Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
The pressure really will be on him if he loses Hartlepool

I suspect many of the internal hierarchy want him to lose it

I don't know what Labour does now... it's in a right old pickle and whilst some of it is self-imposed (Miliband and then Corbyn) they are also the victim of the woke movement. I don't think Starmer has done very much wrong but he's not charismatic. Rayner would be worse - and just imagine if Richard Burgon took over! What do they do? David Miliband was their hope of government, IMO, and that ship has sailed. Is there anyone with a serious chance remaining?

I don't know the future but I can understand why some people are suggesting they are finished. And with the Lib Dems embracing wokery as well... the Tories have no opposition.

Grendel · May 1, 2021

Good to see the middle classes are dragging themselves out of bed to join in after a slow start in the conservatory with an organic egg on rye bread while flicking through the guardian

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
Woke
Gender
Trans
Race
BLM
Islington

Is there anything else on your CV?

PVA · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
Good to see the middle classes are dragging themselves out of bed to join in after a slow start in the conservatory with an organic egg on rye bread while flicking through the guardian

You called me working class yesterday. Which is it?

Make your mind up grandad.

If you must know I had buttered toast and a black coffee.

Grendel · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
Is there anything else on your CV?

I imagine him dusting his picture of Poly Toynbee while googling latest work terms

PVA · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
Is there anything else on your CV?

Is there anything else in your vocabulary? Literally all you have is these buzzwords. Just surprised you missed out snowflake and Marxism.

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
Is there anything else in your vocabulary? Literally all you have is these buzzwords. Just surprised you missed out snowflake and Marxism.

And that's why I think you're funny - even more amusing that Tony. You've scanned a post in response to a question: "what do you mean by courting the woke" to look for words relating to woke and gotten all excited when you find some. So funny.

PVA · May 1, 2021

There's a small element of extreme left wing 'woke' weirdos who support Labour.

Apparently that's a good enough reason not to vote Labour.

There's a small element of extreme right wing racists who support the Conservatives.

Why is that never mentioned by those who don't want to vote Labour because of the extreme left? Surely that's a good enough reason not to vote Tory?

Can't have it both ways.

Grendel · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
You called me working class yesterday. Which is it?

Make your mind up grandad.

If you must know I had buttered toast and a black coffee.

I had you down as an Earl grey chap. Was it organic Kopi Luwak? It’s so in vogue

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
There's a small element of extreme left wing 'woke' weirdos who support Labour.

Apparently that's a good enough reason not to vote Labour.

Where was that said?

Pity you deleted the other post. That told me!

PVA · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
I had you down as an Earl grey chap. Was it organic Kopi Luwak? It’s so in vogue

Well every assumption you've ever held about me is wrong. I'm touched that you take such an in interest in my life though.

PVA · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
Where was that said?

You said Labour are alienating the North by courting wokery.

i.e. People aren't voting Labour because of the extreme left.

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
You said Labour are alienating the North by courting wokery.

i.e. People aren't voting Labour because of the extreme left.

I did. It's my analysis of why Labour continues to trail in the polls and is projected to lose more of the red wall in the upcoming elections. It's not my argument for not voting Labour. Indeed, I'm more likely to vote Labour myself now than at any time in the past 6 years. I won't; but it's no longer inconceivable.

Nuance is important and appreciating nuance is becoming, IMO, a rare talent.

Why do you think that Labour is losing the working class?

PVA · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
I did. It's my analysis of why Labour continues to trail in the polls and is projected to lose more of the red wall in the upcoming elections. It's not my argument for not voting Labour. Indeed, I'm more likely to vote Labour myself now than at any time in the past 6 years. I won't; but it's no longer inconceivable.

Nuance is important and appreciating nuance is becoming, IMO, a rare talent.

Why do you think that Labour is losing the working class?

I think Labour lost the working class in the last election because of Brexit.

Partly because of Corbyn, but mostly because of Brexit.

Actually I don't think that's why they lost the working class, I know it is. It's pretty indisputable.

Brexit was a huge issue for the working class and the Tories was obviously the choice for anyone who wanted Brexit.

Of course they are now being utterly shafted by leaving the EU, but that's a different conversation.

Grendel · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
I did. It's my analysis of why Labour continues to trail in the polls and is projected to lose more of the red wall in the upcoming elections. It's not my argument for not voting Labour. Indeed, I'm more likely to vote Labour myself now than at any time in the past 6 years. I won't; but it's no longer inconceivable.

Nuance is important and appreciating nuance is becoming, IMO, a rare talent.

Why do you think that Labour is losing the working class?

There are so many fallacies really

- only old vote tory
- people are rejecting capitalism
- only thick working classes vote Tory
- the educated vote Labour

Im surprised we haven’t had someone suggest remove the vote from those who don’t know what’s good for them

Here’s a spoonful of socialism it’s good for you

PVA · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
There are so many fallacies really

- only old vote tory
- the educated vote Labour

You think they are fallacies?

Grendel · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
You think they are fallacies?

well I wouldn’t call 39 old and I assume if you believe the second one you voted for Boris Johnson anyway at the last election

PVA · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
well I wouldn’t call 39 old and I assume if you believe the second one you voted for Boris Johnson anyway at the last election

Wow that's weak, even for you.

Skybluefaz · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
I mean all the post-modern stuff that appeals to middle-class Socialists: self gender-id; trans women in women's toilets and prisons; no-platforming; critical race theory; taking the knee for BLM... I think Starmer is astute enough to realise that what plays well in Islington doesn't in Hartlepool - but he's not going to find it easy to find a path through the middle and he still has people like Rayner who will pull him away from Workington man.

Cheers, wasn't trying to be mischievous genuinely don't quite understand what people mean by terms surrounding woke/anti-woke at the minute. Or maybe more so it seems a bit of a lazy catch all thing sometimes. Shit buzzword anyway. The framing of this sort of stuff as the important matter of the day is the cleverest part.

Evo1883 · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
There's a small element of extreme left wing 'woke' weirdos who support Labour.

Apparently that's a good enough reason not to vote Labour.

There's a small element of extreme right wing racists who support the Conservatives.

Why is that never mentioned by those who don't want to vote Labour because of the extreme left? Surely that's a good enough reason not to vote Tory?

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think it's a small amount to be fair , it's a huge chunk of their membership for starters(Labour)

The party is followed by millions of insufferable twats

Sorry but it's true

Ian1779 · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
I don't know what Labour does now... it's in a right old pickle and whilst some of it is self-imposed (Miliband and then Corbyn) they are also the victim of the woke movement. I don't think Starmer has done very much wrong but he's not charismatic. Rayner would be worse - and just imagine if Richard Burgon took over! What do they do? David Miliband was their hope of government, IMO, and that ship has sailed. Is there anyone with a serious chance remaining?

I don't know the future but I can understand why some people are suggesting they are finished. And with the Lib Dems embracing wokery as well... the Tories have no opposition.

Labour needs to spilt. And then one of the 2 parts can merge with the Lib Dems.

Grendel · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
Wow that's weak, even for you.

Is 39 old?

And what defines better education?

PVA · May 1, 2021

Evo1883 said:
I don't think it's a small amount to be fair , it's a huge chunk of their membership for starters(Labour)

The party is followed by millions of insufferable twats

Same could be said for the Conservatives though.

Evo1883 · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
Same could be said for the Conservatives though.

I think the difference is though the people that follow the tories on the whole aren't plastering their bullshit opinions all over social media .

The damage social media has done to the Labour party simply cannot be ignored

PVA · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
Is 39 old?

And what defines better education?

The older someone is the more likely they are to vote Tory.

The further into education someone goes the more likely they are to vote Labour.

Dress it up how you like, they are facts.

PVA · May 1, 2021

Evo1883 said:
I think the difference is though the people that follow the tories on the whole aren't plastering their bullshit opinions all over social media .

The damage social media has done to the Labour party simply cannot be ignored

Disagree, twitter and Facebook are absolute cess pits and are full of bullshit from both sides of the divide.

Evo1883 · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
The older someone is the more likely they are to vote Tory.

The further into education someone goes the more likely they are to vote Labour.

Dress it up how you like, they are facts.

Kids and young adults then

With Much less responsibilities,Less money , less life experience etc etc

Ian1779 · May 1, 2021

Evo1883 said:
I think the difference is though the people that follow the tories on the whole aren't plastering their bullshit opinions all over social media .

Surely you aren’t being serious here?

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
I think Labour lost the working class in the last election because of Brexit.

Partly because of Corbyn, but mostly because of Brexit.

Actually I don't think that's why they lost the working class, I know it is. It's pretty indisputable.

Brexit was a huge issue for the working class and the Tories was obviously the choice for anyone who wanted Brexit.

Of course they are now being utterly shafted by leaving the EU, but that's a different conversation.

I agree that Brexit was a big factor in the 2019 election. For most people, myself included, Brexit is over now... we move on. It may not seem like that, if you are one of the minority who cannot let go, but I think it's true for most of people we are discussing.

So why are they continuing to lose votes in 2021? That's the question.

Evo1883 · May 1, 2021

Ian1779 said:
Surely you aren’t being serious here?

Ofcourse I am , social media on the whole is very much dominated by younger people .

Younger people mostly vote for Labour.

Labour supporters mostly spewing their opinions on social media ...pretty straightforward

Grendel · May 1, 2021

PVA said:
The older someone is the more likely they are to vote Tory.

The further into education someone goes the more likely they are to vote Labour.

Dress it up how you like, they are facts.

You are not really answering my question

Is 39 old?

Why given the fact age means increased likelihood of voting Tory is that? Also what the correlation between the two subjects?

More importantly does a better education make you more qualified to lead the country - if not it’s just an irrelevance to sneer at isn’t it?

mrtrench · May 1, 2021

Ian1779 said:
Labour needs to spilt. And then one of the 2 parts can merge with the Lib Dems.

Not going to happen any time soon. Neither side wants to lose a brand that has in the near recent past held government, especially when there are only two parties which could feasibly win.

PVA · May 1, 2021

mrtrench said:
I agree that Brexit was a big factor in the 2019 election. For most people, myself included, Brexit is over now... we move on. It may not seem like that, if you are one of the minority who cannot let go, but I think it's true for most of people we are discussing.

So why are they continuing to lose votes in 2021? That's the question.

Brexit is not over though is it. Far from it. Its an absolute cluster fuck that is destroying trade and businesses. But that's for the other thread.

It's over for the majority of Brexit voters who let's be honest didn't know what they were voting for. They think it's done. They don't care about what is happening now. But for anyone who does more than just read the Express its clear that Brexit is not over. But again, that's for the other thread.

As for why they are losing votes now, I'd say it's the vaccine bounce. That is way more important and impactful than anti wokery stuff.

Ian1779 · May 1, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Ofcourse I am , social media on the whole is very much dominated by younger people .

Younger people mostly vote for Labour.

Labour supporters mostly spewing their opinions on social media ...pretty straightforward

No - social media is split generally, with different age categories occupying different platforms. So while your younger voters are more likely to use Instagram for example, the older voters are far more concentrated on Facebook.

Same stuff happens on both platforms. Twitter is a bit of a microcosm of the both,and doesn’t really give you an overall picture of social media as a whole.

PVA · May 1, 2021

Grendel said:
You are not really answering my question

Is 39 old?

Why given the fact age means increased likelihood of voting Tory is that? Also what the correlation between the two subjects?

More importantly does a better education make you more qualified to lead the country - if not it’s just an irrelevance to sneer at isn’t it?

I'm not sure what your point is.

You said those two points are fallacies.

They're not.

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