Do you want to discuss boring politics? (75 Viewers)

[PVA]

Ive had enough - all my children are female. In your sad distorted male dominated world if I was a Muslim man and made them wear stupid ridiculous clothes from a mediaeval world and forced them To say they liked it even if there was a way of banning it you’d say no make them wear it

If I was a white next door neighbour who saw them crying every day as they went to school you’d say from your white ivory tower I’m islamaphobic

On ignore - gave you a chance you bigoted moronic fuckwit but that’s it

If you actually read what I had written you would see that I don't agree with it. I literally said I don't agree with it.

And you STILL can't admit that Islamophobia is bad. It's a very simple question. Very illuminating you won't answer.

And happy for you to put me on ignore. Now fuck off you racist c**t.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

How have I missed the fun going on here!?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

'it's ok that he made disparaging remarks about Muslims because it wasn't technically racist'

The Tory Defence Force are really clutching at straws here.

Frankly I am astonished and saddened people defending Johnson’s comments.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Frankly I am astonished and saddened people defending Johnson’s comments.

By and large they're not - simply the interpretation of them. But let's not go around that one again.

 

[PVA]

By and large they're not - simply the interpretation of them. But let's not go around that one again.

@dubed I know you're not like Grendel, can you please just admit that Islamophobia is bad so we can put that one to bed and move on

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think offering higher pay to a profession spread pretty evenly geographically across the country is a pretty good idea in a recession where demand has dipped severely.

I don’t believe in using economics to mete out some kind of perceived “justice”, I want it to make the economy work as well as possible.

As you say the private sector is on its arse and can’t kick start the economy itself, so the broad shoulders of government have to step in.

Nope, that wasn’t my point. Struggling businesses who are losing money or have greater expenses aren’t going to increase their staff’s wages.

The Government finds itself in a similar position. Less tax income, more expenditure and so on. So increasing the wages of public sector staff isn’t going to be a good idea at this moment in time.

The Government is already toying with taxes raises to pay for the pandemic. Why would it elect to increase its deficit?

If the economy bounces back as is being forecasted, I’d be all up for giving a windfall pay rise to public sector workers.

 

[shmmeee]

Nope, that wasn’t my point. Struggling businesses who are losing money or have greater expenses aren’t going to increase their staff’s wages.

The Government finds itself in a similar position. Less tax income, more expenditure and so on. So increasing the wages of public sector staff isn’t going to be a good idea at this moment in time.

The Government is already toying with taxes raises to pay for the pandemic. Why would it elect to increase its deficit?

If the economy bounces back as is being forecasted, I’d be all up for giving a windfall pay rise to public sector workers.

You’ve got it ass backwards. The economy is on its arse because spending is down because the economy is on its arse. Raising taxes and depressing wages depresses spending even more putting the economy further on its arse.

We need people to spend money to create jobs so people have more money to spend, so that we can then tax the excess once business is profitable.

If government starts sucking money in the private sector will have to lose even more. That would be utter madness.

As I said, the fact wages aren’t increasing in the private sector is exactly why government has to increase them. Who else will? Are you suggesting private households and business should be saddled with expensive debt and risk going under costing even more jobs? Why?

How can taking money out of the economy during a recession ever work?

 

[shmmeee]

Further to the above, we’re paying record lows right now to service our debt. Cutting the recovery off at the knees in service of that is just nuts.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You’ve got it ass backwards. The economy is on its arse because spending is down because the economy is on its arse. Raising taxes and depressing wages depresses spending even more putting the economy further on its arse.

We need people to spend money to create jobs so people have more money to spend, so that we can then tax the excess once business is profitable.

If government starts sucking money in the private sector will have to lose even more. That would be utter madness.

As I said, the fact wages aren’t increasing in the private sector is exactly why government has to increase them. Who else will? Are you suggesting private households and business should be saddled with expensive debt and risk going under costing even more jobs? Why?

How can taking money out of the economy during a recession ever work?

Let’s stay on topic here. My argument is very much the Government has increased its deficit with its response to COVID and that needs to managed. Therefore, increasing public sector pay by more than the 1% it already has isn’t a sound idea at this moment in time.

It’s furlough scheme has kept people in jobs at a huge cost. That cost needs to be paid for and the Government has increased corporate tax, frozen the tax thresholds and could even increase the tax rate too. Again, increasing the day-to-day costs of the government doesn’t seem sensible at this moment in time.

 

[Skybluefaz]

How have I missed the fun going on here!?

The word 'fun' is doing some fucking almighty heavy lifting there.

 

[hill83]

My Mrs is way more likely to be offended at being called BAME than anything else I think. Doesn't identify with that bullshit at all.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I’ll caveat with the fact I’ve had several beers. But I’ve never agreed with a post on here more.

 

[hill83]

While I’m here though. A lot of anti Muslim stuff is racism but under the radar by saying it’s not. See your man Tommy Robinson. He loves a “what have I said that’s racist” on telly and technically the answer is nothing. But he’s a racist prick who’s been caught calling Asians pakis. So we can argue it all day. I can tell you about racist abuse I’ve been on the end of but without actual evidence or it being called as using it under the pretence of irony or satire we won’t get anywhere with it. Even straight up in your face racism gets excused by a fair few people.

So as this report today mentioned ‘perceived’ anti Muslim talk from the Tories, I’ll happily say there’s a decent amount of people on here I’d never ever want to be associated with on here due to perceptions. And I’ll leave it at that.

 

[PVA]

While I’m here though. A lot of anti Muslim stuff is racism but under the radar by saying it’s not. See your man Tommy Robinson. He loves a “what have I said that’s racist” on telly and technically the answer is nothing. But he’s a racist prick who’s been caught calling Asians pakis. So we can argue it all day. I can tell you about racist abuse I’ve been on the end of but without actual evidence or it being called as using it under the pretence of irony or satire we won’t get anywhere with it. Even straight up in your face racism gets excused by a fair few people.

So as this report today mentioned ‘perceived’ anti Muslim talk from the Tories, I’ll happily say there’s a decent amount of people on here I’d never ever want to be associated with on here due to perceptions. And I’ll leave it at that.

Good post, well said

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Long before social media, I remember my long departed father telling me never to argue about religion and politics. This thread shows why, although I understand how it engages people.

 

[hill83]

Long before social media, I remember my long departed father telling me never to argue about religion and politics. This thread shows why, although I understand how it engages people.

I tend to leave it on here and 99% of the time I leave it in real life too. He was right.

 

[PVA]

Just to have my last say on my spat with Grendel earlier...

Not looking to restart the argument (and apparently he's put me on ignore which is fine, so it shouldn't restart the argument)

I just want to make my point clear as Grendel accused me of some pretty awful stuff so to avoid any doubt about my views:

- I find/found Johnson's comments to be racist
- Some argued it wasn't racist on a technicality
- Grendel took 2 + 2 and made 8642395 and suggested that me finding Johnson's comments to be racist means I agree with Burkhas and think women being murdered for not wearing them is fine. What an absurd conclusion to draw
- I asked him 3 or 4 times to just state that Islamophobia is bad and he simply couldn't/wouldn't. Which says it all.
- He put me on ignore.
- The end

 

[Philosoraptor]

A few bits of juiciness from last week.

Firstly, the weekly opinion poll.



And secondly, Starmer's polling amongst Labour voters.



Can't see this carrying on much longer.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Long before social media, I remember my long departed father telling me never to argue about religion and politics. This thread shows why, although I understand how it engages people.

Money was the third according to my old man. It should be possible to have civil disagreements on these topics but yes on the internet especially that’s difficult

 

[clint van damme]

A few bits of juiciness from last week.

Firstly, the weekly opinion poll.

View attachment 20257

And secondly, Starmer's polling amongst Labour voters.

View attachment 20258

Can't see this carrying on much longer.

Well he did say he was going to unite the party.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Money was the third according to my old man. It should be possible to have civil disagreements on these topics but yes on the internet especially that’s difficult

Thank you - quite right; money was the third in question !

 

[CCFCSteve]

A few bits of juiciness from last week.

Firstly, the weekly opinion poll.

View attachment 20257

And secondly, Starmer's polling amongst Labour voters.

View attachment 20258

Can't see this carrying on much longer.

The public are funny though. It’s like he’s now tagged with a loser badge so people are dropping support. It was some council seats and bi-election in the middle of a pandemic (during a vaccine bounce)...and the momentum is with the government

Starmer does appear to need to come out with a vision to turn the tide though. Would usually say wait until closer to an election but not sure the party will wait that long. That or hope/await a Johnson/government fuck up...might not have to hang around long....see what Cummings has to say today

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The public are funny though. It’s like he’s now tagged with a loser badge so people are dropping support. It was some council seats and bi-election in the middle of a pandemic (during a vaccine bounce)...and the momentum is with the government

Starmer does appear to need to come out with a vision to turn the tide though. Would usually say wait until closer to an election but not sure the party will wait that long. That or hope/await a Johnson/government fuck up...might not have to hang around long....see what Cummings has to say today

Johnson is Teflon isn’t he

 

[shmmeee]

Let’s stay on topic here. My argument is very much the Government has increased its deficit with its response to COVID and that needs to managed. Therefore, increasing public sector pay by more than the 1% it already has isn’t a sound idea at this moment in time.

It’s furlough scheme has kept people in jobs at a huge cost. That cost needs to be paid for and the Government has increased corporate tax, frozen the tax thresholds and could even increase the tax rate too. Again, increasing the day-to-day costs of the government doesn’t seem sensible at this moment in time.

We are on topic. You keep going on about how the government “needs to pay for” the deficit and I’ve repeatedly asked you to prove this wild assertion and presented numerous data points and economic theory explaining why it’s a ridiculous idea.

Again, feel free to fly in the face of mainstream economics and the data and tell me why this would work.

Again, the cost of servicing the debt is at an all time low and you don’t cut your way to growth. Business can’t provide growth it’s on its arse so it’s down to government. This isn’t rocket science.

Your idea amounts to “there’s not enough money in the economy, better take more out”.

 

[shmmeee]

The public are funny though. It’s like he’s now tagged with a loser badge so people are dropping support. It was some council seats and bi-election in the middle of a pandemic (during a vaccine bounce)...and the momentum is with the government

Starmer does appear to need to come out with a vision to turn the tide though. Would usually say wait until closer to an election but not sure the party will wait that long. That or hope/await a Johnson/government fuck up...might not have to hang around long....see what Cummings has to say today

The winning side always gets a bounce post election. People also claim they voted for them when they didn’t in polls. People like to be winners basically.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Therefore, increasing public sector pay by more than the 1% it already has isn’t a sound idea at this moment in time.

Just on the point of correction, and without comment, the majority of public sector pay has been frozen, only the 'front line' services are receiving the 1%. Front lines services have also retained the progression pay system - this was removed from the other parts of the public sector a good number of years ago, It's a very varied picture, but generally real pay is 80% of what it was in 2011.

As I say, just a point of correction.

 

[shmmeee]

Just on the point of correction, and without comment, the majority of public sector pay has been frozen, only the 'front line' services are receiving the 1%. Front lines services have also retained the progression pay system - this was removed from the other parts of the public sector a good number of years ago, It's a very varied picture, but generally real pay is 80% of what it was in 2011.

As I say, just a point of correction.

But that’s how we save the economy! By making sure no one has any money to spend! It’s genius i tells ya!

I think Mucca may have been a medieval doctor in a previous life.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Nick Ferrari already planting the 'no one cares' seeds re Cummings forthcoming onslaught on the government on LBC. Also talking illegal immigration this morning. Interesting choice of topic on a day the government will probably take a kicking.

 

[PVA]

It'll be interesting to see what Cummings says.

Obviously it won't have any consequences, even if he says that Johnson planned to murder the Queen live on TV and shit on her corpse, but will be interesting to see what dirt he dishes.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Nick Ferrari already planting the 'no one cares' seeds re Cummings forthcoming onslaught on the government on LBC. Also talking illegal immigration this morning. Interesting choice of topic on a day the government will probably take a kicking.

In fairness, you'd do best the play the same card and see it for what it is, a lover spurned from his affair and who's now gone back to holding hands with his former lover. Nothing, I mean nothing, that comes from the man's mouth is to be believed. He is a narcissistic idiot - believe me.

 

[Skybluefaz]

In fairness, you'd do best the play the same card and see it for what it is, a lover spurned from his affair and who's now gone back to holding hands with his former lover. Nothing, I mean nothing, that comes from the man's mouth is to be believed. He is a narcissistic idiot - believe me.

But all the Conservatives were telling us he was a stand up guy this time last year, including of course Johnson.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Johnson is Teflon isn’t he

He does appear to have knack of getting out of scrapes ! His luck will run out eventually though unless he gets better people around him as he’s got a lot of enemies (even in some in the right wing press, MPs of his own party, obviously people like Cummings etc, as well as the left)

Labour need to recognise (whether they agree or not), a lot of the public actually like him....like the Tories had to accept the young appeared to like Corbyn (although Johnson has wider appeal).

Also, I do think some of the stuff thrown at him just isn’t an issue for the wider public. In the middle of a pandemic who gives a fuck if a Tory donor paid for his refurb if they’re getting their jab quicker than most other countries ?! I’m not saying it’s right but it’s not an issue for most

Things like Cummings today could really hurt Johnson but by all accounts a lot of the public don’t trust him (after Barnard castle etc) and I’m guessing he’ll be throwing scientific advisers under the bus as well as Johnson. ultimately if we stick to roadmap and avoid another big wave it might not damage Johnson too much. On the flip side, if we get a big wave (of the Indian variant) and can’t reopen as planned things like today will impact Johnson far more.

 

[Skybluefaz]

In fairness, you'd do best the play the same card and see it for what it is, a lover spurned from his affair and who's now gone back to holding hands with his former lover. Nothing, I mean nothing, that comes from the man's mouth is to be believed. He is a narcissistic idiot - believe me.

By the way, given your job I presume you may have close up experience of his narcissism so I really don't doubt you. After all this is the man who kept a nation waiting for a live TV interview and delivered the eyesight bullshit. Not going to be easy to figure out who to believe in this sorry situation.

 

[CCFCSteve]

But all the Conservatives were telling us he was a stand up guy this time last year, including of course Johnson.

Its kind of irrelevant though Faz. It’s what the public think that matters. Whatever the Tories were saying about Cummings, the Barnard castle incident damaged the government quite a bit at the time because of public perception

From memory that was peak Starmer polling time

 

[Skybluefaz]

Its kind of irrelevant though Faz. It’s what the public think that matters. Whatever the Tories were saying about Cummings, the Barnard castle incident damaged the government quite a bit at the time because of public perception

From memory that was peak Starmer polling time

Yeah I know, just being a bit of a devil.

 

[chiefdave]

Why do so many people still talk about the countries economy as if it operates the same way as your personal credit card bill?