Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I can't sorry... shouldn't have raised it on here should have known better , educated yes ...absolutely miles away from reality...yes
Educated people are making these decisions too .
Maybe the system Is just broken
Isn’t that sort of the point that the Scottish government is making? Leave kids alone to identify how they feel is right for them.
Isn’t that sort of the point that the Scottish government is making? Leave kids alone to identify how they feel is right for them.
Do you know that in my daughters year , she anticipates that around 30% of girls (not boys ) are bisexual ?
Besides being statistically abnormal , it also goes to show that kids follow trends , and are not entirely capable of making decisions based on their future or reality .
Dangerous games they want to play when it brings gender and transitioning into play
Who’s reality? Like Dubed said “You cannot make anybody non-binary or transgender, any more than you can make anybody gay”. If your reality is you’re non binary, transgender, gay or whatever then this is their reality. Isn’t it better that these children have a safe environment to express themselves without fear?I can't sorry... shouldn't have raised it on here should have known better , educated yes ...absolutely miles away from reality...yes
Educated people are making these decisions too .
Maybe the system Is just broken
Who’s reality? Like Dubed said “You cannot make anybody non-binary or transgender, any more than you can make anybody gay”. If your reality is you’re non binary, transgender, gay or whatever then this is their reality. Isn’t it better that these children have a safe environment to express themselves without fear?
Who’s reality? Like Dubed said “You cannot make anybody non-binary or transgender, any more than you can make anybody gay”. If your reality is you’re non binary, transgender, gay or whatever then this is their reality. Isn’t it better that these children have a safe environment to express themselves without fear?
How exactly were you proposing to provide a counter-argument to my experience?
I note dubed has stepped out of this convo and I’m genuinely sorry to see that, their voice would be valuable but like hill in the racism thread I totally get that they’ve better things to do than have this debate. I think I’ll take that as a hint to leave the topic alone, but that debate needs to be had and resolved before governments mandate the result not after.
Isnt part of the problem with all this that not enough people say what they actually think and we allow policies like this to be implemented without us pushing back .
Not many agree with things like this , and they are being pushed ahead anyway
I don't care what dubed experience is , we are talking about kids as young as 4 .. his feelings don't matter in that case
Fact is mate we can culture war this shit up and rant at each other or we can listen and understand and hopefully come to a sensible conclusion.
Going in like Nick in a 5-a-side match isn’t helping though.
You do not think I was 4 once, and know how it felt?
You do not think I was 4 once, and know how it felt?
Wider acceptance and understanding in society might have something to do with it. How many children would have felt safe to do this even 10 years ago? School can be brutal for anyone “different”. We had one out gay kid in my year when I was in high school in the 90’s and he was a complete outcast/loner. If anyone did say anything to him it was always with malice so he just used to hide in the corners hoping no one would notice him. That’s no environment for any child in that scenario to develop balanced.Why do you think the number of girls transitioning has skyrocketed in recent years?
How many? What’s the percentages? It’s very difficult to get the surgery. You can’t just walk in of the street on a whim and say lob these off.If that's the case then why do so many people who transition wish they never and want to revert back ?
If they become what they are , then why do they want to change it after surgery?
Wider acceptance and understanding in society might have something to do with it. How many children would have felt safe to do this even 10 years ago? School can be brutal for anyone “different”. We had one out gay kid in my year when I was in high school in the 90’s and he was a complete outcast/loner. If anyone did say anything to him it was always with malice so he just used to hide in the corners hoping no one would notice him. That’s no environment for any child in that scenario to develop balanced.
The other reason might be education. There’s information out there now on identity that just wasn’t there even 10 years ago.
Most yes.
100%
Very, very difficult situation. Handle with great care, not be rushed, and needs very firm legal and medical oversight. But that's not we were discussing. I haven't seen anything about schools acting as conduit for gender reassignment and other treatment. What I have seen is the idea that if John says to his teacher she/he wants to be called a different name, the teacher should not challenge.
This whole thing has been about kids at such a young age being taken under the wing of the education system with government consent and not parents knowledge .
For some reason we have adults that seem to agree with it and it ended up with them being told they were weird ..which they are if they accept this is normal
Moving away from the gender stuff. I think this is a fascinating topic. On one level kids have rights and on the other parents do too and I’m not sure where that right balance is other than to say we should tread very carefully and set the bar quite high for removing a parents right to parent how they see fit.
There's no treading carefully .
My girls are behaved impeccably, they are polite and they have good friends .
Under my roof their rights will always be limited by me ..old fashioned or not I don't care .. many kids are influenced by their parents today and many parents are fucking useless, who are to blame for the state of kids today ? It's not the kids
Again, you are simply turning the discussion to what you want to debate, which is medical intervention in the young (teenagers), not what is being discussed here. But as you seem to want to make that stretch, then, my view on that, and indeed all gender reassignment, happens to be that if there were more acceptance of non-binary behaviour then people wouldn't feel so forced to change themselves to fit perceived societal norms?
Second point, I couldn't give a shit, as you don't want to have a rational debate, just be outraged.
Third point. Oh, I can, I remember very clearly the time and the place when I was playing with my sister and her girlfriend and we all decided it would be good fun to dress up. The look of a mix of sheer horror and disgust on my Dad's face when I enter the room with a fluffy coat and my Mums shoes is something etched on my mind.
I'd say the majority of transgender folk knew how they felt at that age, not uncommon at all.
Have I now disgusted you?
P.S. After I transitioned, I turned my life around from being a drunk, continually high on cannabis, and spending every second night on the phone to the Sarmatians. I went back to school to get my degrees, masters and doctorate, got a good paying job and a house, and became a mentally stable, tax-paying upright citizen. Following which, my Dad was the best Father I could have wished for. And that included us going to watch the City together once more.
Again, you are simply turning the discussion to what you want to debate, which is medical intervention in the young (teenagers), not what is being discussed here. But as you seem to want to make that stretch, then, my view on that, and indeed all gender reassignment, happens to be that if there were more acceptance of non-binary behaviour then people wouldn't feel so forced to change themselves to fit perceived societal norms?
Second point, I couldn't give a shit, as you don't want to have a rational debate, just be outraged.
Third point. Oh, I can, I remember very clearly the time and the place when I was playing with my sister and her girlfriend and we all decided it would be good fun to dress up. The look of a mix of sheer horror and disgust on my Dad's face when I enter the room with a fluffy coat and my Mums shoes is something etched on my mind.
I'd say the majority of transgender folk knew how they felt at that age, not uncommon at all.
Have I now disgusted you?
P.S. After I transitioned, I turned my life around from being a drunk, continually high on cannabis, and spending every second night on the phone to the Sarmatians. I went back to school to get my degrees, masters and doctorate, got a good paying job and a house, and became a mentally stable, tax-paying upright citizen. Following which, my Dad was the best Father I could have wished for. And that included us going to watch the City together once more.
OK, but what if you aren’t a good parent? What if you mentally, physically, or sexually abuse a child? Beat them? Starve them? Lock them in a box of live rats in the hope of turning them into Idris Elba in Suicide Squad? Did that QAnon guy have the right to kill his kids because he thought they had serpent DNA?
Obviously there’s a line where the state should step in. And there’s gradients of what physical and mental abuse is. Smacking vs breaking bones for example, telling a kid they need to learn to use a can opener to have dinner vs starving them for days.
Equally can an ISIS supporting parent be left to indoctrinate their kid? What about a fundamentalist Christian? What about someone who believes in gender identity?
Should we allow kids to be taken out of school and denied an education? What’s effective home schooling and what’s denying them a rounded education? What about banning private education?
There’s a million grey areas on this topic.
Shmmeee, actually that point was actually to underscore my relationship with my father came out good, not that the gender transition road is the right one or is paved with happiness. So thank you for allowing me to make that clarification.
Well yea I mean you've gone from me being a semi strict dad to killing kids
I know what you mean , within reason
Shmmeee, actually that point was actually to underscore my relationship with my father came out good, not that the gender transition road is the right one or is paved with happiness. So thank you for allowing me to make that clarification.
Again, you are simply turning the discussion to what you want to debate, which is medical intervention in the young (teenagers), not what is being discussed here. But as you seem to want to make that stretch, then, my view on that, and indeed all gender reassignment, happens to be that if there were more acceptance of non-binary behaviour then people wouldn't feel so forced to change themselves to fit perceived societal norms?
Second point, I couldn't give a shit, as you don't want to have a rational debate, just be outraged.
Third point. Oh, I can, I remember very clearly the time and the place when I was playing with my sister and her girlfriend and we all decided it would be good fun to dress up. The look of a mix of sheer horror and disgust on my Dad's face when I enter the room with a fluffy coat and my Mums shoes is something etched on my mind.
I'd say the majority of transgender folk knew how they felt at that age, not uncommon at all.
Have I now disgusted you?
P.S. After I transitioned, I turned my life around from being a drunk, continually high on cannabis, and spending every second night on the phone to the Sarmatians. I went back to school to get my degrees, masters and doctorate, got a good paying job and a house, and became a mentally stable, tax-paying upright citizen. Following which, my Dad was the best Father I could have wished for. And that included us going to watch the City together once more.
I think I may have quoted the wrong post or misread there on reflection my comment isn’t appropriate for a reply to yours.
Let me ask a question more relevant though: you say transition gave you all this stuff. It could have come from a born again Christian. And be just as genuine. Would you accept a school pushing that onto children is they gave a hint of believing in God?
We simply don’t know enough about mental health and teachers definitely aren’t qualified to make these decisions. Let adults do what works for them, but tread carefully with child mental health because it’s not a clear path at all and mistreads can have serious consequences
Bit of an odd comparison I think. I developed sociophobia and a crushing depression aged 14, from a combination of dread that anyone might know 'me' and what was to become of me. I pretty much kept myself locked away, outside work, until my mid-twenties and then dulled the senses with alcohol and cannabis. Transitioning was a great step forward on the road towards actualisation (and therefore an ability to engage opportunities), but not necessarily authentication. I'm still working on that.
To be clear again, I wasn't saying 'Hey kids, get GR, it's great". I was simply trying to say that whatever the fears and concerns of my Catholic father, love conquers all.
What is being taught here? Be yourself. That's as far away as any religion or ideology that I can think of.
have I missed something- where does it say that things are going to be ‘pushed onto children’?
surely is just about creating a safe environment where everyone can be what they want to be, with no questions asked- can only talk for me but far as I’m concerned that’s a really good thing.
Totally agree that this is the issue - inform or don't inform - but we seem to have got taken off that track, entirely.
Regards 2., I think perhaps then, you do not understand the terms (transgender) and gender dysphoria. I can't actually conceive of anybody who could be trans and not have been dysphoric. It's not logical. If we are talking about being non-binary, that's another matter,
Should everything a child says be affirmed?
What if a child says they’re evil? What if they say their fat? Which delusions is it acceptable to reinforce in children excactly in your opinion because it’s clearly not all of them I’d hope?
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