No one on this thread has ever used the words of Conservative politicians against them then? God forbid some are forced to look a bit closer to home.
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You might not have said Labour remain voters but I did.
I'd characterise it as back stabbing because it is... we think you are stupid and made a poor decision are you sure you wouldn't like to change your mind? That worked well didn't it.
Democracy isn't really comparable to an episode of Who Wants to be a Millionaire is it really.
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The ironic thing is that Corbyn’s personal Brexit stance would actually have been popular in these seats and in the past he had given leftist arguments in favour of it.
You might not have said Labour remain voters but I did.
I'd characterise it as back stabbing because it is... we think you are stupid and made a poor decision are you sure you wouldn't like to change your mind? That worked well didn't it.
Democracy isn't really comparable to an episode of Who Wants to be a Millionaire is it really.
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I think you may be right.I agree, he should have had the balls to stand by it.
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Again, you may be right but don't underestimate how strongly millions of Remainers feel. It will be a factor in pulling many Labour leaning voters towards Greens, LDs, SNP and PC. Enough to stop Labour in many constituencies.I disagree with you, I think Labour remainers voters would have largely stayed with them regardless. No one votes for Lib Dems and Change UK was it? Well... lol
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John McDonnell?
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Again, you may be right but don't underestimate how strongly millions of Remainers feel. It will be a factor in pulling many Labour leaning voters towards Greens, LDs, SNP and PC. Enough to stop Labour in many constituencies.
You can’t go against the basic will of the people. It’s democracy in its most fundamental form, and if happened in another country we’d be sending in monitors and the like."Stab them in the back" or "Allow a chance for a rethink"?
Labour's timidity and fence sitting over Brexit lost both Leavers and Remainers as I feared it would all along.
From day one Labour should have labelled it "Tory Quitters" and had nothing to do with it. But we all know Labour was too divided and many on the left loved Brexit.
We'll have to disagree amicably then.You can’t go against the basic will of the people. It’s democracy in its most fundamental form, and if happened in another country we’d be sending in monitors and the like.
You can argue the merits of its shitness all day long, but it had to be honoured.
In the future of the voting public want it enough, they should be given the chance to rejoin if they so desire.
I won’t actually disagree with anything you said here - the referendum was a sham from start to finish… BUT most people aren’t aware of the finer details of it all. They saw Labour’s approach as an assault on democracy… ignoring the fact that Cameron’s fudge to solve an interval party dispute was far worse.We'll have to disagree amicably then.
The 'will of the people' is a nonsense phrase to me. We are all individuals and there is no fixed will or opinion. Such a notion is fascistic as it imagines a collective which doesn't exist. The people who got to vote didn't include EU citizens for example, or anyone currently under the age of 23.
Referendums should only be held on definite propositions if at all. They should require supermajorities if they involve major constitutional change.
It is a perversion of democracy.
Absolutely, and I'm not trying to rerun the whole thing. Too late for that.I won’t actually disagree with anything you said here - the referendum was a sham from start to finish… BUT most people aren’t aware of the finer details of it all. They saw Labour’s approach as an assault on democracy… ignoring the fact that Cameron’s fudge to solve an interval party dispute was far worse.
One thing that the Remain camp have still failed to do to this day is really look inwards as to why it lost.
The ironic thing is that Corbyn’s personal Brexit stance would actually have been popular in these seats and in the past he had given leftist arguments in favour of it.
I agree, he should have had the balls to stand by it.
Labour should have gone out after the referendum and said to their leave voting constituencies ‘sorry we neglected you and your towns when we were in power’ if you give us the chance to lead this exit this is how you’ll see the benefits. But they didn’t anywhere near enough, and should have been a much higher priority than keeping PV campaigners in London happy.Absolutely, and I'm not trying to rerun the whole thing. Too late for that.
But I am trying to explain how Labour got in a mess trying to keep their Leave voters onside instead of taking a clear stand against Brexit. It was difficult but by trying to placate everyone they pleased no-one.
IMO many Remain voters will not just meekly go back to supporting Labour. They are just as much a headache for Labour as Red wall Leavers.
Firstly I never said I was a fence sitter, I don't sit on the fence.
Secondly I have no idea why 'revert to type' has your back up.
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OuchI’ve only known you exist last couple of weeks
Ermm what's wrong with that exactly? Why should anyone be forced to come out?
If by Grendels double act you mean the only non left winger to enter the circle jerk then so be it I guess.
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I not quite sure what's got your back up exactly, i simply how no idea why the public are obsessed with what goes on in people's bedrooms. I mean we could talk about you making disparaging comments about the disabled couldn't we...
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You don't know me so please don't make assumptions.
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OK cool, thanks me letting me know. Still like to know how you got all bent out of shape about 'revert to type.'
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Thing is I actually backed him when he made his disabled comments and people were getting on his case, yet he's actually getting super wound up about posts of mine that aren't even offensive. He doesn't know anything about me.Just leave it lads , hill get pissed , Tom go bench press a car , il post silly gifs that never get any responses ... all is good
Just leave it lads , hill get pissed , Tom go bench press a car , il post silly gifs that never get any responses ... all is good
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