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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,916
Grendel said:
Don’t they have to have any nutritional value? The example I outlined would be detrimental to health?

Is the food going to have nutritional value which would stimulate brain activity or not?
Click to expand...
Well yes, obviously the food should have nutritional value

You can make the same argument about any government intervention, "But what if it's bad"
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,917
shmmeee said:
OK and when they don’t?

“should” is a pretty useless word in policy making. You have to deal with reality. And most people can’t afford a childminder five mornings a week.
Click to expand...
Well no, "should" is common sense. Somebody has a kid, they feed it and keep it healthy.

I'm not having that people can't afford to give their kids a breakfast before school unless it's an extreme situation.

If people want to get additional childcare, then they pay for it themselves.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,918
Nick said:
Well no, "should" is common sense. Somebody has a kid, they feed it and keep it healthy.

I'm not having that people can't afford to give their kids a breakfast before school unless it's an extreme situation.

If people want to get additional childcare, then they pay for it themselves.
Click to expand...

But as I’ve said the reality is that many parents don’t. So what now? Moralising about their parents doesn’t help the kid and if you leave a kid to be fucked up you’ll be spending an awful lot more further down the line on police health and benefits.

We have a school schedule based on the 1800s where the woman stayed at home and the kids came back to help with harvest during the summer. Is it really so crazy to suggest this doesn’t work in a modern two income 9-5 world?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,919
shmmeee said:
But as I’ve said the reality is that many parents don’t. So what now? Moralising about their parents doesn’t help the kid and if you leave a kid to be fucked up you’ll be spending an awful lot more further down the line on police health and benefits.
Click to expand...

If a kid is starving (see Daniel Pelka, eating from bins) then social services should be straight in and dealing with things properly.

If kids are old enough to know if they want to eat breakfast and their parents are refusing it, or if the kid is too young and the parents don't offer it. It's a parental issue and should be dealt with.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,920
Nick said:
If a kid is starving (see Daniel Pelka, eating from bins) then social services should be straight in and dealing with things properly.

If kids are old enough to know if they want to eat breakfast and their parents are refusing it, or if the kid is too young and the parents don't offer it. It's a parental issue and should be dealt with.
Click to expand...

How?

Have you fucking seen the caseload of your average social services worker? This is just delusional stuff I’m sorry.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,921
shmmeee said:
How?

Have you fucking seen the caseload of your average social services worker? This is just delusional stuff I’m sorry.
Click to expand...

Delusional to think that social services should be dealing with kids who's parents refuse to feed them?

If Person A fires out 5 kids and refuses to feed them (even though they will be getting benefits for that reason) then where does it stop? They don't clothe them either so that's on everybody else too? If the kids aren't being looked after properly, that's when social services / police and the authorities should be involved.

How about stopping benefits of parents who refuse to feed their kids and then ordering in a proper meal service where the kids get proper meals?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,922
shmmeee said:
Finham Facebook groups are hilarious “Did anyone else see this man walking down the street in the middle of the day??? Seems suspicious!”
Click to expand...
Suspicious = non-white
 
Reactions: shmmeee

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,923
Nick said:
I'm not having that people can't afford to give their kids a breakfast before school unless it's an extreme situation.
Click to expand...

There are people who cannot afford it though
 
Reactions: Ring Of Steel

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,924
Grendel said:
It isn’t is it?
Click to expand...
Who is it then?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,925
There are working people who struggle to afford to feed kids, not everybody with 5 kids is on benefits Nick. You are so unbelievably blinkered.
 
Reactions: rondog1973, Ian1779, Ring Of Steel and 1 other person

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,926
Nick said:
Delusional to think that social services should be dealing with kids who's parents refuse to feed them?

If Person A fires out 5 kids and refuses to feed them (even though they will be getting benefits for that reason) then where does it stop? They don't clothe them either so that's on everybody else too? If the kids aren't being looked after properly, that's when social services / police and the authorities should be involved.

How about stopping benefits of parents who refuse to feed their kids and then ordering in a proper meal service where the kids get proper meals?
Click to expand...

If you know anything of the pressures on social services yes it’s delusional. Like Homer Simpson’s Garbage Man delusional. There’s just not the resources or the processes to deal with this after the fact. We can’t even get a handle on serious abuse let alone Monster for breakfast.

We all know if everyone was a perfect citizen we wouldn’t need laws and enforcement but it’s not a particularly useful thought because they’re not and never will be.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,927
fernandopartridge said:
There are working people who struggle to afford to feed kids, not everybody with 5 kids is on benefits Nick. You are so unbelievably blinkered.
Click to expand...

Blinkered or just sensible? If somebody is working and has 5 kids and can't afford them then they probably should have pulled out.

Like I said, make 5 sets of overnight oats with some fruit in and job done.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,928
Nick said:
Blinkered or just sensible? If somebody is working and has 5 kids and can't afford them then they probably should have pulled out.

Like I said, make 5 sets of overnight oats with some fruit in and job done.
Click to expand...

 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,929
Nick said:
social services should be straight in and dealing with things properly.
Click to expand...
In an ideal world this would happen but this would need a huge investment in social services which realistically isn't going to happen no matter how much it is needed.

Anyone who has had to deal with social services will tell you the idea of them suddenly taking on a huge additional caseload is a non starter. I'm supposed to have quarterly meetings with social services about my Dads care, he's into year three and I've met with them once, for a few minutes, via zoom.

We've got teachers talking about taking toasters into school and making kids toast every morning because the majority of their class is turning up hungry. Should it have been dealt with before it got to this point? Absolutely it should have but we are where we are and if the quickest / cheapest resolution is providing every school kid with breakfast then shouldn't we start from there?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,930
fernandopartridge said:
There are people who cannot afford it though
Click to expand...

So they should probably reevaluate their situation if they can't afford to feed their kid breakfast.

If people have 5 kids and they can't afford to feed them, they shouldn't have had 5 kids.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,931
Nick said:
overnight oats with some fruit in
Click to expand...
thought I'd logged into mumsnet by mistake
 
Reactions: bezzer and Ring Of Steel

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,932
Nick said:
So they should probably reevaluate their situation if they can't afford to feed their kid breakfast.
Click to expand...

Circumstances change don't they? The cost of living has gone through the roof, it's very plausible that somebody who could previously afford basics now can't. How do you not understand that?

"they should get another job then"
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,933
Nick said:
So they should probably reevaluate their situation if they can't afford to feed their kid breakfast.

If people have 5 kids and they can't afford to feed them, they shouldn't have had 5 kids.
Click to expand...

Great stuff. Well just get them to suck the kids back up their fanny you fucking moron.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,934
fernandopartridge said:
Circumstances change don't they? The cost of living has gone through the roof, it's very plausible that somebody who could previously afford basics now can't. How do you not understand that?

"they should get another job then"
Click to expand...

Thats why I said re-evaluate their situation.

Maybe it's just me that if my finances meant I struggled to feed my daughter I'd be doing everything possible within my power to sort it rather than whinging about somebody else not doing it for me.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,935
Nick said:
Thats why I said re-evaluate their situation.

Maybe it's just me that if my finances meant I struggled to feed my daughter I'd be doing everything possible within my power to sort it rather than whinging about somebody else not doing it for me.
Click to expand...

Because you’re a good parent. Well done here’s a gold star

Now what about kids who aren’t as lucky as yours?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,936
shmmeee said:
Great stuff. Well just get them to suck the kids back up their fanny you fucking moron.
Click to expand...

I'm the moron for living within my means and would do anything it takes to give my child the basics. OK then.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,937
Nick said:
Thats why I said re-evaluate their situation.

Maybe it's just me that if my finances meant I struggled to feed my daughter I'd be doing everything possible within my power to sort it rather than whinging about somebody else not doing it for me.
Click to expand...

Selling drugs?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,938
shmmeee said:
Because you’re a good parent. Well done here’s a gold star

Now what about kids who aren’t as lucky as yours?
Click to expand...

I only have one, sensible you see. I didn't just start a production line without thinking about whether I can afford it or not.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,939
Nick said:
I'm the moron for living within my means and would do anything it takes to give my child the basics. OK then.
Click to expand...

How do you know these people are not doing everything they can?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,940
Nick said:
I'm the moron for living within my means and would do anything it takes to give my child the basics. OK then.
Click to expand...

No you’re the moron who goes “well you should have considered every possible life outcome before having kids”. Shit happens man. Illness. Addiction. Family breakdown.

Once a kid is born it’s born. Saying “I wouldn’t start from here” is just pointless bollocks.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,941
fernandopartridge said:
Selling drugs?
Click to expand...

Nah, it's easier to just say "everybody else should pay to raise my kids" and spend my money on other shit.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,942
“Hey should we intervene and reduce the chance of this child becoming a drain of public resources as an adult?”

“Nah let them cook. I want to teach these parents a lesson”

Genius.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,943
Nick said:
Nah, it's easier to just say "everybody else should pay to raise my kids" and spend my money on other shit.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Nobody is saying that, there aren't people in those circumstances demanding breakfast clubs you clown. It's services recognising a problem and doing something to intervene.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,944
fernandopartridge said:
How do you know these people are not doing everything they can?
Click to expand...

Because if they can't afford to or choose not to give their kids a breakfast (whether on benefits or working or a mixture of both) then I'd suggest they aren't.

I'd bet that it's very minimal where people literally can't after they have evaluated their financial situation and made cuts where they can.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,945
shmmeee said:
“Hey should we intervene and reduce the chance of this child becoming a drain of public resources as an adult?”

“Nah let them cook. I want to teach these parents a lesson”

Genius.
Click to expand...

Giving them a sausage batch isn't going to fix that....
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,946
Nick said:
Giving them a sausage batch isn't going to fix that....
Click to expand...

Well between some random on the internet with strong opinions and decades of educational research I know which one I’m going with.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,947
Nick said:
Giving them a sausage batch isn't going to fix that....
Click to expand...

Well there is a boat load of research behind the benefits of nutrition
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,948

Children in the UK are shorter, fatter and sicker due to poor diet and poverty, report suggests

Campaigners from The Food Foundation charity called on the next government to take action to "reverse the current trajectory" and warned that failure to do so might increase pressure on the NHS.
news.sky.com
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,949
Giving kids from families that can’t afford it a healthy nutritious breakfast, is great and a good use of cash

Giving all kids whether they need it or not, a substandard breakfast, not so good

I’ve seen what hospitals give patients recovering from illness and medical procedures to eat, so unfortunately I dont hold out much hope.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 16, 2025
  • #47,950
Amazing that Nick has more sympathy for those poor unfortunate parents who now have to pay VAT on school fees than on parents who can barely afford to feed their kids
 
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