Do you want to discuss boring politics? (25 Viewers)

[Philosoraptor]

I also got Yes leaflets through my door telling me how I, an Englishman, was by default less socially conscious than Scots, along with other lies about Holyrood funding. Two can play this particular game and we can always of course compare the centralisation at Westminster with the central belt bias of the SNP.

Just stop trying to divide people that are not each others’ enemies

OH, I agree with central belt bias with the money being spent there, but this is exactly the same as the City Centre first scheme currently being run in English councils and Combined Authorities.

WMCA to provide £31m to help Coventry get ready for UK City of Culture

WMCA to provide £31m to help Coventry get ready for UK City of Culture

www.wmca.org.uk

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's a bit more nuanced than that. The EU referendum changed the very nature of Scotland against its will. This is why the argument is there for the referendum. Otherwise, they simply couldn't call for an election every 4 years or so.

They have a good argument.

COVID has seen SNP politicians arguing for 4 nation policies and pan UK consensus on vaccination and quarantine measures. They have argued for the union without realising

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

OH, I agree with central belt bias with the money being spent there, but this is exactly the same as the City Centre first scheme currently being run in English councils and Combined Authorities.

Not just that, but centralising all the police means you have Grampian police using the same cars and equipment as they do in Glasgow to lesser effect. If you call the police from Aberdeen you’ll get redirected to a call centre in Govan etc etc.

At some point we need to accept that you don’t always get what you want and the answer is not to make every street or house an independent nation.

 

[PVA]

This is a very good piece. Pretty much sums up my views.

In a nutshell: Tories have gone populist to win the Red Wall/working class. We just have to wait for them to fail on 'levelling up', which they will.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Not just that, but centralising all the police means you have Grampian police using the same cars and equipment as they do in Glasgow to lesser effect. If you call the police from Aberdeen you’ll get redirected to a call centre in Govan etc etc.

At some point we need to accept that you don’t always get what you want and the answer is not to make every street or house an independent nation.

Oh, I fully agree. The damage Combined Authorities and local councils are doing to Public Services to save money is shockingly bad.

Let's not forget though. Whatever party is in power, they have all agreed to do this without putting it to the people in a referendum first. DemSoc did say this needed a referendum and good old Ann Lucas said it was populist.

One of the worst council leaders Coventry has ever had.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Mark Drakeford talking a lot of common sense on the union this morning. Focus on just running the country properly rather than gimmicks with planting flags everywhere.

Do keep asking Nicola where she got the vaccines from though

 

[Philosoraptor]

Right, these footie stats aren't going to do themselves. Got two games left. Back later.

 

[Evo1883]

I still think there are more unionists in Scotland and they would win a referendum .

If unionists win Westminster should dissolve Holyrood and rule from Westminster..can't have this shite every couple years it's frankly ridiculous the idea that Scotland are oppressed

It's English hatred that fuels sturgeon and her SNP cronies
Irish influence In Scotland doesn't help matters .

It's all nonsense

 

[Ian1779]

I was expecting this reply,Lefties that only see their side of the argument.
Get your heads out of the sand it’s like a child sticking their fingers in their ears going nananana.....
Labour are heading into oblivion but you cannot see it.

Happy to read the words of some working class people that have become disillusioned with Labour, the party needs to hear more of it.

But these are the ramblings of a Lord no less, whose ability to connect with the working class was demonstrated in the erosion of the Labour vote in his constituency, before jumping out when he knew he was destined to lose. The guy is a prick.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

View attachment 20014

Put a blue background on that and a picture of JRM...or Johnson...or Gove...or IDS...or Patel and it's just as, if not more, accurate.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Chances of Boris allowing a referendum - 0

But if Scotland go independent the rest of the UK is pretty much going to be Tory in perpetuity.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

This is a very good piece. Pretty much sums up my views.

Good post, an insightful piece, and I agree PVA: not until the Labour relic has truly started crumbling into dust can the Tories be truly opposed. The question is, what replaces Labour, as a main party of opposition? I can't see it being anything than an instable coalition of the idealistic and the dispossessed.

There's no question that Boris has the neolibs riled!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did anybody actually care a referendum was called though ? As everybody expected a remain win .

This is the break up of the union , its our constitution , 400 years .

Not some trading bloc agreement

Has to be concrete for Westminster to allow it to happen, and with less votes than pro independence parties , why would Westminster allow it...they wont

It's Boris. He does whatever he thinks will be most popular and beneficial for him. Fuck the consequences.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How many foodbanks qualifies as an achievement then?

You should look upwards sometimes,

But really, just how many foodbanks are good enough?

None, because they aren't needed. If you're having to have loads because people can't even afford to feed themselves that isn't a good thing - it's a monumental failure

 

[Deleted member 4439]

None, because they aren't needed. If you're having to have loads because people can't even afford to feed themselves that isn't a good thing - it's a monumental failure

boy oh boy.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

boy oh boy.

So you're saying it would be more of an achievement to have loads of foodbanks because people can't afford food than none because people can?

By the same sort of thinking having loads of people on employment benefit is better than fewer.

If you can't see that point then there is no helping you.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

And so it goes on. Rather than acknowledge the failings of a party, blame those failings on the charisma of just one man in power.

Point missed.

People have been saying how the Labour party are treating working class people like scum. When it's been proven the fanboy Boris has put it into print his opinion of the working man is scum. As does his father. And JRm - remember what he said about the Grenfell victims and how he'd have been fine bacuase he was more clever and would've left the building, when the only reason many didn't was because they followed the advice they were given. And he's rather scathing of people not doing what the authorities tell them.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

How many foodbanks qualifies as an achievement then?

""

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Point missed.

People have been saying how the Labour party are treating working class people like scum. When it's been proven the fanboy Boris has put it into print his opinion of the working man is scum. As does his father. And JRm - remember what he said about the Grenfell victims and how he'd have been fine bacuase he was more clever and would've left the building, when the only reason many didn't was because they followed the advice they were given. And he's rather scathing of people not doing what the authorities tell them.

Point missed. Boris is a old bullshitting etonian. Admittedly, probably half the cabinet are, but Boris is one person. The perception is that there is a generation of Labour activists and MPs who have been sending out a wrong message. In the plural.

You and PVA are very, very hard work.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Fucking crackpots. This sort of shite should never see the light of day.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Imagine trusting the railings more than the BBC.

 

[PVA]

Point missed. Boris is a old bullshitting etonian. Admittedly, probably half the cabinet are, but Boris is one person. The perception is that there is a generation of Labour activists and MPs who have been sending out a wrong message. In the plural.

You and PVA are very, very hard work.

You posted a made up meme/poster that says labour hate the working class.

Whereas there is actual evidence, in black and white, where members of the current government including the PM himself, Raab, Truss etc let us know exactly what they think of the working class.

The mental gymnastics people go through to defend the tories is fucking incredible.

And you still haven't grasped the food bank issue I see.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

PVA, I understand your passion. But every single time you fail to understand what is being said (I don't think that's wilful) and which most often flies over your head like a flying thing. I think I said once before that you are simply too much like hard work and so I would no longer respond. I don't think it fair on you either. So I wish you well and farewell.

(But you might want to stop misgendering me, that would be nice )

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Point missed. Boris is a old bullshitting etonian. Admittedly, probably half the cabinet are, but Boris is one person. The perception is that there is a generation of Labour activists and MPs who have been sending out a wrong message. In the plural.

You and PVA are very, very hard work.

Exactly. Probably half the cabinet (or more). And that's not including the mental ones we don't here much about. So, also very much in the plural.

So if the opinion is that both the two main parties think you're scum but one it's fine because they think they're better than you by birthright/class and so it's OK to vote for them. If that's your take on it then it's you that thinks the British working man is an idiot.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Exactly. Probably half the cabinet (or more). And that's not including the mental ones we don't here much about. So, also very much in the plural.

So if the opinion is that both the two main parties think you're scum but one it's fine because they think they're better than you by birthright/class and so it's OK to vote for them. If that's your take on it then it's you that thinks the British working man is an idiot.

Yes, it's fine that the Tories think you're scum - that's their natural position, but they know how to run an economy and a country. I expected better of Labour, but I take your point, I should perhaps lower my expectations.

 

[PVA]

Exactly. Probably half the cabinet (or more). And that's not including the mental ones we don't here much about. So, also very much in the plural.

So if the opinion is that both the two main parties think you're scum but one it's fine because they think they're better than you by birthright/class and so it's OK to vote for them. If that's your take on it then it's you that thinks the British working man is an idiot.

He consistently says the working class are thick. He's the only one that says it. Repeatedly... And then complains that people call the working class thick.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes, it's fine that the Tories think you're scum - that's their natural position, but they know how to run an economy and a country. I expected better of Labour, but I take your point, I should perhaps lower my expectations.

No statistical evidence Tories know how to run an economy any better. it's all just a perception that's not based on actual evidence. For most it's a memory of 50 years ago of a party that is much, much different know.

According to you, can't vote Labour now because they ignore the working man. Couldn't vote for them then because they're economically illiterate. Rock, meet hard place.

So the Tories think you're scum and that's expected of them - fine. So what's the justification for working class poeple to vote for them given that's their ingrained opinion and consistently vote against anything that would be of benefit to them when in government? Unless you think the British working class are stupid, cap-doffing idiots.

If you worked with someone who thought you were a stupid twat and did everything to make your life a misery why would you vote for them as employee of the month?

 

[PVA]

I think it's because when the Tories call the working class uneducated proles, they do it in a posh accent.

There seems to be some inherent belief in this country that we should be ruled by a posh toff with a plum in their mouth. That it's just the way it is and the way it should be.

 

[David O'Day]

Happy to read the words of some working class people that have become disillusioned with Labour, the party needs to hear more of it.

But these are the ramblings of a Lord no less, whose ability to connect with the working class was demonstrated in the erosion of the Labour vote in his constituency, before jumping out when he knew he was destined to lose. The guy is a prick.

Why debate with that crackpot

 

[PVA]

Bloody hell. Another one to go with the bloke yesterday who says he's had enough of Labour because there were no foodbanks under them, but 9 under the tories. This guy blames Labour for no hospitals being built.

What fucking chance do Labour, or anyone, have when people have views like this

 

[Evo1883]

View attachment 20021

Fucking crackpots. This sort of shite should never see the light of day.

I live near here and have seen it a few times..what is it ?

 

[Skybluefaz]

I live near here and have seen it a few times..what is it ?

I couldn't resist taking a look. Alternative news. Pretty predictable stuff, vaccine skepticism etc.

 

[skybluetony176]

Bloody hell. Another one to go with the bloke yesterday who says he's had enough of Labour because there were no foodbanks under them, but 9 under the tories. This guy blames Labour for no hospitals being built.

What fucking chance do Labour, or anyone, have when people have views like this

This is of the back of a Facebook smear campaign against the Labour candidate. Long story short the Labour candidate was part of the local healthcare management that had to decide what services were cut under austerity forced upon them by the Conservatives. In this post truth world Facebook adds were saying that the Labour candidate cut services not services cut after funding cut by the Conservative government. In this post truth world it gained traction, people heard what they wanted to hear and voted Tory. Not sure it changed the overall outcome though.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Talking about crackpots, the mushrooms are revolting.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, it's fine that the Tories think you're scum - that's their natural position, but they know how to run an economy and a country. I expected better of Labour, but I take your point, I should perhaps lower my expectations.

Hang on a minute I thought it was because the Tories 'seem to like the working man' and not actually to do with anything substantive?