stupot07
Well-Known Member
The rise of the SNP haven't helped.
And now the tories want to change the constituency boundaries to make it even more in their favour.
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The rise of the SNP haven't helped.OK here's a question .
Why do Labour keep losing if the tories are so bad , and why are the working class voting for them in their droves if Labour offer them more
It's not rocket science. The reasons are quite straightforward.
1. An aspirational working-class wanting to improve the lives of their families through their own means rather than rely on welfarism and paternalism, and a perception that the Tories always manage the economy better (counter-argument - the working class are stupid).
2. Brexit, and the failure of Corbyn to offer a credible position on Brexit (counter-argument - the working class are racist).
3. The almost farcical lack of credibility around Labour's spending programme, and a discontent with the metropolitan bourgeois and identity politics (counter-argument - the working class are both stupid and racist).
1 and 3 don't stand up to scrutiny.
I agree with you on 2.
They do especially 1 - class based politics “we are the party of the working classes” is not a modern aspirational message. Class system politics is dying.
Lol David Schneider a reason again why people wouldn’t vote Labour
It's not rocket science. The reasons are quite straightforward.
1. An aspirational working-class wanting to improve the lives of their families through their own means rather than rely on welfarism and paternalism, and a perception that the Tories always manage the economy better (counter-argument - the working class are stupid).
2. Brexit, and the failure of Corbyn to offer a credible position on Brexit (counter-argument - the working class are racist).
3. The almost farcical lack of credibility around Labour's spending programme, and a discontent with the metropolitan bourgeois and identity politics (counter-argument - the working class are both stupid and racist).
I see what you're saying but aren't you impacted by the state of public services such as the NHS or huge cuts to council funding etc?Where am I being severely hampered by the Tories as a working class man
This continued argument makes no sense.
"I won't vote for Labour because I don't like this man on Twitter, so I'll just vote for the party that continues to wreck the country and gives zero fucks about people like me. That'll teach that nasty man on twitter"
An aspirational working-class wanting to improve the lives of their families through their own means rather than rely on welfarism and paternalism, and a perception that the Tories always manage the economy better
I'm struggling to believe the person working on minimum wage at Tesco or McDonalds thinks if they keep voting Conservative they'll be sending their kids to private school. Just seems another way of saying voters are stupid which I'm not a fan of.Not saying people aren't aspirational but that's not what the tories offer.
I'm struggling to believe the person working on minimum wage at Tesco or McDonalds thinks if they keep voting Conservative they'll be sending their kids to private school. Just seems another way of saying voters are stupid which I'm not a fan of.
But lets assume thats true, as many are saying, and people are voting Conservative as they are aspirational and believe they can achieve that under the Conservatives. What Conservative policies aid that aspiration?
Find this topic fascinating as logically you'd expect people to vote for the party whose policies would benefit them the most personally but that doesn't seem to happen.
The only one calling them racist thickos is yourself. Repeatedly.
We've asked and asked what's so appealing about the Tories but STILL haven't had an answer.
The only one calling them racist thickos is yourself. Repeatedly.
We've asked and asked what's so appealing about the Tories but STILL haven't had an answer.
Ah, the classic 'ignore what's been posted' and a touch of responding to tone. That's two ticked off.
Ah, the classic 'ignore what's been posted' and a touch of responding to tone. That's two ticked off.
The only ones ignoring what's been posted are the those who can't name what's so appealing about the Tories despite being asked 6438153 times
Why isn’t anyone saying what Labour would offer to change the status quo
I think maybe then you have skipped a few posts, or you are choosing to ignore, which you do have a tendency to do.
See it's things like this which are aspirational - even the broadband for all is aspirational. It's giving people the opportunity to upskill, and develop, and progress themselves. It's giving more life chances.Increased funding for education
tbf, ignoring and generalisation isn't really unique to just one poster on just one side of the argument...I think maybe then you have skipped a few posts, or you are choosing to ignore, which you do have a tendency to do.
See it's things like this which are aspirational - even the broadband for all is aspirational. It's giving people the opportunity to upskill, and develop, and progress themselves. It's giving more life chances.
Look at the 2017 manifesto. Personal things I’d like:
£11 minimum wage
Legalisation of cannabis
VAT cut to 17.5% or lower
Increased funding for education with an aim to cap classroom sizes at 25
Nationalisation of rail
Aggressive pursuit of corporate taxes from the worst suspects
Most people couldn’t care about any of those things. They aren’t big issue vote winners
A lot of raising up benefits everybody, mind. There is a certain individualistic attitude in society though, that's got worse over time, which sees aspiration as improving yourself... with no downside for yourself, no payoff. I always admired my Granddad's attitude and yep, good working class stock, my Gran's family were chainmakers in the Black Country. But he was in the Navy, came out, went to night school to re-train and, well, never had *much* money but was at least able to own his own home, and his own car. His attitude was that being fortunate, it was time to give others a better opportunity than he had if possible and, if that meant higher taxes to pay for better education, better health, a better welfare state...then that was the price to pay, and he owed society for the chances he'd had himself.Higher minimum wages for me work two fold to also cut the welfare bill so we aren’t subsidising wages and also making a job in itself offer more financial security. VAT being cut would also make a substantial difference to living costs and businesses all round.
Most people couldn’t care about any of those things. They aren’t big issue vote winners
A lot of raising up benefits everybody, mind. There is a certain individualistic attitude in society though, that's got worse over time, which sees aspiration as improving yourself... with no downside for yourself, no payoff. I always admired my Granddad's attitude and yep, good working class stock, my Gran's family were chainmakers in the Black Country. But he was in the Navy, came out, went to night school to re-train and, well, never had *much* money but was at least able to own his own home, and his own car. His attitude was that being fortunate, it was time to give others a better opportunity than he had if possible and, if that meant higher taxes to pay for better education, better health, a better welfare state...then that was the price to pay, and he owed society for the chances he'd had himself.
It's a tough sell, that, though, when many people look at the immediate what's in your wallet right now position.
People don’t care about a tax cut and higher wages?
Whereas cronyism, corruption and benefit to the rich are?
You've not answered the question what do the tories offer
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