Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (38 Viewers)

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 27, 2020

As covid19 clearly mutates and develops different strains as it circulates, any vaccine will be a seasonal "best bet" type vaccine....much like the flu jab.
A few years from now, it'll probably be rolled into one winter jab and society will adapt to accepting/dealing/living with maybe a few extra thousand deaths of the most weak and vulnerable per year than the good old pre-covid days?

It's a nasty mutating virus...and a virus is gonna virus

....cheery morning thought of the day there eh...

David O'Day · Oct 27, 2020

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
As covid19 clearly mutates and develops different strains as it circulates, any vaccine will be a seasonal "best bet" type vaccine....much like the flu jab.
A few years from now, it'll probably be rolled into one winter jab and society will adapt to accepting/dealing/living with maybe a few extra thousand deaths of the most weak and vulnerable per year than the good old pre-covid days?

It's a nasty mutating virus...and a virus is gonna virus

....cheery morning thought of the day there eh...

The Australian CSIRO government agency found that a vaccine would work on both the original "D" strain and the current "G" strain showing vaccines should not be effected by any mutation?

Potential COVID-19 vaccines not affected by dominant ‘G-strain’

New research by CSIRO, Australia’s national science agency, has shown potential vaccines should not be affected by how SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has changed to date.

www.csiro.au

shmmeee · Oct 27, 2020

I’ve lost track of the vaccine stuff. Do we have a working vaccine then? If not how is everyone promising vaccines for Xmas?

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
I’ve lost track of the vaccine stuff. Do we have a working vaccine then? If not how is everyone promising vaccines for Xmas?

Its not been confirmed, and I'm sure it won't be until its passed every stage and been approved, but it has been noticeable how over the last couple of weeks multiple experts have changed from expressing caution and saying it could be months before we get a vaccine to talking about starting a roll out in December or January. For them all to have changed at the same time makes me think they know something.

Then a few days later you had this from Fauci:

Hopes rise for approval of coronavirus vaccine by end of year

US expert Dr Anthony Fauci says it should be known by early December if vaccine is safe to roll out

www.theguardian.com

And a leaked memo from the Eliot telling staff to be prepared for immunisation in December:

Hospital at centre of revelation about coronavirus vaccine for all NHS staff

Hospital's managing director confirmed staff we on standby for a vaccine

www.coventrytelegraph.net

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

robbiekeane said:
So what’s everyone’s guess for when a vaccine will be widely available? As in, widely enough available that everyone can go back to work?

Its pretty much only hospitality, theatres and similar that aren't at work isn't it?

The BMJ reported the roll out will take 6 - 9 months and will be done in a specific priority. Best case scenario is the current tests give the result we want and you're looking at approval in late Nov or early Dec. Maybe even early enough to vaccinate NHS workers this side of Xmas.

But if we assume the major roll out starts in Jan and they work in priority order then by April or May you could be looking to start opening more things up as you could have covered the elderly and those with underlying conditions.

If its needed annually suspect it will be similar to the flu jab. The question then is do they try and vaccinate everyone every year or do they, as with the flu jab, target those most at risk. I suspect if treatment improves it might just be those at risk.

clint van damme · Oct 27, 2020

wingy said:
Can't help pick up the hypocrisy around the free meals for kid's argument.
Enphasing that it's best delivered locally through the Extra funding to LA's ,yet T&T isn't ?

they have absolutely no strategy for anything, even their beloved Brexit. Everything is made up as they go along.

stupot07 · Oct 27, 2020

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djr8369 · Oct 27, 2020

chiefdave said:
Its not been confirmed, and I'm sure it won't be until its passed every stage and been approved, but it has been noticeable how over the last couple of weeks multiple experts have changed from expressing caution and saying it could be months before we get a vaccine to talking about starting a roll out in December or January. For them all to have changed at the same time makes me think they know something.

Then a few days later you had this from Fauci:

Hopes rise for approval of coronavirus vaccine by end of year

US expert Dr Anthony Fauci says it should be known by early December if vaccine is safe to roll out

www.theguardian.com

And a leaked memo from the Eliot telling staff to be prepared for immunisation in December:

Hospital at centre of revelation about coronavirus vaccine for all NHS staff

Hospital's managing director confirmed staff we on standby for a vaccine

www.coventrytelegraph.net

I've heard a rumour that the positive news is from the Oxford trials. Apparently because of the relation to SARs they've been able use a lot of the same research and speed up the process. This from someone in the NHS so maybe they are being prepped to get it in the coming months, as reported by the CET above.

Personally I'm skeptical of vaccines as the flu mutates and there is nothing for the various common colds. Hope for an effective vaccine also nudges politicians to treat this as a short-term problem rather than medium to long-term, which has been one of the UKs mistakes.

djr8369 · Oct 27, 2020

stupot07 said:
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Wow.

shmmeee · Oct 27, 2020

djr8369 said:
Wow.

Kleptocracy.

djr8369 · Oct 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Kleptocracy.

The depressing thing is I hold no hope that this will ever be properly looked at.

fernandopartridge · Oct 27, 2020

djr8369 said:
I've heard a rumour that the positive news is from the Oxford trials. Apparently because of the relation to SARs they've been able use a lot of the same research and speed up the process. This from someone in the NHS so maybe they are being prepped to get it in the coming months, as reported by the CET above.

Personally I'm skeptical of vaccines as the flu mutates and there is nothing for the various common colds. Hope for an effective vaccine also nudges politicians to treat this as a short-term problem rather than medium to long-term, which has been one of the UKs mistakes.

Arguably the most important feature of a vaccine is cutting down the ability to pass the virus to others. See this from a gov.uk article about the flu vaccine:

The programme will eventually roll out to all primary school children. Due to having typically poorer hand and respiratory hygiene than adults, children tend to spread flu more easily, so protecting them is also important for protecting the rest of the population.

Of course, these rules don't apply to coronavirus!

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

djr8369 said:
Personally I'm skeptical of vaccines as the flu mutates and there is nothing for the various common colds.

I've been very sceptical of a 'silver bullet' coming along to save us but the number of people who all now seem to be saying basically the same thing makes me hopeful.

Without going all Big Pharma conspiracy theory how much effort is actually put into curing the common cold? In healthcare terms its impact is negligible but the industry must make a small fortune every year selling various remedies. With so many other things to work on doubt anyone is seriously looking at a cure for something that doesn't even stop people going to work.

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

djr8369 said:
The depressing thing is I hold no hope that this will ever be properly looked at.

What makes you think that?

Boris Johnson’s promised coronavirus inquiry will not start for many months, No 10 suggests

Downing Street has ‘no update’ - instead suggesting investigation will begin until pandemic is beaten

www.independent.co.uk

fernandopartridge · Oct 27, 2020

This is not a defence of the government but a contract value on a Contracts Finder / OJEU advert <> the actual value of a contract entered into, or the spend accrued in that contract.

That said, this is just a fucking heist isn't it?

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 27, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
This is not a defence of the government but a contract value on a Contracts Finder / OJEU advert <> the actual value of a contract entered into, or the spend accrued in that contract.

That said, this is just a fucking heist isn't it?

Yep

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
This is not a defence of the government but a contract value on a Contracts Finder / OJEU advert <> the actual value of a contract entered into, or the spend accrued in that contract.

That said, this is just a fucking heist isn't it?

You could maybe excuse one or two dodgy contracts back at the start of this when there was a mad scramble to get PPE in place, although even that is down to the government ignoring the recommendations in its own report. But the fact that its still happening so often months later suggests to me it is deliberate.

Its just not possible to consistently be that incompetent, and thats before you consider all these companies seem to have a link back to Conservatives MPs or donors.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 27, 2020

SBAndy said:
It’s really unpleasant. I’m (unfortunately, for me) quite a politically charged person and I watch this play out - what is the necessity to depress (in economic terms) the poor constantly?

It's a mindset that once you've gained as much as you can in terms of getting more the only way you can 'win' is by making others get less. It's a fucked up mentality yet it's one that is by nature prevalent in the rich and thus influential in the corridors of power.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Oct 27, 2020

David O'Day said:
No massive money in feeding kids though

I'm sure they could get some if they wanted to. £1 a carrot, £10 a burger type thing (all overseen by Dido Harding of course)

robbiekeane · Oct 27, 2020

chiefdave said:
Its pretty much only hospitality, theatres and similar that aren't at work isn't it?

Sorry, understood that in the UK everyone who could work remotely was still working remotely (I know my company is in the UK).

Might be wrong, but anyway that’s the case where I am in the US.

I am fed up of being in a tiny apartment and it’s freezing cold so I am thinking of breaking my lease and moving somewhere warmer I’m I’m going to be stuck remote. Think it’s gonna be until there’s a vaccine in reality. Just need to weigh it up

Grendel · Oct 27, 2020

robbiekeane said:
Sorry, understood that in the UK everyone who could work remotely was still working remotely (I know my company is in the UK).

Might be wrong, but anyway that’s the case where I am in the US.

I am fed up of being in a tiny apartment and it’s freezing cold so I am thinking of breaking my lease and moving somewhere warmer I’m I’m going to be stuck remote. Think it’s gonna be until there’s a vaccine in reality. Just need to weigh it up

The UK has one of the lowest rates in Europe for returning to work. Most offices remain closed. One guy I know has been told its 3 years before they are likely to fully return to offices. Many commercial sector workers as well including accountants and also insurance companies and even the Revenue continue to work at home

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

robbiekeane said:
Sorry, understood that in the UK everyone who could work remotely was still working remotely (I know my company is in the UK).

Might be wrong, but anyway that’s the case where I am in the US.

I am fed up of being in a tiny apartment and it’s freezing cold so I am thinking of breaking my lease and moving somewhere warmer I’m I’m going to be stuck remote. Think it’s gonna be until there’s a vaccine in reality. Just need to weigh it up

The advise is work from home if you can but its not compulsory so its down to each company to decide. For example everyone where I work can work from home but our office is open and people are going in, at the moment its voluntary but I don't think that's the case everywhere.

The Health and Safety Executive directions are sufficiently vague that anyone who is asked to go in is reliant on their employer giving a shit. The advise from them is basically do what you can but if you can't maintain social distancing then its pretty much down to do whatever you think is appropriate.

hill83 · Oct 27, 2020

robbiekeane said:
Sorry, understood that in the UK everyone who could work remotely was still working remotely (I know my company is in the UK).

Might be wrong, but anyway that’s the case where I am in the US.

I am fed up of being in a tiny apartment and it’s freezing cold so I am thinking of breaking my lease and moving somewhere warmer I’m I’m going to be stuck remote. Think it’s gonna be until there’s a vaccine in reality. Just need to weigh it up

I work for a Pharmaceutical company and they lasted a week before getting my team back in the office. It's 50/50 home and office work and admittedly there are some things I need to be in the office for but it's 1% of the workload and I could drive in if needed.
Most of the office of 1200 are still working from home though. There's about 100 people in today judging from the carpark.

Grendel · Oct 27, 2020

chiefdave said:
The advise is work from home if you can but its not compulsory so its down to each company to decide. For example everyone where I work can work from home but our office is open and people are going in, at the moment its voluntary but I don't think that's the case everywhere.

The Health and Safety Executive directions are sufficiently vague that anyone who is asked to go in is reliant on their employer giving a shit. The advise from them is basically do what you can but if you can't maintain social distancing then its pretty much down to do whatever you think is appropriate.

How on earth can it be compulsory?

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 27, 2020

Grendel said:
The UK has one of the lowest rates in Europe for returning to work. Most offices remain closed. One guy I know has been told its 3 years before they are likely to fully return to offices. Many commercial sector workers as well including accountants and also insurance companies and even the Revenue continue to work at home

At hmrc we have very few staff in offices but there are some

chiefdave · Oct 27, 2020

Grendel said:
How on earth can it be compulsory?

Same way it always has been. Pre-covid I could have worked 100% of the time from home but was required to go into the office every day.

I've only been back at work since yesterday but have been surprised at how many of our clients I'm talking to are back in the office when there's no real need for them to be. Staff at companies like accountants and solicitors who were working fine from home but have been told to come back into the office.

clint van damme · Oct 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Kleptocracy.

heading that way, certainly closer than most people think. The health service is the ultimate goal for any self respecting kleptocrat.

robbiekeane · Oct 27, 2020

Grendel said:
The UK has one of the lowest rates in Europe for returning to work. Most offices remain closed. One guy I know has been told its 3 years before they are likely to fully return to offices. Many commercial sector workers as well including accountants and also insurance companies and even the Revenue continue to work at home

Yeah seems pretty similar to NY/NJ over here. It's like - why take the risk? My company is opening at very very limited capacity and on a voluntary basis next month. Lot's of criteria though, and if you use mass transit (which most people do), you can't come in.

Think I'm just going to bite the bullet, pay the break penalty, and move. No point paying through the roof for a tiny apartment in the freezing cold when I don't need to be in the office. Bit of a risk but, if i can get 4 times the space and not make the winter blues any worse than they need to be and save some cash then why not

robbiekeane · Oct 27, 2020

hill83 said:
I work for a Pharmaceutical company and they lasted a week before getting my team back in the office. It's 50/50 home and office work and admittedly there are some things I need to be in the office for but it's 1% of the workload and I could drive in if needed.
Most of the office of 1200 are still working from home though. There's about 100 people in today judging from the carpark.

Any thinking on when they might get everyone back in on a compulsory basis?

shmmeee · Oct 27, 2020

clint van damme said:
heading that way, certainly closer than most people think. The health service is the ultimate goal for any self respecting kleptocrat.

It’s already happening with the NHS see PPE and TnT. Just funnelling cash to their mates like some African warlord and no one gives a shot cos they’re on the right side of Brexitor whatever.

hill83 · Oct 27, 2020

robbiekeane said:
Any thinking on when they might get everyone back in on a compulsory basis?

They were starting to bring people back in a few weeks back on a rota basis until it started to kick off again. Half the office one week, half the next. The initial talk was indefinite working from home, but I'm pretty sure the second it's ok they'll have everyone back in.

clint van damme · Oct 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
It’s already happening with the NHS see PPE and TnT. Just funnelling cash to their mates like some African warlord and no one gives a shot cos they’re on the right side of Brexitor whatever.

yeah, it definitely has, but I'm think of Ukraine levels of thievery and resulting deaths as a result. We're a long way from that but we've started the journey.

shmmeee · Oct 27, 2020

clint van damme said:
yeah, it definitely has, but I'm think of Ukraine levels of thievery and resulting deaths as a result. We're a long way from that but we've started the journey.

Oh yeah it’s all relative. I just didn’t think we’d see it even on this scale here. British exceptionalism cuts both ways I guess.

Sick Boy · Oct 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
What’s it like living in a sensible country?

Personally, I think there will be another lockodwn put in place. The worry is that a lot of the southern economy is based on the restaurants/bars/hospitality sector, if there is not significant finanical support for business owners and workers things will get uglier in terms of the rioting. It seems that so far that the mafia and extremists incited isses.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
What’s it like living in a sensible country?

The hope is that if others do it, we at least follow.

Late, of course... but follow!

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (38 Viewers)

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