What do you actually mean by 'courting of the woke'?These are the votes for the Socialist Party in France over 50 years. Next election they are predicted to not even make it past the first round.
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Some people are speculating that the British Labour Party is going the same way. My pet theory is that Ed Miliband's decision to stand against his brother and move Left was a critical moment in history. And the courting of the woke is alienating traditional Labour voters in the North further still.
What do you actually mean by 'courting of the woke'?
I mean all the post-modern stuff that appeals to middle-class Socialists: self gender-id; trans women in women's toilets and prisons; no-platforming; critical race theory; taking the knee for BLM... I think Starmer is astute enough to realise that what plays well in Islington doesn't in Hartlepool - but he's not going to find it easy to find a path through the middle and he still has people like Rayner who will pull him away from Workington man.
Love it when Islington is used as an insult, when only one of the two party leaders lives there, and it isn’t Starmer.
I think the woke stuff isn’t liked, but I don’t think the British public is the 14 year old edge lords you portray them as either.
Polling suggests the public support self id and medically transitioned TW in women’s spaces for example, but not in transitioned:
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On this issue alone Con voters are out of step on 7 compared to 6 for Labour voters.
On BLM and taking the knee the public is split but generally supports the aims of BLM:
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That first column after the totals is Con voters, again out of step with public opinion on the overall issue.
There’s little to no polling on CRT because outside of edgelord and woke Twitter it’s a completely meaningless phrase with no cut through to the general public.
And you say middle class, but again the proportion of votes from the middle classes are higher for the Tories than Labour:
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It really doesn’t get more complex than this:
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And this:
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"Islington" - I wanted one word to summarise the kind of people to whom I was referring. It wasn't intended as an insult but a reference point.
"Woke Stuff" - I tend to agree. Britain is, on the whole, a very tolerant society. Few, I suspect, would have any serious issue with a bloke wearing women's clothes and saying he's a woman - although they might be more likely to take the piss in a pub than to admit to being a bigot in a survey. However I also think that the typical person who would have a problem may be a builder or similar - i.e. working class.
But wokery takes it further than that and that's the bit people don't like: trans women playing in female sports and women with male genitalia being resident in women's prisons. I don't think that all these new genders play well with the general public either. It's not even about policies per se... it's perception. If you get a Labour MP insisting that we call them by some new pronoun, it'll be all over the news and not good news for Starmer. And I can imagine it happening.
Similarly, I think even fewer people nowadays think of themselves as racist... even some people I knew in the 80s who crossed well over the line for me no longer behave in that way. But what about the state paying reparations to all black people for slavery? I doubt that would be popular - but I can imagine Starmer being forced into taking that position.
There will be pressure on Starmer to sign off on the more extreme positions. This is what I meant.
I mean all the post-modern stuff that appeals to middle-class Socialists: self gender-id; trans women in women's toilets and prisons; no-platforming; critical race theory; taking the knee for BLM... I think Starmer is astute enough to realise that what plays well in Islington doesn't in Hartlepool - but he's not going to find it easy to find a path through the middle and he still has people like Rayner who will pull him away from Workington man.
The pressure really will be on him if he loses Hartlepool
I suspect many of the internal hierarchy want him to lose it
Woke
Gender
Trans
Race
BLM
Islington
Good to see the middle classes are dragging themselves out of bed to join in after a slow start in the conservatory with an organic egg on rye bread while flicking through the guardian
Is there anything else on your CV?
Is there anything else on your CV?
Is there anything else in your vocabulary? Literally all you have is these buzzwords. Just surprised you missed out snowflake and Marxism.
You called me working class yesterday. Which is it?
Make your mind up grandad.
If you must know I had buttered toast and a black coffee.
There's a small element of extreme left wing 'woke' weirdos who support Labour.
Apparently that's a good enough reason not to vote Labour.
I had you down as an Earl grey chap. Was it organic Kopi Luwak? It’s so in vogue
Where was that said?
You said Labour are alienating the North by courting wokery.
i.e. People aren't voting Labour because of the extreme left.
I did. It's my analysis of why Labour continues to trail in the polls and is projected to lose more of the red wall in the upcoming elections. It's not my argument for not voting Labour. Indeed, I'm more likely to vote Labour myself now than at any time in the past 6 years. I won't; but it's no longer inconceivable.
Nuance is important and appreciating nuance is becoming, IMO, a rare talent.
Why do you think that Labour is losing the working class?
I did. It's my analysis of why Labour continues to trail in the polls and is projected to lose more of the red wall in the upcoming elections. It's not my argument for not voting Labour. Indeed, I'm more likely to vote Labour myself now than at any time in the past 6 years. I won't; but it's no longer inconceivable.
Nuance is important and appreciating nuance is becoming, IMO, a rare talent.
Why do you think that Labour is losing the working class?
There are so many fallacies really
- only old vote tory
- the educated vote Labour
You think they are fallacies?
well I wouldn’t call 39 old and I assume if you believe the second one you voted for Boris Johnson anyway at the last election
Cheers, wasn't trying to be mischievous genuinely don't quite understand what people mean by terms surrounding woke/anti-woke at the minute. Or maybe more so it seems a bit of a lazy catch all thing sometimes. Shit buzzword anyway. The framing of this sort of stuff as the important matter of the day is the cleverest part.I mean all the post-modern stuff that appeals to middle-class Socialists: self gender-id; trans women in women's toilets and prisons; no-platforming; critical race theory; taking the knee for BLM... I think Starmer is astute enough to realise that what plays well in Islington doesn't in Hartlepool - but he's not going to find it easy to find a path through the middle and he still has people like Rayner who will pull him away from Workington man.
I don't think it's a small amount to be fair , it's a huge chunk of their membership for starters(Labour)There's a small element of extreme left wing 'woke' weirdos who support Labour.
Apparently that's a good enough reason not to vote Labour.
There's a small element of extreme right wing racists who support the Conservatives.
Why is that never mentioned by those who don't want to vote Labour because of the extreme left? Surely that's a good enough reason not to vote Tory?
Can't have it both ways.
Labour needs to spilt. And then one of the 2 parts can merge with the Lib Dems.I don't know what Labour does now... it's in a right old pickle and whilst some of it is self-imposed (Miliband and then Corbyn) they are also the victim of the woke movement. I don't think Starmer has done very much wrong but he's not charismatic. Rayner would be worse - and just imagine if Richard Burgon took over! What do they do? David Miliband was their hope of government, IMO, and that ship has sailed. Is there anyone with a serious chance remaining?
I don't know the future but I can understand why some people are suggesting they are finished. And with the Lib Dems embracing wokery as well... the Tories have no opposition.
Wow that's weak, even for you.
I don't think it's a small amount to be fair , it's a huge chunk of their membership for starters(Labour)
The party is followed by millions of insufferable twats
Same could be said for the Conservatives though.
Is 39 old?
And what defines better education?
I think the difference is though the people that follow the tories on the whole aren't plastering their bullshit opinions all over social media .
The damage social media has done to the Labour party simply cannot be ignored
The older someone is the more likely they are to vote Tory.
The further into education someone goes the more likely they are to vote Labour.
Dress it up how you like, they are facts.
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