Do you want to discuss boring politics? (52 Viewers)

[wingy]

I agree on this issue. I think the current generation of EV's will be looked at in the same vein as diesels - lauded as an environmental gamechanger then later looked on as the devil after everyone's bought one. The process for getting lithium is very damaging environmentally and the amount of used batteries that will be need to be dumped will be shocking. Can see those 'bought a diesel? You could get compensation" ads coming back in a few years for EV's.

I think EV's (and possibly hydrogen) are the future, but they need to move on massively from where they are now.

We'll be alright jettisoning the junk into by then Japs and California are ahead of the game here IMO!!

 

---

[Deleted member 5849]

I am W&L but we've been Labour in 20 of past 27 years and if Matt Western won last time in spite of a strong Conservative win, then I'd have thought him safe this time.

Monster Raving Loony it is for me now

Generally it's very much a swing seat though - Tory leaning if anything.

Anthony Eden's old seat!

As a small aside, in normal times it would have been interesting how holding the elections when students had gone home would have affected the result

 

[rob9872]

Generally it's very much a swing seat though - Tory leaning if anything.

Anthony Eden's old seat!

As a small aside, in normal times it would have been interesting how holding the elections when students had gone home would have affected the result

We had Cuddly Duddly for years too when I was young, but I think the demographic of the towns has changed massively over the last generation.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

What's the quoted electric range to get it down to 5%BIK?

My last motor was in the 12% bracket (39 miles).

Now I have an electric car which is basically free, which it needs to be to make up for the irritation of running it.

I purchased a EV through my company last summer & I generally love it.

Whats your "irritation of running it" out of interest?

 

[skybluetony176]

The Mail trying to gode the Russian ambassador into comments over Farage and the referendum party, so they can come up with some form of headline that paints reform in a bad light.

While obviously staying tight lipped over massive corruption within the Tory party or Sunaks tax affairs or the collapse of the nhs or the state of the roads, etc etc etc.

There’s a pattern forming here. Every one is goading. NATO and the EU goaded Russia into invading Ukraine, the Mail goaded Russia into making a specific statement. Problem for Farage is that it was a very easy and tangible statement to make. He helped deliver Brexit something that delighted the Kremlin, he parrots without coercion Kremlin propaganda as if it’s fact, he willingly goes on Russia Today to help legitimise the Russian propaganda he parrots.

The only issue Farage has with the Mail is that he stopped becoming a useful idiot and started becoming a threat to the Tory party. You’re right in what the Mail stays quiet on but you’re describing nothing that Labour has been putting up with for decades. Just take the Rayner case. Spent weeks promoting another police investigation into her tax affairs regarding the sale of her house but kept quiet about a handful of Tories who not only profited from house sales and not paying windfall tax they also bought the houses through their expenses using taxpayer money. Not once did Rayner flounce of threatening legal action. It’s the game she chose to get into, she understands that.

Farage understands that too. The threat of legal action is to cast a perception of innocence. And like I say he has history, twice in this campaign alone. First the vetting company that isn’t a vetting company and now this. They’ll both come to nothing and with good reason.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Mail trying to gode the Russian ambassador into comments over Farage and the referendum party, so they can come up with some form of headline that paints reform in a bad light.

While obviously staying tight lipped over massive corruption within the Tory party or Sunaks tax affairs or the collapse of the nhs or the state of the roads, etc etc etc.

Thanks for bothering to answer
It’s a fact though is it not that Farage has been visible in Russian media and has been controversial in his ‘support’ of putin? Being a great leader of his people?

 

[shmmeee]

A lot can change in 5 years - and needs to.
Battery technology, charging infrastructure, generating capacity.
EVs are expensive to buy and expensive to run in terms of insurance, the cost of using public charging points and their incredible depreciation.
Whole life emissions and other environmental damage aren’t great. This rush for ev feels a bit like Gordon Brown’s endorsement of diesel.
Starmer’s mates in Europe have an EV mandate by 2035, the same as current government.
People generally don’t want them, sales are being maintained by companies and company car drivers. Take up in Europe is also slowing.

I think you’ve got an outdated view TBH.

Electric cars depreciate less than petrol for a start: Electric car depreciation: do they hold their value?

There’s a small insurance premium but that’s outweighed by fuel and maintenance costs. Why is electric car insurance so expensive? EV vs ICE cost analysis | Auto Express

Everyone I know who drives electric loves it TBH.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Tbf they're all snake oil salesmen to a large degree.
Farage appeals to a growing number of people who feel alienated by the main political parties, and feel that their concerns are not being heard.

I think the Tory's in the main are shit scared of him. If he gets enough votes he could see the conservatives decimated at the ballot box, Hence the desperate attempt by the Tory press to discredit him.

It's strange how so many people can't or won't see it for what it is.

Surely it’s both and …

 

[fatso]

There’s a pattern forming here. Every one is goading. NATO and the EU goaded Russia into invading Ukraine, the Mail goaded Russia into making a specific statement. Problem for Farage is that it was a very easy and tangible statement to make. He helped deliver Brexit something that delighted the Kremlin, he parrots without coercion Kremlin propaganda as if it’s fact, he willingly goes on Russia Today to help legitimise the Russian propaganda he parrots.

The only issue Farage has with the Mail is that he stopped becoming a useful idiot and started becoming a threat to the Tory party. You’re right in what the Mail stays quiet on but you’re describing nothing that Labour has been putting up with for decades. Just take the Rayner case. Spent weeks promoting another police investigation into her tax affairs regarding the sale of her house but kept quiet about a handful of Tories who not only profited from house sales and not paying windfall tax they also bought the houses through their expenses using taxpayer money. Not once did Rayner flounce of threatening legal action. It’s the game she chose to get into, she understands that.

Farage understands that too. The threat of legal action is to cast a perception of innocence. And like I say he has history, twice in this campaign alone. First the vetting company that isn’t a vetting company and now this. They’ll both come to nothing and with good reason.

I'm in agreement with you over the Mail just attacking whoever poses the biggest threat to the Tory's on any particular day.

But regarding Farage's much pubicised recent comments regarding Ukraine, my question is what has he said that's untrue?
We know that the USA has deliberately flouted neutrality agreements and has actively sought to get Ukraine into NATO
We know they put labs and military hardware Into a previously agreed neutral buffer zone.

Back in 1962 when Nikita Khrushchev did EXACTLY the same thing in Cuba it very nearly resulted in WW3, now 52 years later the USA has made the very same mistake.

​

 

[fatso]

Thanks for bothering to answer
It’s a fact though is it not that Farage has been visible in Russian media and has been controversial in his ‘support’ of putin? Being a great leader of his people?

Well I'd say that the Russian economy is now booming, and support for Putin is growing in Russia. (Largely due to the war effort of course) he's managed to galvanise the people and as a result the forcast for the Russian economic growth has surged.
So yes he's seen as doing well.

What people don't grasp is that the problems for Putin will only come when the war ends.
That's when the military spending stops and production and hence output hence growth rapidly declines, and jobs are shed.
That could trigger a recession or even a depression, that's when Putin is vulnerable.

That's why he's in no hurry to stop the war.

What the west should be doing is seeking a way to end the war that gives Putin a way to stop Russia slipping into financial collapse while preserving as much of Ukraine's sovereignty as possible.

While we continue to cast Russia as a permanent enemy we will always live under the threat of WW3, when in fact Russia has the potential to be Europe's biggest export market.

Make trade. Not war.

Farage (for all his faults) seems to be the only politician that understands that.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm in agreement with you over the Mail just attacking whoever poses the biggest threat to the Tory's on any particular day.

But regarding Farage's much pubicised recent comments regarding Ukraine, my question is what has he said that's untrue?
We know that the USA has deliberately flouted neutrality agreements and has actively sought to get Ukraine into NATO
We know they put labs and military hardware Into a previously agreed neutral buffer zone.

Back in 1962 when Nikita Khrushchev did EXACTLY the same thing in Cuba it very nearly resulted in WW3, now 52 years later the USA has made the very same mistake.

​

We don’t know any of those things, unless you believe Putin. In which case the accusation of being a Russian asset are just strengthened. The Lab thing especially has been debunked so often and so completely that it’s ridiculous to parrot it. It’s Putins version of WMD in Iraq. It was bullshit when our governments claimed it in Iraq and it’s BS now. Putin couldn’t even find a hypothetical essay to copy and paste to pass off as fact like the infamous dressed up dossier that Labour presented. He wrote and published his own hypothetical essay to use as fact. Farage continually parrots the Kremlin line and has done for decades. The real question is why has he made it so easy to be labelled a Russian asset.

 

[PVA]

What the west should be doing is seeking a way to end the war that gives Putin a way to stop Russia slipping into financial collapse while preserving as much of Ukraine's sovereignty as possible.

While we continue to cast Russia as a permanent enemy we will always live under the threat of WW3, when in fact Russia has the potential to be Europe's biggest export market.

Make trade. Not war.

Incredible. You know who started the war right? So we should reward Russia by kowtowing to them.

 

[fatso]

We don’t know any of those things, unless you believe Putin. In which case the accusation of being a Russian asset are just strengthened. The Lab thing especially has been debunked so often and so completely that it’s ridiculous to parrot it. It’s Putins version of WMD in Iraq. It was bullshit when our governments claimed it in Iraq and it’s BS now. Putin couldn’t even find a hypothetical essay to copy and paste to pass off as fact like the infamous dressed up dossier that Labour presented. He wrote and published his own hypothetical essay to use as fact. Farage continually parrots the Kremlin line and has done for decades. The real question is why has he made it so easy to be labelled a Russian asset.

He's not a Russian asset, that's just lazy geornalistic nonsence.
I think he's a man who sees that sooner or later we need do make trade with Russia rather than war.

Unfortunately the USA needs enemies for its economy to flurish and for its wealthiest to prosper, and Russia has suited that purpose since ww2 ended.

The sooner we end the war in Ukraine and settle differences and start trading the better.

It's crazy that in 2024 we have food banks and child poverty and a broken health system, while freely spending billions on weapons pointed at an enemy that also struggles to feed its children.

We need to start talking with Russia to find common ground.
The fucking insanity comes when any one tries to do this they get castigated in the press and the public believes it!!!

 

[fatso]

Incredible. You know who started the war right? So we should reward Russia by kowtowing to them.

If you honestly believe that, then there's no arguing with you.

 

[skybluetony176]

Battery powered electric cars are a stop gap waiting for hydrogen electric cars to come on line. It’s already happening. Toyota has a couple of hydrogen models for instance available in the UK. Problem in the UK is there’s hardly anywhere to fill up. We’re at the crossroads again as we were in the 80’s with the introduction of unleaded petrol. You could buy the cars but struggled to get the fuel.

We’re also strategically well placed for green hydrogen production being an island. Use offshore wind to reverse osmosis sea water into fresh water then split it into hydrogen and oxygen. China recons its cracked it without reverse osmosis. Should be part of Great British Energy. Set up a load of green hydrogen plants in failing costal towns and cities as part of levelling up as a bonus, make green hydrogen readily available at the pump and promote hydrogen car sales.

You can even convert petrol engines to run on hydrogen so people with classic cars for example can continue to use them without converting to battery electric keeping the originality of a combustion engine.

 

[skybluetony176]

He's not a Russian asset, that's just lazy geornalistic nonsence.
I think he's a man who sees that sooner or later we need do make trade with Russia rather than war.

Unfortunately the USA needs enemies for its economy to flurish and for its wealthiest to prosper, and Russia has suited that purpose since ww2 ended.

The sooner we end the war in Ukraine and settle differences and start trading the better.

It's crazy that in 2024 we have food banks and child poverty and a broken health system, while freely spending billions on weapons pointed at an enemy that also struggles to feed its children.

We need to start talking with Russia to find common ground.
The fucking insanity comes when any one tries to do this they get castigated in the press and the public believes it!!!

Making trade with Russia so he wouldn’t go to war was a long term strategy of the EU, it failed. We tried for decades to trade Russia into becoming a trusted ally, he repaid us by committing acts of terror on UK soil and invade Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine. All we did was enrich him and his henchmen and fund his military. Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that has earned the right to be called a Russian asset. Anyone who thinks that failed policy will work if we just try it again is an idiot and a useful idiot to Putin.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm in agreement with you over the Mail just attacking whoever poses the biggest threat to the Tory's on any particular day.

But regarding Farage's much pubicised recent comments regarding Ukraine, my question is what has he said that's untrue?
We know that the USA has deliberately flouted neutrality agreements and has actively sought to get Ukraine into NATO
We know they put labs and military hardware Into a previously agreed neutral buffer zone.

Back in 1962 when Nikita Khrushchev did EXACTLY the same thing in Cuba it very nearly resulted in WW3, now 52 years later the USA has made the very same mistake.

​

He's not a Russian asset, that's just lazy geornalistic nonsence.
I think he's a man who sees that sooner or later we need do make trade with Russia rather than war.

Unfortunately the USA needs enemies for its economy to flurish and for its wealthiest to prosper, and Russia has suited that purpose since ww2 ended.

The sooner we end the war in Ukraine and settle differences and start trading the better.

It's crazy that in 2024 we have food banks and child poverty and a broken health system, while freely spending billions on weapons pointed at an enemy that also struggles to feed its children.

We need to start talking with Russia to find common ground.
The fucking insanity comes when any one tries to do this they get castigated in the press and the public believes it!!!

This is hugely naive man.

 

[PVA]

If you honestly believe that, then there's no arguing with you.

Yes I do believe that the side that massed a huge invasion force on the border, then crossed the border with said invasion force, started the war. Crazy I know.

Anyway, there's already a thread dedicated to Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories so let's leave it there.

 

[fatso]

Yes I do believe that the side that massed a huge invasion force on the border, then crossed the border with said invasion force, started the war. Crazy I know

What's truly crazy is you failed to answer the question why? Or even made any attempt to understand the situation.
Like what provoked it, what does Putin have to gain? Why would he risk international sanctions for no reward? Why now after years of peace? Etc etc etc.

To you it's simple, Putin is a naughty boy.

Unfortunately it's impossible to debate with such naive intransigence.

 

[PVA]

Fucking hell

You're right, Putin is a real stand up guy.

Let's leave it there.

 

[skybluetony176]

What's truly crazy is you failed to answer the question why? Or even made any attempt to understand the situation.
Like what provoked it, what does Putin have to gain? Why would he risk international sanctions for no reward? Why now after years of peace? Etc etc etc.

To you it's simple, Putin is a naughty boy.

Unfortunately it's impossible to debate with such naive intransigence.

Putin is an imperialist, pure and simple. He sees the expansion of Russia as his duty. He’s never actually hidden this, we just turned a blind eye to it thinking we could trade him into a trusted ally. If you want to debate something the starting point is based in fact not the fantasy Farage and you it seems are inducted into.

 

[fatso]

This is hugely naive man.

Trust me it will happen, in one of 2 ways.

1, either the west succeeds I'd defeating Russia by military or economic means.

2, we fail in the first methods so we make peace and eventually open trade negotiations and seek the rebuilding of Ukrain as a neutral zone (as it was previously)

This will then free up USA assets to concentrate on hostilities with China, which it now considers its no1 threat.

Wait and see.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Battery powered electric cars are a stop gap waiting for hydrogen electric cars to come on line. It’s already happening. Toyota has a couple of hydrogen models for instance available in the UK. Problem in the UK is there’s hardly anywhere to fill up. We’re at the crossroads again as we were in the 80’s with the introduction of unleaded petrol. You could buy the cars but struggled to get the fuel.

We’re also strategically well placed for green hydrogen production being an island. Use offshore wind to reverse osmosis sea water into fresh water then split it into hydrogen and oxygen. China recons its cracked it without reverse osmosis. Should be part of Great British Energy. Set up a load of green hydrogen plants in failing costal towns and cities as part of levelling up as a bonus, make green hydrogen readily available at the pump and promote hydrogen car sales.

You can even convert petrol engines to run on hydrogen so people with classic cars for example can continue to use them without converting to battery electric keeping the originality of a combustion engine.

You are not going to get technological investment like that with the Labour and Tory laissez faire approach to this kind of thing.

 

[shmmeee]

Battery powered electric cars are a stop gap waiting for hydrogen electric cars to come on line. It’s already happening. Toyota has a couple of hydrogen models for instance available in the UK. Problem in the UK is there’s hardly anywhere to fill up. We’re at the crossroads again as we were in the 80’s with the introduction of unleaded petrol. You could buy the cars but struggled to get the fuel.

We’re also strategically well placed for green hydrogen production being an island. Use offshore wind to reverse osmosis sea water into fresh water then split it into hydrogen and oxygen. China recons its cracked it without reverse osmosis. Should be part of Great British Energy. Set up a load of green hydrogen plants in failing costal towns and cities as part of levelling up as a bonus, make green hydrogen readily available at the pump and promote hydrogen car sales.

You can even convert petrol engines to run on hydrogen so people with classic cars for example can continue to use them without converting to battery electric keeping the originality of a combustion engine.

Hydrogen isn’t going to happen. It’s not anything like as easy to transport safely as electricity and is mostly cope by manufacturers that didn’t want electric initially like Toyota, but even Toyota have pivoted to solid state batteries these days.

 

[fatso]

Putin is an imperialist, pure and simple. He sees the expansion of Russia as his duty. He’s never actually hidden this, we just turned a blind eye to it thinking we could trade him into a trusted ally. If you want to debate something the starting point is based in fact not the fantasy Farage and you it seems are inducted into.

Russian expansion is a myth, Putin could of taken Ukraine at any time since he came to power. He already has the largest country on the planet what does he want with Ukraine? What he wants and has stated is the return of the neutral zone and no NATO encroachment onto Russian borders.

He's actually offered terms at least twice now stating this. But every time Ukraine (actually the USA) refuses the terms get harsher.

 

[skybluetony176]

You are not going to get technological investment like that with the Labour and Tory laissez faire approach to this kind of thing.

Sadly I think you’re correct. Both have proven to be economically illiterate by rowing backwards on green policy when we should be leading light in the western world. We’ve got everything we need except the will to do it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Hydrogen isn’t going to happen. It’s not anything like as easy to transport safely as electricity and is mostly cope by manufacturers that didn’t want electric initially like Toyota, but even Toyota have pivoted to solid state batteries these days.

The technology is now there, we’re already using it which is why hydrogen is available at a limited number of pumps and hydrogen cars are available in the open market. You can walk into any Toyota dealer today and order a hydrogen powered car. I think it actually is already safer than lithium batteries. Which are prone to spontaneous combustion with very little failure of chargers, cooling systems or mechanical failure and impossible to extinguish due to their chemical makeup, they basically only go out once their raw materials are exhausted.

 

[clint van damme]

He's not a Russian asset, that's just lazy geornalistic nonsence.
I think he's a man who sees that sooner or later we need do make trade with Russia rather than war.

Unfortunately the USA needs enemies for its economy to flurish and for its wealthiest to prosper, and Russia has suited that purpose since ww2 ended.

The sooner we end the war in Ukraine and settle differences and start trading the better.

It's crazy that in 2024 we have food banks and child poverty and a broken health system, while freely spending billions on weapons pointed at an enemy that also struggles to feed its children.

We need to start talking with Russia to find common ground.
The fucking insanity comes when any one tries to do this they get castigated in the press and the public believes it!!!

There's plenty of evidence pointing to him being a Russian asset so its not lazy at all.
A lot of it circumstantial so it may not be true but its certainly a feasible theory.
Russia stole the Podesta e mails.
Someone got them to Assange.
Farage visited Assange when he was holed up in the Ecudorian embassy, (he cant remember why he visited!)
Roger Stone spoke about 'our man in London'.
Farage had dinner in London with Stone and Bannon.

That's just the outline.

 

[skybluetony176]

Russian expansion is a myth, Putin could of taken Ukraine at any time since he came to power. He already has the largest country on the planet what does he want with Ukraine? What he wants and has stated is the return of the neutral zone and no NATO encroachment onto Russian borders.

He's actually offered terms at least twice now stating this. But every time Ukraine (actually the USA) refuses the terms get harsher.

Russian expansion is happening right in front of your own eyes. Putin obviously couldn’t take Ukraine anytime he wanted, again by the evidence of your own eyes. The reason he didn’t is because he had a puppet government in Ukraine, see Belarus again for evidence of your own eyes. He also has a roadmap that he’s rolled out in Georgia and Moldova, flood the countries with Russian speakers then invade under the guise of protecting Russia speaking and therefore “Russians”.

Russia has always had NATO countries on its borders, it’s a nonsense excuse and straight out of the Putin playbook. Ironically his invasion is directly responsible for the expansion of NATO with Sweden and Finland and now more Eastern Europe countries looking to join the club.

He’s offered nothing but a way out for himself with him saving some face at home.

Do you know that the word gullible doesn’t appear in the dictionary?

 

[fatso]

Russian expansion is happening right in front of your own eyes. Putin obviously couldn’t take Ukraine anytime he wanted, again by the evidence of your own eyes. The reason he didn’t is because he had a puppet government in Ukraine, see Belarus again for evidence of your own eyes. He also has a roadmap that he’s rolled out in Georgia and Moldova, flood the countries with Russian speakers then invade under the guise of protecting Russia speaking and therefore “Russians”.

Russia has always had NATO countries on its borders, it’s a nonsense excuse and straight out of the Putin playbook. Ironically his invasion is directly responsible for the expansion of NATO with Sweden and Finland and now more Eastern Europe countries looking to join the club.

He’s offered nothing but a way out for himself with him saving some face at home.

Do you know that the word gullible doesn’t appear in the dictionary?

You do realise that the eastern side of Ukraine is home to people who consider themselves ethnic Russians don't you?
Those people speak Russian and have always been Russian. Please tell me you understand that at the very least.

For them the thought of being part of a nato governed country is unacceptable, and they would consider it a desertion of duty if Putin was to abandon them.

This war ends in only one of 2 ways.

Either Trump wins the election and stops the arms flow to Ukraine and they accept Russias terms for peace which will mean the east is returned to Russia and the rest becomes a neutral zone once again with no chance of joining NATO.

Or Biden wins the election and continues to fight Russia to the last Ukranian (which will probably be after the next winter) then Ukraine will be forced to accept the terms for peace which will mean the east is returned to Russia ant the rest becomes a neutral zone once again with no chance of joining NATO.

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE. UKRAINE AINT WINNING THIS WAR.

 

[PVA]

On the subject of Farage and Russia, one of his nutter candidates is covering himself in glory (in Salisbury of all places!)...


Salisbury's Reform UK candidate booed for telling crowd Putin 'seemed very good'

THE man standing for Reform UK in Salisbury has come under fire after he said Vladimir Putin "seemed very good".

 

[MalcSB]

I think you’ve got an outdated view TBH.

Electric cars depreciate less than petrol for a start: Electric car depreciation: do they hold their value?

There’s a small insurance premium but that’s outweighed by fuel and maintenance costs. Why is electric car insurance so expensive? EV vs ICE cost analysis | Auto Express

Everyone I know who drives electric loves it TBH.

I think you have used an outdated article in relation to ev depreciation, it’s over 3 years old.

Fuelling price depends on whether you can refuel exclusively at home. There are articles other than this one that say the same Why it can now cost more to fill an electric car than a petrol one

Electric car public charging costs | RAC Charge Watch | RAC Drive

Charge Watch is the RAC's initiative that monitors the average cost of charging an electric car so that you get a fair price.

www.rac.co.uk

Quoted ev maintenance costs all omit one little thing - replacement of the battery which is many thousands of pounds and is, I would suggest, almost as much beyond the means of the ordinary working man as sending a child to private school.

Sales to private buyers are falling

Electric cars lose market share as private sales fall

Car sales overall grew in March but fewer individuals are buying electric vehicles.

www.bbc.co.uk

and it’s not just in the UK

VW electric car sales plunge: Why are Europeans returning to petrol?

Sales of Volkswagen electric vehicles in Europe fell by almost a quarter in the first three months of the year as consumers returned to petrol.

www.euronews.com

There are many people who have evs who have come to regret it and now hate them - but depreciation makes them tough to get out of.

 

[skybluetony176]

You do realise that the eastern side of Ukraine is home to people who consider themselves ethnic Russians don't you?
Those people speak Russian and have always been Russian. Please tell me you understand that at the very least.

For them the thought of being part of a nato governed country is unacceptable, and they would consider it a desertion of duty if Putin was to abandon them.

This war ends in only one of 2 ways.

Either Trump wins the election and stops the arms flow to Ukraine and they accept Russias terms for peace which will mean the east is returned to Russia and the rest becomes a neutral zone once again with no chance of joining NATO.

Or Biden wins the election and continues to fight Russia to the last Ukranian (which will probably be after the next winter) then Ukraine will be forced to accept the terms for peace which will mean the east is returned to Russia ant the rest becomes a neutral zone once again with no chance of joining NATO.

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE. UKRAINE AINT WINNING THIS WAR.

Understand what? It’s irrelevant. Should France invade Canada because people there speak French and see themselves as ethnically french while the other half of the country don’t? Maybe the Republic of Ireland should invade Northern Ireland for the same reason. It means nothing and again is just parroting Putins warped narrative of reality. Russia doesn’t have terms for peace. Russia has an imperialists solution that suits no one but Putin. Ukraine is a sovereign country and should have its own freedom to choose its own path. Farage of all people should agree with that, I actually find it quite strange that he doesn’t.

 

[skybluetony176]

On the subject of Farage and Russia, one of his nutter candidates is covering himself in glory (in Salisbury of all places!)...


Salisbury's Reform UK candidate booed for telling crowd Putin 'seemed very good'

I raise you

 

[Grendel]

I think you’ve got an outdated view TBH.

Electric cars depreciate less than petrol for a start: Electric car depreciation: do they hold their value?

There’s a small insurance premium but that’s outweighed by fuel and maintenance costs. Why is electric car insurance so expensive? EV vs ICE cost analysis | Auto Express

Everyone I know who drives electric loves it TBH.

The industry had always planned to continue with combustion engine and hybrid cross overs to delay full electric transition. The hybrid sales are now soaring as was always the manufacturer plan. Something I recall you scoffed at a while ago.