torchomatic
Well-Known Member
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And to prove the point chuck in a ridiculous comment for good measure.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (55 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
how are house prices going up if all the immigrants are here to take off the state
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I feel like we're in a never ending circle where the total is brought up, people then break it down into the smaller numbers of who is what and ask what can practically be done, and then get no answer.
Of course economic migrants are net contributors to the economy so actually put more cash in to pay for services... and house building if the government so wished to use it that way.
And frankly I'm bored of it, and bored of myself in responding so there's that. We have a new government, I'll agree with the concern about vote share and what happens in the future, but now is not the time to be reductive when we have a chance to look forward with optimism... for however long that lasts!
fatso
Well-Known Member
That's not unique to Reform, it's also been a topic for the Tory party.
And should a democratic government in the UK be permanently over ruled by a court that isn't answerable to the British people?
If a non British court constantly seeks to step in the way of a British parliament and it's desire to carry out the wishes of the British people, then you have to ask if that Court should have jurisdiction over those people. We are not bound to be members, we are free to leave should we desire.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
What do you consider to be a reasonable level of immigration?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You might find this useful!
What is the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)?
We are Amnesty International UK. We are ordinary people from across the world standing up for humanity and human rights.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If we decide not to adhere to international laws, we go down a very dangerous path. Winston Churchill’s legacy being spat on is not something I thought I’d see the right embracing but here we are.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It's astonishing really isn't it, that we see a campaign for *less* human rights. That's not an ideological position as far as I can see as righties can be concerned about such things as much as anybody else, it's a plain lack of morality.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Really? Who's housing all these people?
They arnt all in barges and b&b's.
There are private landlords who are renting their properties to agencies. Those agencies are funded by the government to find housing for immigrants.
How do I know? Because my brother rents his house in this way.
That housing stock is obviously not then available to the traditional rental market, so rental property numbers are reduced, demand is higher and prices rise.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Quirks of our electoral system shown up again with Libs getting less than half the percentage vote they used to get when they ended up with 20 seats, but end up with 71!
Sooner we get rid of the HoL and have a PR system there the better.
Sooner we get rid of the HoL and have a PR system there the better.
fatso
Well-Known Member
We are there though.
If we had a more common sense approach to migration (ie, keeping numbers to manageable levels) this wouldn't be the position we are in. But there you go.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Also, we had no problem getting involved in illegal wars and occupations of other countries in a flagrant breach of international law.
There is a precedent when it suits!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
100% agree. However, given our electoral system, modest swings back in favour of other parties and there are some really vulnerable seats.
Labour won a majority with the smallest % of vote share ever. Whilst last night was a massive achievement that was truly unthinkable in 2019, it is a warning that massive majorities can be overturned in one election cycle. The size of the majority isn’t built on solid foundations so there isn’t room for complacency.
Given how much damage Reform and Conservative did to one another, I could definitely see some sort of deal being struck at the next election. Most of the Tory ‘big beasts’ marginally lost their seats with massive vote shares for Reform.
I’m glad the SNP have been wiped out of Scotland and I’m grateful Labour have done this. That’s been my highlight of the night.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
One thing to mitigate a low %age is the Labour strategy was to campaign in seats it had a chance of losing, and not bother with the safe seats so in many cases that meant the vote share went down in those seats, but they still won them. Of course there are plenty of other reasons too, but it's partly a strategic decision to play the system.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Exactly. The popularity of Farage is going to increase if immigration isn't controlled and reduced drastically.
Ignore the immigration figures and continue as things are and we are heading to a position the French are in . The great thing about democracy is if you ignore the public concerns it will bite you eventually.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Don't care. We just needed them out.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Despite the spin from right and left, this is an immense victory.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes the FPTP systems one argument of stability is gone.
The result could easily be reversed next time
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So was Churchill wrong?
fatso
Well-Known Member
That's not how things work.
A large majority is traditionally the worst outcome for any party. As weird as that seems.
With no effective opposition, there are no "checks or balances" in the house of commons. The party with the massive majority doesn't need to unite and eventually starts to fragment, making it impossible to lead and ends up in fragmentation.
That's exactly what we've seen in the Conservative party since they won their massive majority in 2019.
I'd also point out that Labour won their landslide victory with only 35% of the vote.
So that means that 65% of the electorate voted against them, and didn't want them in office.
This inevitably will mean that those 65% will feel disengaged with the Labour party. That doesn't bode well for an incoming government, so I'd expect Starmers problems have only just started.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You speak as though I support our involvement in international crimes?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Also it was an extremely low turn out
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
There's a very important factor that plays in to the immigration debate and that's the demographic of the country, I think it may have been mentioned on here recently.
We used to have 4 working people to every retired person, now it's 3 and soon it will be 2.
It's a huge issue, and not just here.
We used to have 4 working people to every retired person, now it's 3 and soon it will be 2.
It's a huge issue, and not just here.
fatso
Well-Known Member
He was wrong on many things throughout his career, and was voted out of office as a result.
However he was obviously right to stand up to Hitler.
And when he did, he was the only man in the cabinet who wanted to.
Even after victory in the second world war, he was voted out of office by the British people at the very first opportunity.
Nick
Administrator
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
A Tory friend of mine has put it quite well. Deep down the Tories are pro immigration as it’s good for businesses of all sizes, but they need to outwardly be against it in order to win over socially conservative people on lower incomes than the very richest.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Personally, I have no qualms with that because Labour will be stable in government. Just as the Tories were in the sense that the government wasn’t in danger of being brought down.
I’m just not a fan of the volatility and nature of coalition governments characteristic of the many European countries.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I'm not suggesting for 1 minute that you do support it.
I'm saying that previous government's have ignored international law when it's suited them
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the tories on channel 4 said it was a genius campaign
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I'd love to know what his thoughts were.
University students back home so voting in more conservative seats, so less influence on results?
With his knowledge of football, maybe he was expecting England to be taking the Euros by storm and he could ride the wav of Euphoria(!)
Overall though he's managed to top May's campaign for ineptitude really - right from the beginning it's been shockingly bad!
fatso
Well-Known Member
That's very true, but ... the problem is that consecutive government's only look at the short term, ie, immigration leads to growth, and it can do in the very short term.
Long term it leads to collapse of services and infrastructure, shortages of housing, house price inflation, and ultimately the end of the NHS which will eventually have to be replaced by some form of private medical care system.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yet you seem fine with us choosing to pursue otherwise criminal acts
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough, Farage’s big pitch was to turn the clock back to 1997 (tongue in cheek). Taxation, net migration and public services back to levels seen before Blair became PM.
Immigration would be main appeal for ‘red wall’ areas and taxation a focus in attracting ‘blue wall’ support. Calling them a single issue party is reductive and wrong.