Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Actually it’s a joke policy that’s watered down the education system and the consequences are huge future burdens to the taxpayer

It was fine when you could go for free though right

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Actually it’s a joke policy that’s watered down the education system and the consequences are huge future burdens to the taxpayer

If you funded it properly, so that universities actually judged on entry requirements and ability, then it would work perfectly fine.

As it stands, we have neither a free education system to enable people to skill-up, but nor do we have an appropriate gate-keeping process to enable those capable of skilling-up, and motivated to do so, are those accepted.

 

[Grendel]

It was fine when you could go for free though right

Then only a selected number went rather than a watered down system where people can attain pointless degrees and are not prepared for the work place

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well again whether you like or not the Labour Party is second when trusted on the economy and has a hurdle to overcome and a reduced consumer spending tax could be then supported by higher taxation in other areas

You asked for policies that would benefit the working classes/low incomes, I give them and you say they aren't vote winners so no point going for them. Again if 'I'll put more money in your pocket' isn't a vote winner I really don't know what is-just admit it's a popularity contest and right now we have Bart Simpson against Martin Prince

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Then only a selected number went rather than a watered down system where people can attain pointless degrees and are not prepared for the work place

It still facilitated your employment prospects did it not

 

[Grendel]

You asked for policies that would benefit the working classes/low incomes, I give them and you say they aren't vote winners so no point going for them. Again if 'I'll put more money in your pocket' isn't a vote winner I really don't know what is-just admit it's a popularity contest and right now we have Bart Simpson against Martin Prince

It is t though as people believe the money will be taken else where due to their believe Labour is economically incompetent- especially under the last shadow administration

 

[Grendel]

It still facilitated your employment prospects did it not

Which is because it was a proper system then which at least attempted to issue degrees that had some academic competence to attain it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It is t though as people believe the money will be taken else where due to their believe Labour is economically incompetent- especially under the last shadow administration

Well funnily enough all tax cuts cost money, the difference being this one would benefit the ordinary person rather than the already well off

 

[Ian1779]

Which is because it was a proper system then which at least attempted to issue degrees that had some academic competence to attain it

So what you are saying is that it all went to shit once Universities were able to start charging students for their courses.

 

[Marty]

Da Costa is dreadful, couldn't pass wind.

Edit:- wrong thread.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Then only a selected number went rather than a watered down system where people can attain pointless degrees and are not prepared for the work place

And most of those were taken up by those in a privileged position able to pay for it. Loads of capable working class kids missed out.

Also why does free education have to just mean uni? Why not include vocational in it and treat them as equals.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The Tories are in government they don’t have to offer anything other than the status quo of the majority of people are happy with that and cliche nonsense on paragraph 1 - no one gives a toss

Status quo. Other than the biggest change in nearly half a century with Brexit?

People clearly aren't happy. If they were they'd have rejected Brexit. It's not that they're happy. It's that they keep getting duped into what the problems are and what's causing them.

 

[PVA]

Ahh there's that spitefulness I mentioned earlier.

Grendel got his free education, god forbid anyone else gets a free education.

Pull that ladder up after yourself like a good little Tory.

 

[Grendel]

Ahh there's that spitefulness I mentioned earlier.

Grendel got his free education, god forbid anyone else gets a free education.

Pull that ladder up after yourself like a good little Tory.

They all get a free education now - just rather like the comprehensive system it’s watered down and ruins working class people’s chances of success

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They all get a free education now - just rather like the comprehensive system it’s watered down and ruins working class people’s chances of success

All grammar schools do is sway a bias towards those who can pay for private tuition to ace the 11+, as the government commissioned research into them showed.

 

[Grendel]

All grammar schools do is sway a bias towards those who can pay for private tuition to ace the 11+, as the government commissioned research into them showed.

im taking the system in the 70’s you knumbskull

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

im taking the system in the 70’s you knumbskull

Spelling and grammar errors intentional?

 

[Grendel]

Spelling and grammar errors intentional?

Well really it’s just nonsense isn’t it. In what way was the decision to introduce a system of education that drove down to the lowest common denominator a good thing?

the funny thing of course is the very people who instigated the project made damn sure their children weren’t a part of it

 

[PVA]

im taking the system in the 70’s you knumbskull

Are you sure you had an education?

 

[Grendel]

Are you sure you had an education?

I am genuinely fascinated by your logic I received a free education when people today do not

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well really it’s just nonsense isn’t it. In what way was the decision to introduce a system of education that drove down to the lowest common denominator a good thing?

the funny thing of course is the very people who instigated the project made damn sure their children weren’t a part of it

Well it isn't, there's been large scale longitudinal studies as well as in depth analysis of countries with more selective education systems e.g. Singapore to see how it would unfold here. Grammar schools get better outcomes because traditionally they employ teachers with more experience, stronger subject knowledge and better links to more elite universities.

To get into these parents who can afford it invest heavily in getting their child to pass the 11+, which in itself is an outdated measure of intelligence/aptitude for success. Those who can't afford it are at a disadvantage, but those who do get in despite that get a very small but statistically significant gain on progress compared to local comps.

Then the kids who go through a grammar will odds on go and get a stronger degree to get a higher paid job and can afford to have children and give them the same financial headstart. The government's own commissioned research into it concluded that all it would do is widen and further entrench inequality.

This all disregarding of course the idea you should be deciding someone's future based on a restricted set of tests at the age of 11.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

So what you are saying is that it all went to shit once Universities were able to start charging students for their courses.

Yes, pretty much so. When I first started lecturing at Warwick, it was expected that 4-5% of students would obtain a first. 2.2's were looked upon as a bit rum but not as fails. When I left only a few years later, we lecturers had been leant on to award firsts to 20% of students, and we received official complaints from customers students who had been awarded 2.2s.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

It was fine when you could go for free though right

It was fine for the 5-7% who went. The rest of us just got a job at 16, paid our taxes and cracked on. But then, we didn't have social media to whine into.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was fine for the 5-7% who went. The rest of us just got a job at 16, paid our taxes and cracked on. But then, we didn't have social media to whine into.

Of course. More permanent and full time work though as opposed to the zero hour, temporary and part time fare that forms a bigger bulk of the economy than it did then. And just FYI I hardly use social media either.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes, pretty much so. When I first started lecturing at Warwick, it was expected that 4-5% of students would obtain a first. 2.2's were looked upon as a bit rum but not as fails. When I left only a few years later, we lecturers had been leant on to award firsts to 20% of students, and we received official complaints from customers students who had been awarded 2.2s.

Equally bad when universities get their funding on completion rates, so where's the incentive to kick out a badly underperforming (or regularly dishonest!) student?

Sometimes, it can be the best thing for the student to set them free too - either Mummy or Daddy have forced them to go, or they're emotionally too immature just at the time (I know I'd have done better with a year or two gap before going, so not being patronising to some of them!) so would be betetr doing a degree, if they want to, at a time of their lives when they can maximise their potential in it.

But no, keep them in for the funding!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Equally bad when universities get their funding on completion rates, so where's the incentive to kick out a badly underperforming (or regularly dishonest!) student?

Sometimes, it can be the best thing for the student to set them free too - either Mummy or Daddy have forced them to go, or they're emotionally too immature just at the time (I know I'd have done better with a year or two gap before going, so not being patronising to some of them!) so would be betetr doing a degree, if they want to, at a time of their lives when they can maximise their potential in it.

But no, keep them in for the funding!

Quite liked it in Scotland where the first year didn't count for anything and was largely a refresher of A-level so you could use it to get settled, manage a budget and so on. Second year still didn't count towards your classification but the difficulty ramped up. If folks wanted to go straight in to the 2nd year that was also an option

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Quite liked it in Scotland where the first year didn't count for anything and was largely a refresher of A-level so you could use it to get settled, manage a budget and so on. Second year still didn't count towards your classification but the difficulty ramped up. If folks wanted to go straight in to the 2nd year that was also an option

First year didn't count for me either, I worked hard in that year, carried it over from A Levels.

Second year I belatedly found wine, women, and song.

Got it the wrong way round!

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Of course. More permanent and full time work though as opposed to the zero hour, temporary and part time fare that forms a bigger bulk of the economy than it did then. And just FYI I hardly use social media either.

Ah, life was so much easier and better back then. At 17 I got a job working on the production line at Chrysler Peugeot - great fun, you should try it, especially working the welding machines. I was made redundant two years later.

A year later, during the 80s recession, I managed to get onto a forty-eight quid-a-week Youth Opportunities scheme, planting trees.

As there were no jobs after that, I went travelling the world for two years, working as I travelled. When I got back I got a job in a warehouse, working night shift. Having self-funded and successfully studied for a degree whilst in full-time work, I then further self-funded a full-time degree, whilst also taking in lodgers to help keep my mortgage. I then successfully entered into national competitions for stipends and funding for higher degrees.

Nobody helped me, I got off my arse and did it. Yes, the lack of good, solid jobs for the working class is an issue, but you're going back to the fifties and early sixties to re-live that world.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

First year didn't count for me either, I worked hard in that year, carried it over from A Levels.

Second year I belatedly found wine, women, and song.

Got it the wrong way round!

I still put the work in for both years, had afternoon labs 3 times a week even in first year! Then when honours kicked off we'd have 20 hours of labs a week and 15 hours of lectures-still degrees now are a piece of piss with no academic integrity

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ah, life was so much easier and better back then. At 17 I got a job working on the production line at Chrysler Peugeot - great fun, you should try it, especially working the welding machines. I was made redundant two years later.

A year later, during the 80s recession, I managed to get onto a forty-eight quid-a-week Youth Opportunities scheme, planting trees.

As there were no jobs after that, I went travelling the world for two years, working as I travelled. When I got back I got a job in a warehouse, working night shift. Having successfully (paid for and) studied for a degree whilst in full-time work, I then further self-funded a full-time degree, whilst also taking in lodgers to help keep my mortgage. I then successfully entered into national competitions for stipends and funding for higher degrees.

Nobody helped me, I got off my arse and did it. Yes, the lack of good, solid jobs for the working class is an issue, but you're going back to the fifties and early sixties to re-live that world.

My Dad borrowed money off his old man to start a video rental trolley business in Cov around that time, then took an HND at the Lanch to get into IT and sales where he still is. You do realise, right, that commenting on the difficulties of a young person finding work right now doesn't mean that I think everything before was a piece of piss.

Apprenticeships now are a tool to hire people for practically nothing with little real intention of taking them on after they're done, and the workforce is genuinely shifted in favour of less secure and less financially stable work. Then of course here we are as a divided workforce taking swipes at each other when the real enemies are those above.

 

[PVA]

Nobody helped me, I got off my arse and did it. Yes, the lack of good, solid jobs for the working class is an issue, but you're going back to the fifties and early sixties to re-live that world.

And there's the spite again.

You had it tough so God forbid the youth of today have an easier time of it.

Get them back in the mines and the mills like the good old days eh.

 

[stupot07]

I still put the work in for both years, had afternoon labs 3 times a week even in first year! Then when honours kicked off we'd have 20 hours of labs a week and 15 hours of lectures-still degrees now are a piece of piss with no academic integrity

Very similar to my degree, plus all the reading and assignments you're expected to do.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Very similar to my degree, plus all the reading and assignments you're expected to do.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

One year of my course was spent working in industry alongside distance learning modules, then the final year was a lab-based research project plus a full complement of lectures. Still, all degrees now pale in comparison to those of the 80s right

 

[Grendel]

One year of my course was spent working in industry alongside distance learning modules, then the final year was a lab-based research project plus a full complement of lectures. Still, all degrees now pale in comparison to those of the 80s right

No all don’t but many many do with little contact time

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No all don’t but many many do with little contact time

At least that's something but contact time has been traditionally low in humanities and arts subjects for as long as they've existed