Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Maybe. But it's a bit fucking rich coming from a guy that claimed taxpayers money to keep his fucking horses at his second home warm.

It’s also difficult due to the fact it highlights/admits the governments inaction and failures in certain areas has made the situation (which is global to be fair) worse

But ultimately the right message, is the right message and needs to be hammered home. It needs to be delivered in conjunction with announcement of assistance package though.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
What exactly is the mechanism which causes the same amount of gas from now to double by next spring .
Exactly what usage will change throughout the winter at that point?

I’m guessing as Germany/Europe weens itself of Russian gas we’re seeing increasing demand on a limited supply of gas elsewhere. At the moment Europe are filling their storage for winter not because of worries about price but because there’s a genuine risk/concern that if Russia turns off the taps the lights will go out.

We’re fortunate to have LNG terminals in this country so that risk is lessened for us but it does mean the prices are going through the roof because everyone is desperately buying up from an ever decreasing supply (due to Russian sanctions)

We’re understandably focussing on cost/prices, some people genuinely don’t know if they can get through winter, however, the even bigger concern for many is what happens if there’s not enough gas to go around during winter !

That’s my layman’s understanding anyway. I might be wrong.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I’m guessing as Germany/Europe weens itself of Russian gas we’re seeing increasing demand on a limited supply of gas elsewhere. At the moment Europe are filling their storage for winter not because of worries about price but because there’s a genuine risk/concern that if Russia turns off the taps the lights will go out.

We’re fortunate to have LNG terminals in this country so that risk is lessened for us but it does mean the prices are going through the roof because everyone is desperately buying up from an ever decreasing supply (due to Russian sanctions)

We’re understandably focussing on cost/prices, some people genuinely don’t know if they can get through winter, however, the even bigger concern for many is what happens if there’s not enough gas to go around during winter !

That’s my layman’s understanding anyway. I might be wrong.
I think you’re overplaying LNG, it’s a historically unreliable source yet still equates for about a fifth of our usage.

It’s unreliable for many reasons. The biggest producers are Iran, Russia and Qatar and we’re only on trading terms with one. We don’t have a lot of long term contracts for supply effecting security of supply. We’re far from the biggest users so are not seen as a preferred market effecting security. It takes 2 weeks to get here by ship which coupled with our lack of storage facilities for all gas products makes us vulnerable to running out of supplies, remember that because of the beast from the east and our lack of storage due to the government’s decision to allow the Rough storage depot (ironically now being reopened in a panic with huge cost to the taxpayer) close we were estimated to be less than a day of running out of gas at one point which drove wholesale prices up 8 fold. There’s also the small matter of availability. The EU is storing LNG as quickly as it can get it, it’s estimated that the EU’s imports of LNG has risen by almost 60% in recent months ahead of the winter so there’s questions as you point out of is there enough to go around.

We seriously need a mild winter.
 
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wingy

Well-Known Member
It's interesting to see the diplomatic effects playing out with Algeria, Iran etc..
Cyprus and Australia becoming players.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I think you’re overplaying LNG, it’s a historically unreliable source yet still equates for about a fifth of our usage.

It’s unreliable for many reasons. The biggest producers are Iran, Russia and Qatar and we’re only on trading terms with one. We don’t have a lot of long term contracts for supply effecting security of supply. We’re far from the biggest users so are not seen as a preferred market effecting security. It takes 2 weeks to get here by ship which coupled with our lack of storage facilities for all gas products makes us vulnerable to running out of supplies, remember that because of the beast from the east and our lack of storage due to the government’s decision to allow the Rough storage depot (ironically now being reopened in a panic with huge cost to the taxpayer) close we were estimated to be less than a day of running out of gas at one point which drove wholesale prices up 8 fold. There’s also the small matter of availability. The EU is storing LNG as quickly as it can get it, it’s estimated that the EU’s imports of LNG has risen by almost 60% in recent months ahead of the winter so there’s questions as you point out of is there enough to go around.

We seriously need a mild winter.

Yeah, EU is getting a majority of its LNG converted and piped from us I think, so it has to come through us to get there. They don’t have the terminals, hence the need to store. We don’t have the storage as you say but should be able to maintain supply.

Im not saying there no risk of us having the odd black out, we were close in London a few weeks ago and had to pay a ridiculous amount to Belgium to stop it from happening, my understanding is tge risk of sustained blackouts should be lessened due to LNG infrastructure (together with other energy generation) My point with Europe is if the taps get turned off by Russia, once stored gas is utilised they’d be in massive trouble as they don’t have the infrastructure to quickly replenish supplies in winter. That’s why there’s has already been some minor rationing in Germany who are obviously as massive energy user due to manufacturing over there

My wider point was relating to the fact that trying to manage/reduce demand and usage will be essential Europe wide inc us this winter…and as you say, pray for a mild…and windy one !

Ps think we rely on more gas for energy generation than other countries though, like France is majority nuclear, which is not good at the moment
 
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Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
Just as a side note, I am almost 100% sure someone involved at a certain Trust who won't get mentioned has also read this.

I was actually ticking off things which appeared in the second of the trilogy, with certain events which happened a while back.

Have fun reading if you are interested..

 
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Don't think Fergal Sharkey will be too chuffed with this bloke.
Got to say after hearing him on the news on Saturday what a great exponent he is for conservation and standards.


He's really got a bee in his bonnet about the amount of sewage we're pumping into our waterways.

That bevan is an absolute wanker.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
He's really got a bee in his bonnet about the amount of sewage we're pumping into our waterways.

That bevan is an absolute wanker.
Not just sewage. Run off from farming also. It’s a real issue, especially with chicken farming. When they empty the sheds they clean them out and spread it on the fields, that washes into streams and rivers. Chicken shit is really high in phosphates (hence why they put it on the fields) so when it washes into waterways it really promotes the growth of vegetation in the waterways which draws the oxygen out of the water which then starves the fish of oxygen and they die. Wildlife is being decimated in some areas because of it.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
View attachment 26028
Given the energy problems we face you could almost understand the cap being almost trebled in a year. If it weren't for the fact that the energy companies are posting record profits. If the price was such a problem at best profits would be static.

Considering the aim of the cap is supposed to stop profiteering (which totally negates the argument for it being privatised in the first place anyway) it seems to be failing spectacularly and the regulator is allowing the cap to be increased by far too much. Also does nothing to question why standing charges have increased by a similar amount when the price of the fuel has nothing to do with that.

It's also pretty galling that this problem has a lot to do with the energy companies themselves, having spent decades blocking attempts to move towards renewables. But instead of being punished for this, they're going to coin it in. Is it any wonder companies make such shitty decisions when they gain so much from them?

Fact is, this situation is showing that privatising energy hasn't given what is what supposed to in better service and cheaper prices and the regulator isn't fit for purpose and seems to favour protecting the companies ahead of the consumers.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Interesting discussions being had about delinking electricity and gas prices. EU looking at it and I’d imagine so are we.
Not sure what the planned alternative would be but I’m guessing electricity prices better linked to cost of its generation. This has got to happen.

Whether it makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things Im not sure, especially as I think we use more gas than most to generate our electricity, while say France, for example, is majority nuclear. However, it should bring electricity prices down, especially if the amount generated by renewables continues to increase
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Interesting discussions being had about delinking electricity and gas prices. EU looking at it and I’d imagine so are we.
Not sure what the planned alternative would be but I’m guessing electricity prices better linked to cost of its generation. This has got to happen.

Whether it makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things Im not sure, especially as I think we use more gas than most to generate our electricity, while say France, for example, is majority nuclear. However, it should bring electricity prices down, especially if the amount generated by renewables continues to increase
Well it's been a ridiculous method for me regards equivalence .
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Yeah...

I'm sure Macron's shitting himself at the prospect of the man who was a major part of Britain's Brexit negotiating team being involved.

There's only so many times you can pull someone's pants down before it gets a bit boring.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Well it's been a ridiculous method for me regards equivalence .

Agreed. Especially as renewables picked up significantly in recent years. I can’t believe it’s taken so long for them to start looking at it

Ps I didn’t even know it’s how electricity prices were calculated until this recent energy shitstorm. I just assumed it would’ve been calculated according to cost of generation/supply/availability
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Especially as renewables picked up significantly in recent years. I can’t believe it’s taken so long for them to start looking at it

Ps I didn’t even know it’s how electricity prices were calculated until this recent energy shitstorm. I just assumed it would’ve been calculated according to cost of generation/supply/availability

The whole “market” seems nuts once you look into it. The benefits of having a product everyone needs but no one gives a shit about until it’s goes very wrong.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member

Sick Boy

Super Moderator

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
He's an absolute moron who's been wrong about almost everything.
Truss is going to assemble a cabinet so appalling you wouldn't think it possible.
It almost unbelievable to think if a weeks time we'll be sitting here thinking Boris was an intellectual heavyweight and a shrewd political player.

You keep on thinking it can't get worse...

And yet there will still be people who think Truss is a better bet than Starmer. And those people are morons.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
Interesting discussions being had about delinking electricity and gas prices. EU looking at it and I’d imagine so are we.
Not sure what the planned alternative would be but I’m guessing electricity prices better linked to cost of its generation. This has got to happen.

Whether it makes a huge difference in the grand scheme of things Im not sure, especially as I think we use more gas than most to generate our electricity, while say France, for example, is majority nuclear. However, it should bring electricity prices down, especially if the amount generated by renewables continues to increase

We should put a generator above Parliament for all the hot air it produces.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
If you mean the M45, maybe, but we're talking niche aren't we, and playing with technicalities where we both know she's just spouting whatever drivel people want to hear.

Learned from the master, but doesn't have the charisma!
On the M6 it would be pointless until you get to Cumbria. M25, pointless exercise, M1, pointless exercise etc etc. struggling to think of a motorway other than the M45 where it would work other than in small stretches.
 

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