Yes we do seem to want Scandinavian services on us levels of tax

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is why we have to find the right balance as being locked down forever will be much worse in the months to come

It is, but it has been made worse because of how badly the government has managed the outbreak. We are still failing on getting anywhere near enough tests done for a start

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes we do seem to want Scandinavian services on us levels of tax

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Teaching posts in the UAE and Hong Kong looking more appealing

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

It is, but it has been made worse because of how badly the government has managed the outbreak. We are still failing on getting anywhere near enough tests done for a start

I think we are failing on the antibody tests, they are vitally important and are nowhere to be seen.... however it’s proving difficult for any country to get reliable ones

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think we are failing on the antibody tests, they are vitally important and are nowhere to be seen.... however it’s proving difficult for any country to get reliable ones

Would you agree we have generally done a poor job in managing the outbreak?

 

[David O'Day]

I think we are failing on the antibody tests, they are vitally important and are nowhere to be seen.... however it’s proving difficult for any country to get reliable ones

We're failing at testing full stop

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[hill83]

Not much. But kicking the public sector for another few years after it, particularly health and education, have had to work overtime in this timeframe, would be quite unfortunate.

Millennials left school during the 2008 recession, Gen Z will do it during a Covid recession. Both will be told they are entitled for complaining about the consequences of that

Not that it really matters but millennials were born between 1981 and 1996 and I left school in 2000.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Would you agree we have generally done a poor job in managing the outbreak?

We should have shut our borders completely and should have enough PPE, there the things that definitely aren’t good enough

 

[hill83]

You can slowly pay it off as per the slavery reparations which we have only just paid off.

Which went to slave owners no less and not the actual people affected. Some of which I paid for with my own taxes. Beautiful stuff.

 

[hill83]

I was up for paying more tax if it goes to the right places before this and I will be after.

 

[David O'Day]

Which went to slave owners no less and not the actual people affected. Some of which I paid for with my own taxes. Beautiful stuff.

Yep morally bankrupt but the loans were only finally repaid recently

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[fernandopartridge]

Well the bill is hundreds of billions which needs to be covered somehow. The question is who do you ask to pay more towards it

It really doesn't - the way the 'cost' of the JRS has been described is utterly misleading. It is spending money directly in to the economy and a lot of it will come back to the treasury in any case (people pay income tax on the 80% subject to thresholds for a start). I think it's reasonable to live with it, this is an unprecedented crisis akin to a war type impact on the economy. We need solutions similar to the postwar consensus to stimulate the economy, not the tired austerity orthodoxy of post financial crisis.

It's quantitative easing at a consumer level where it really ought to have been after the financial crisis, it's funny but I don't hear anybody crowing over the QE to banks which has so far cost £645bn to very little economic benefit to the majority (look at the stagnation of wages across the public and private sector) . The headline (misleading as described above) figures for the JRS are chicken feed in comparison.

 

[hill83]

Yep morally bankrupt but the loans were only finally repaid recently

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That's what I mean. And the government at the time released the information with a celebratory tone. Paying off the loans for the money that was handed to the people that enslaved my ancestors with my own hard earned cash. Get the party poppers out.

Anyway, probably not for this thread, there's enough going on.

 

[David O'Day]

I was up for paying more tax if it goes to the right places before this and I will be after.

Generally people are. If you target a tax and say for example "we are going to increase ni by x amount but all extra money raised will be spent on the nhs and adult social care" the public is supportive of this.

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[David O'Day]

It really doesn't - the way the 'cost' of the JRS has been described is utterly misleading. It is spending money directly in to the economy and a lot of it will come back to the treasury in any case (people pay income tax on the 80% subject to thresholds for a start). I think it's reasonable to live with it, this is an unprecedented crisis akin to a war type impact on the economy. We need solutions similar to the postwar consensus to stimulate the economy, not the tired austerity orthodoxy of post financial crisis.

It's quantitative easing at a consumer level where it really ought to have been after the financial crisis, it's funny but I don't hear anybody crowing over the QE to banks which has so far cost £645bn to very little economic benefit to the majority (look at the stagnation of wages across the public and private sector) . The headline (misleading as described above) figures for the JRS are chicken feed in comparison.

Yep the multipliers show that the jrs money is a form of stimulus as well.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not that it really matters but millennials were born between 1981 and 1996 and I left school in 2000.

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

 

[David O'Day]

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

I didn't think I was a millennial? More gen y

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[hill83]

I didn't think I was a millennial? More gen y

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You are. Lap it up.

 

[PVA]

Yep morally bankrupt but the loans were only finally repaid recently

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Yes and wasn't our war debt to the Americans only paid off fairly recently too?

We can take time to pay these things back. Tories just choose austerity instead.

 

[David O'Day]

You are. Lap it up.

Pass me the avocado toast then

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

It really doesn't - the way the 'cost' of the JRS has been described is utterly misleading. It is spending money directly in to the economy and a lot of it will come back to the treasury in any case (people pay income tax on the 80% subject to thresholds for a start). I think it's reasonable to live with it, this is an unprecedented crisis akin to a war type impact on the economy. We need solutions similar to the postwar consensus to stimulate the economy, not the tired austerity orthodoxy of post financial crisis.

It's quantitative easing at a consumer level where it really ought to have been after the financial crisis, it's funny but I don't hear anybody crowing over the QE to banks which has so far cost £645bn to very little economic benefit to the majority (look at the stagnation of wages across the public and private sector) . The headline (misleading as described above) figures for the JRS are chicken feed in comparison.

I agree, but this is why a UBI should probably have been implemented instead

 

[shmmeee]

What's wrong with them raising tax to pay for it?

Right now isn’t the time for austerity, you’ll strangle the recovery. We should’ve learned that after 2008.

Tax rises are fine eventually, if they’re engineered properly to claw back unearned wealth and excess. But raising VAT is regressive and will kill consumer spending.

 

[hill83]

Pass me the avocado toast then

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Pass me the avocado toast then

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Waitrose Heston brand for me

 

[hill83]

Suckered in by the daily mail slating 'millennial youngsters'. Tut tut.

 

[shmmeee]

If the tax rate keeps public spending up, that works anyway.

You’re robbing Peter to pay Paul though. We’re about to have TWO of the biggest recessions in our history back to back FGS! Taking money out of people’s pockets to meet some arbitrary timeline for paying back debt that’s cheaper to service than any point in history is downright insane.

 

[David O'Day]

Waitrose Heston brand for me

Nearest waitrose is in Kenilworth and everytime us cov folk go to Kenilworth the towns folk bring out the pitchforks

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[shmmeee]

Thought the early 80s was more Gen X? No worries

Im 81 and was originally Gen X, as Millenial originally meant “not 18 at the turn of the millennium”, then they changed it to 1980. I still class myself as Gen X cos it sounds cooler

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Nearest waitrose is in Kenilworth and everytime us cov folk go to Kenilworth the towns folk bring out the pitchforks

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I thought they threw crostini’s out onto the pavement and the Cov folk pecked at them

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Im 81 and was originally Gen X, as Millenial originally meant “not 18 at the turn of the millennium”, then they changed it to 1980. I still class myself as Gen X cos it sounds cooler

So does Gen Z but I teach them

 

[skybluetony176]

Which is why we have to find the right balance as being locked down forever will be much worse in the months to come

They couldn’t find the right balance for the “lockdown” as over 40,000 deaths prove. What gives you the confidence that they’ll get the next phase right? Especially given that they’ve already failed by jumping the gun and starting relaxing the lockdown much earlier in the curve than countries with better figures than us.