David O'Day
Well-Known Member
But lots of those things are going to be taken care of by loans etc which they don't have to worry about.
Compared to finding tuition fees and paying for accommodation/food at uni as opposed to living at home? Also some will already have PT jobs at home in supermarkets. Moving away means either getting a transfer or finding a new job in this downturn. I think that'd be harder.
The issue is that handing people the grades they want is a short term solution but it can cause real damage for all parties (including the people they were awarded to) in the long run. I'm sympathetic to the entire cohort of students who were not able to prove themselves in the last set of nationally standardised assessments they will take. It means that next year's cohort, who will have to prove themselves assuming the exams go ahead, are at a disadvantage.
The only way around this mess from a universities and employment point of view is to literally treat them as what they are i.e. teacher assessed grades. And that will create a lot of disparity when comparing across year groups. As a hypothetical admissions officer/employer, I know who I'd rather pick if I was faced with the choice between someone who had taken the exam and someone who was given a predicted grade. The worst thing about it is that it's not the students' faults either - they will happily accept their teacher predicted grade; without perhaps knowing what trouble it might store up in the future.
But lots of those things are going to be taken care of by loans etc which they don't have to worry about.
They were ranked within each grade, but schools weren’t told that a certain amount had to be of each grade. The HOD and SLT may then have been adjusted so the final submission was centre assessment not teacher assessment technically.When you say ranked across the year do you mean like the OfQual algorithm, ie they decided how many of each grade “should” be awarded and then used the ranking to assign grades? Or something else?
They were ranked within each grade, but schools weren’t told that a certain amount had to be of each grade. The HOD and SLT may then have been adjusted so the final submission was centre assessment not teacher assessment technically.
Yes certainly I did that and I would assume that this happened in most schools. I did some work with our English department as their initial predictions were so out of kilter with their past performance and KS2 prior data that we had to adjust themWas there no standard method for moderating? I’d assume most HoDs would’ve been looking at FFT and GCSE results and past subject performance, I would have if it were me.
Yes certainly I did that and I would assume that this happened in most schools. I did some work with our English department as their initial predictions were so out of kilter with their past performance and KS2 prior data that we had to adjust them
The government guidance at the time was non-descript as you’d expect of course.
most places have been taken already but you know better than the education experts
bye
Your cousin works in admissions.in fairness the news is full of "too many students, not enough places" so I'll take the words of the many over someone who I can can see wants to prove he is right.
My Cousin works in admissions and they don't have enough space for everyone.
Your cousin works in admissions.
Am I missing something? I just searched for Computer Science, as that was what I studied, and there are no available places at the top ranked unis.
Am I missing something? I just searched for Computer Science, as that was what I studied, and there are no available places at the top ranked unis.
Yeah but if you want to take BA Basket Weaving you’re quids in.
Saw reports at the weekend that people who were arriving back in the country and supposed to be quarantining were being told they could go shopping!Back in the country from Greece. I spent some time filling in the world beating PLF form the government says is mandatory for it not to be needed.
I did try to help DO'D, assume you're still in the same job so therefore have a pretty good handle on this
Am I missing something? I just searched for Computer Science, as that was what I studied, and there are no available places at the top ranked unis.
Saw reports at the weekend that people who were arriving back in the country and supposed to be quarantining were being told they could go shopping!
Says the man who ran off to his mate in the council and then his cousin to try and put his argument across on an an Internet forum.Cool i'll take the word of the head of the Russell Group and Universities UK over some bloke online who a few weeks ago was telling us that teh whole of the CV post code was likely to be locked down.
Don't give a fuck what he does he's a man with a record of talking bullshit and is rightly to be scoffed at and frankly ignored.
As has been said the top uni’s are going to fill up quicker and for instance the Uni of Birmingham came out of clearing completely at 12pm on Thursday.Am I missing something? I just searched for Computer Science, as that was what I studied, and there are no available places at the top ranked unis.
While I am not close enough to it , however judging by the very high pass rates, there will be a lot of students who must have been very fortunateAs has been said the top uni’s are going to fill up quicker and for instance the Uni of Birmingham came out of clearing completely at 12pm on Thursday.
In clearing previously it has always been the Uni’s with the lower tariff points who picked up the most students, followed by the middle tariff points unis followed by the high tariff point unis which makes complete sense, however, this year has been a complete change and the higher tariff point Uni’s have picked up the most, followed by the lowest then the middle.
Exeter have recruited 2000 students over their cap so they obviously either knew it was being lifted or were prepared to take on the OFS or their outgoing VC just didn’t care!
Kings usually recruit about 4.5k students a year but this year they are aiming for 6.5k. Like I say the RG unis have cleaned up.
Acceptances were up by roughly 1% prior to clearing which makes sense as uni’s were nervous about COVID so were locking students in but I believe students placed in clearing is something like 10k down year on year.
It has been a clusterfuck from start to finish and unfortunately some students aren’t going to get their place on their first choice courses this year regardless of being able to use their predicted grades due to individual course caps.
Courses like medicine, nursing, physio, Architecture etc. have caps on numbers due to mandatory placements or accreditations so if Uni’s have rejected students based on the algorithm and then filled their places with other students then the original students who have now met the entry requirements based on their predicted grades won’t get in to their preferred courses at their firm choices as their places have gone.
This leaves students having to go through clearing to other unis or defer their places to next year which will then have a knock on effect on the numbers of 2021 A-level students as there will be less places.
Like I say, a mess.
As has been said the top uni’s are going to fill up quicker and for instance the Uni of Birmingham came out of clearing completely at 12pm on Thursday.
In clearing previously it has always been the Uni’s with the lower tariff points who picked up the most students, followed by the middle tariff points unis followed by the high tariff point unis which makes complete sense, however, this year has been a complete change and the higher tariff point Uni’s have picked up the most, followed by the lowest then the middle.
Exeter have recruited 2000 students over their cap so they obviously either knew it was being lifted or were prepared to take on the OFS or their outgoing VC just didn’t care!
Kings usually recruit about 4.5k students a year but this year they are aiming for 6.5k. Like I say the RG unis have cleaned up.
Acceptances were up by roughly 1% prior to clearing which makes sense as uni’s were nervous about COVID so were locking students in but I believe students placed in clearing is something like 10k down year on year.
It has been a clusterfuck from start to finish and unfortunately some students aren’t going to get their place on their first choice courses this year regardless of being able to use their predicted grades due to individual course caps.
Courses like medicine, nursing, physio, Architecture etc. have caps on numbers due to mandatory placements or accreditations so if Uni’s have rejected students based on the algorithm and then filled their places with other students then the original students who have now met the entry requirements based on their predicted grades won’t get in to their preferred courses at their firm choices as their places have gone.
This leaves students having to go through clearing to other unis or defer their places to next year which will then have a knock on effect on the numbers of 2021 A-level students as there will be less places.
Like I say, a mess.
At an individual level it is impossible to tell but at an aggregate level grades are inflated by over 40% since they have reverted back from the 40% adjustment. It is worth noting that even in the adjustment there would have been growth in the top grades, so this is mayhem.While I am not close enough to it , however judging by the very high pass rates, there will be a lot of students who must have been very fortunate
No.So basically are you saying that all the better places at the better universities are full? Aren’t you actually saying the same as DOD?
So basically are you saying that all the better places at the better universities are full? Aren’t you actually saying the same as DOD?
The amount of money the McKinseys of this world leach from the public purse beggared belief. I was working on a programme that basically paid £1.3m for a few slide decks.More jobs for the boys McKinsey banks £560,000 consulting on “vision, purpose and narrative” for new test and trace body
You couldn’t make this shit up. It also means Boris was telling everyone that there would be a world beating track and trace system in place by June when he knew full well there wouldn’t be as the consultation that they were paying for was still on going.
I have heard many stories of students who by heir own admission admit they were not going to reach their predicted grades this year stating that they will 'have a go' for Medical schools and other top university courses. It was a catastrophic decision to cancel the exams.No.
1) He said was said there were no places left at universities. There’s literally 10’s of thousands.
2) Check the clearing link there are still places at some high ranking universities such as Bristol, Birmingham, Leicester, Liverpool etc.
3) With the lifting of the cap universities can now take on more home students and have been very resourceful re COVID by extending teaching hours across the day and weekend, utilising the space usually taken by professional services as teaching space as they continue to work from home etc.
4) Believe it or not, not everyone gets into a top uni so someone who has just been place at Bedfordshire through clearing could if they meet the grades self release and go to say Worcester, someone who was placed at Worcester as their insurance could technically go and look at an Essex or Nottingham Trent and so on.
As much as I disagreed with the algorithm, the reversion to teachers' grades is causing much more problems, for years down the line, than the algorithm ever would have.Back to the grading fiasco, interesting piece on the BBC site.
One line that stood out to me was "the process has been made more difficult because universities themselves have yet to be granted access to upgraded results, so the university has put its admissions process on hold until they receive them".A-levels U-turn: Universities facing 'crazy demand' from students
Thousands of students now have the A-level grades to get their first-choice course, but can universities still help them?www.bbc.co.uk
And another piece from the BBC.
What a mess.Durham University students offered money to defer after exams U-turn
Durham University says it will struggle to provide sufficient places amid the A-levels grading fiasco.www.bbc.co.uk
I have heard many stories of students who by heir own admission admit they were not going to reach their predicted grades this year stating that they will 'have a go' for Medical schools and other top university courses. It was a catastrophic decision to cancel the exams.
As much as I disagreed with the algorithm, the reversion to teachers' grades is causing much more problems, for years down the line, than the algorithm ever would have.
At least with the non inflated results, there would have been a legitimate basis for students who did not sit the exam to reapply to university, say 'look, it wasn't my fault that the algorithm judged me, give me a chance to prove to you by taking the exam'. The appeals process would have taken a long time, but it would have been much more equitable. Now, we have, at an aggregate level, a cohort that is overqualified (by definition exams level the playing field); who will deny worthy students next year and potentially years to come a place they have earned at university; and who are potentially setting themselves up for failure by being on paper qualified for things they otherwise would not qualify for.
I know of people who by heir own admission have received the predicted grades they would otherwise not have been capable of cramming for. They get the benefit of the doubt, but at the expense of students from next year. I feel sorry for those who remained downgraded by their teachers' predictions - they've not done any less than those who have been handed the top grades, yet they find themselves in a situation where they will probably have to go to some retake centre or FE college (which themselves are likely to be drained of cash in view of the fact that most people will be flocking to sixth forms with their inflated grades). They have been left behind through no fault of their own.
Also, the knock on effect will be massive. Tomorrow's GCSE results will qualify thousands more for sixth forms when they otherwise would not have, and it does no one any favours. Sixth forms are going to be overloaded, in a year where we are meant to be socially distancing.
I have heard many stories of students who by heir own admission admit they were not going to reach their predicted grades this year stating that they will 'have a go' for Medical schools and other top university courses. It was a catastrophic decision to cancel the exams.
As much as I disagreed with the algorithm, the reversion to teachers' grades is causing much more problems, for years down the line, than the algorithm ever would have.
At least with the non inflated results, there would have been a legitimate basis for students who did not sit the exam to reapply to university, say 'look, it wasn't my fault that the algorithm judged me, give me a chance to prove to you by taking the exam'. The appeals process would have taken a long time, but it would have been much more equitable. Now, we have, at an aggregate level, a cohort that is overqualified (by definition exams level the playing field); who will deny worthy students next year and potentially years to come a place they have earned at university; and who are potentially setting themselves up for failure by being on paper qualified for things they otherwise would not qualify for.
I know of people who by heir own admission have received the predicted grades they would otherwise not have been capable of cramming for. They get the benefit of the doubt, but at the expense of students from next year. I feel sorry for those who remained downgraded by their teachers' predictions - they've not done any less than those who have been handed the top grades, yet they find themselves in a situation where they will probably have to go to some retake centre or FE college (which themselves are likely to be drained of cash in view of the fact that most people will be flocking to sixth forms with their inflated grades). They have been left behind through no fault of their own.
Also, the knock on effect will be massive. Tomorrow's GCSE results will qualify thousands more for sixth forms when they otherwise would not have, and it does no one any favours. Sixth forms are going to be overloaded, in a year where we are meant to be socially distancing.
Agree completely that if it was done at the outset, teachers' predicted grades was the way to go, with some adjustment to apply to all grades to deflate them back to normality. It would help if there was some kind of grading system that ranked by percentiles rather than arbitrary cutoff. The problem is that university places are fixed whereas the attainment levels have been allowed to rise. So going forward employers/universities will have to look at this year in isolation and hold this year's cohort to a higher standard (which itself is not ideal and is unfair for many groups, especially those whose teachers predicted accurately).Neither way is ideal but I prefer the one that gives them the opportunity than the one that denies it.
It's not like these people are now just being told "you start as a doctor Monday". They've still got a very long and arduous course to get through to qualify over the next seven years. If they're not good enough they'll be found out on that. But surely that is a much fairer way of separation than saying "you didn't get the necessary grades because computer said no, so you can't even get on the course"
So using the predicted grades as opposed to an algorithm that randomly downgrades people not on their own ability but the school they went seems a much fairer way of dealing with it IMO.
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