Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

The old Labourites were saying that in the era of jobs for life, strong union membership to protect pay and conditions, more secure employment and housing far closer to wages in cost than today.

Work does not pay if your employment is insecure, wages not keeping up with living costs and pension schemes a shadow of their former selves. I cannot speak much for Gen Z, but among my millennial friends now all in our 30s, 3 of us have/are having children, the rest aren't and it's for economic reasons. The consequences of this declining birth rate we are already seeing and it will either be that you need to be rich to have children or get the state to drastically increase the level of financial support for new parents.

People need to look beyond the up front cost of anything as a reason not to do it. 14 years of the Tories underfunding most things in the name of saving money has ultimately left us with a system in very bad shape needing even more money to fix it than if we'd made the commitments in the first place.

In Hungary they are giving tax breaks to mothers with children to combat population decline without resorting to immigration. There are other measures as mentioned in the article below.

Hungary announces historic tax cut for mothers

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has introduced what he calls the “largest tax cut in Europe and the entire Western world”.

euroweeklynews.com

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

O'Day showing his true colours alright, Madonna did a song about it

Which song was that?

The only song I get from that sentence was by Cyndi Lauper

 

[rondog1973]

Which song was that?

The only song I get from that sentence was by Cyndi Lauper

True Blue

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

In Hungary they are giving tax breaks to mothers with children to combat population decline without resorting to immigration. There are other measures as mentioned in the article below.

Hungary announces historic tax cut for mothers

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has introduced what he calls the “largest tax cut in Europe and the entire Western world”.

euroweeklynews.com

But even if we implemented that there is still going to be a massive lag of a few decades between now and that policy having effect (people deciding to have kids, the kids being conceived/born and then getting old enough to work). So what do we do in the meantime to plug the gap as we have increasing older people and the cost required for them?

Plus if we increase the birth rate we're going to need to increase spending in schools, early learning, post natal etc. before we see the benefit of them as adults.

Even then with the economic situation today we're finding increasing numbers of disenfranchised young people wondering why should they bother as they'll just spend their lives working hard to fill someone else's pension pot because they can't afford to own a home.

Immigration is a far more complex thing than "incentivise women to have more kids"

 

[Captain Dart]

Which song was that?

Material Girl? Assuming Mr O'Day is self identifying.

 

[Captain Dart]

But even if we implemented that there is still going to be a massive lag of a few decades between now and that policy having effect (people deciding to have kids, the kids being conceived/born and then getting old enough to work). So what do we do in the meantime to plug the gap as we have increasing older people and the cost required for them?

Plus if we increase the birth rate we're going to need to increase spending in schools, early learning, post natal etc. before we see the benefit of them as adults.

Even then with the economic situation today we're finding increasing numbers of disenfranchised young people wondering why should they bother as they'll just spend their lives working hard to fill someone else's pension pot because they can't afford to own a home.

Immigration is a far more complex thing than "incentivise women to have more kids"

Please do not take my post as alignment or agreement with that policy, couldn't tell you what it's effect might be, but I do think it is a hell of a lot more imaginative than the policies being pursued over here.

 

[Grendel]

Liz hits back to Channel 4 News

“hold on we are the party that introduced breakfast clubs at schools”

Crises averted

 

[fernandopartridge]

Liz hits back to Channel 4 News

“hold on we are the party that introduced breakfast clubs at schools”

Crises averted

Is she hinting at the impoverished disabled people using them?

 

[fernandopartridge]

 

[fernandopartridge]

So many receipts lads

 

[chiefdave]

It's performative nonsense. Unless they're proposing a cull of pensioners it's pissing in the wind.

Pensions absolutely dwarf every other DWP payment, and thats before you consider that the fact that the level of other benefits skyrockets in the over 60s. And all of that is before you add in care costs which come out of council budgets and the NHS.

Maybe thats the plan and the cut to WFA is step one, give it a few years and you'll get a bullet in the head on your 60th

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's performative nonsense. Unless they're proposing a cull of pensioners it's pissing in the wind.

Pensions absolutely dwarf every other DWP payment, and thats before you consider that the fact that the level of other benefits skyrockets in the over 60s. And all of that is before you add in care costs which come out of council budgets and the NHS.

Maybe thats the plan and the cut to WFA is the step one, give it a few years and you'll get a bullet in the head on your 60th

Well at the very least they could get rid of the triple lock, which is costing an absolute fortune, before actually cutting payments elsewhere.

 

[Grendel]

Well at the very least they could get rid of the triple lock, which is costing an absolute fortune, before actually cutting payments elsewhere.

Those pesky old people eh

 

[fernandopartridge]

The government is not a household. For every government "saving" there is a private sector loss. Get it into your fucking thick heads.

 

[shmmeee]

It brought in the minimum wage and brought loads of schools out of disrepair after the Tories had allowed them to rot. Instead this government is so obsessed with penny pinching that it will walk into an electorate that has seen nothing substantively improve and look to the far right for an answer.

I think they know that. This govt has raised NMW and brought in some of the biggest reforms for workers rights in my lifetime. They just don’t have a dot com bubble bonus paying for everything.

 

[David O'Day]

O'Day showing his true colours alright, Madonna did a song about it

once again all you have is snark and no answers

i genuinely asked if other people had any sensible suggestions and that is what you pipe up with

to be fair it is about your level

 

[fernandopartridge]

once again all you have is snark and no answers

i genuinely asked if other people had any sensible suggestions and that is what you pipe up with

to be fair it is about your level

You said you had a bridge for sale

 

[David O'Day]

They've not renationalised it or anything else really as yet? They have ducked water renationalisation despite the chronic problems with the sector. Energy LOL, they've established Great British Energy to do something. I'm sure plans are afoot to renationalise Royal Mail and take telecoms back into public ownership where they should be? The probation service was renationalised by the Tories a few years ago.

The coalition introduced the structure of the welfare system we have today that the current government. The current government retains all of its main features, e.g. the two child benefit cap, the bedroom tax, the structure of Universal Credit. The current government is reducing the circumstances in which you can claim Universal Credit.

Brexit was the government after that.

You utter fucking clown.

so you don't have a sensible suggestion? you utter fucking charlatan of a man

all you have is insults, shame on you

 

[fernandopartridge]

Actually David I'll humour you. Your party's reasons for the cuts to disabled people's benefits are moral not economic. What's morally wrong with paying benefits to people unable to work?

 

[David O'Day]

You said you had a bridge for sale

more snark and no answer

magic beans are more of an answer than you seem to have

 

[fernandopartridge]

Job vacancies have been reducing in number for 30 consecutive months. Where's the employer demand for all these former PIP claimants?

 

[fernandopartridge]

more snark and no answer

magic beans are more of an answer than you seem to have

What's the question though?

 

[David O'Day]

Back in adult land

Having to score 4 in one activity to get the highest benefit is probably too high and may need to be looked at

But things like making sure people won't lose their benefit if they try to take a job and they find it is too much, scrapping WCA's, more face to face meetings, no reassessments disabilities that will never improve an extra 1bn to try and help though who want to work back into work and to also help employers keep people in work are all good things that should be supported.

It's fucking stupid to think that the welfare system doesn't need improving and is fair for a lot of people in it, how you do so can be open to debate.

Open to genuine suggestions on what can be done though.

 

[Evo1883]

Reduce overseas aid
Reduce welfare benefits
Attack people hiding behind mental health issues to not work
Stop winter fuel allowances

Sounds pretty tory to me , oh wait

 

[fernandopartridge]

.

It's fucking stupid to think that the welfare system doesn't need improving and is fair for a lot of people in it, how you do so can be open to debate.

Why? What's the underlying objective?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Reform have thrown the system wide open
Starmer and the party are scared shitless

 

[Evo1883]

For the record , if the tories were doing what Labour are on about doing/doing, loads on here would say it was typical and disgraceful and would urge people to vote for Labour

 

[Evo1883]

Reform have thrown the system wide open
Starmer and the party are scared shitless

Yes and now Labour are pandering to the right to stop bleeding voters , whilst bleeding voters anyway

 

[David O'Day]

Reform have thrown the system wide open
Starmer and the party are scared shitless

nonsense, the welfare system isn't fit for purpose

people would eventually need to look at reforming it if reform the party existed or not

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh and incidentally, was chatting to somebody who works for an integrated care board employing circa 2k people. They've been told to cut numbers / budget by 50%. All this going on under the radar while big statements about NHSE come from ministers.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes and now Labour are pandering to the right to stop bleeding voters , whilst bleeding voters anyway

At both ends they can’t win

 

[fernandopartridge]

At both ends they can’t win

Please stop deluding yourself that they're doing this because voters are making them, jesus wept

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Please stop deluding yourself that they're doing this because voters are making them, jesus wept

Im not stop being so defensive

 

[Evo1883]

Wes streeting arguing that work is good for your mental health .. Wes streeting who uses the same sentence your boss would use .. difficult to understand why a Labour government are behaving like this really

 

[chiefdave]

Job vacancies have been reducing in number for 30 consecutive months. Where's the employer demand for all these former PIP claimants?

We've become a country of small businesses, they aren't going to employ people who may need additional time off for medical reasons. My boss has a fit if I have a doctors appointment and come in a few minutes late!

So you're left with big business who, for whatever reason, want to be seen to do the right thing. Or the most likely option, large government subsidies to persuade employers to take people on.