Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Can we all agree the assisted dying bill is a positive

 

---

[shmmeee]

Can we all agree the assisted dying bill is a positive

Im going to go out on a limb and say no we won’t all agree.

Im pro, it’s not your life if you’re not allowed to choose how and when to end it. I’d probably want to use it if I got certain degenerative diseases, no one is forcing you to do it if you don’t want and the anti side seem absolutely batshit making up all kinds of weird scenarios to justify their opposition.

 

[MalcSB]

You really are windmilling aren't you.

Nowhere are those two statements contradictory.

He did not say that he would allow a GE if a small number of people signed a petition asking for one. Neither does he say he's ignoring those non Labour voters - the fact he's talking about it is proof he's not ignoring it.

It was clear for a long time before the last GE that the Tories were hated and we wanted them out - didn't see them calling ou
GE early because it was what the people wanted.

And the irony being that the reason they seemingly dislike him is because most of his policies are pandering to them and their ilk as he's basically just continuing what went on before.

It really is getting hard to take you seriously as you are just taking anything they do and trying to find a way to complain about it. Even if he increased pensions and cut taxes you'd complain that it was economically illiterate and would bankrupt the country.

There are surely ways which a supposedly intelligent person, with load of supposedly intelligent advisors, could have acknowledged that the petition shows a level of concern about the direction this government is taking not being what was suggested pre election (I,e, people feel that they were lied to) without dismissing it as entirely being people who didn’t vote Labour. Given that he had made a point of serving everybody and specifically mentioned those who didn’t vote Labour in his first speech outside number 10.

 

[MalcSB]

Can we all agree the assisted dying bill is a positive

Not necessarily, and it hasn’t been passed yet.

 

[MalcSB]

You really are windmilling aren't you.

Nowhere are those two statements contradictory.

He did not say that he would allow a GE if a small number of people signed a petition asking for one. Neither does he say he's ignoring those non Labour voters - the fact he's talking about it is proof he's not ignoring it.

It was clear for a long time before the last GE that the Tories were hated and we wanted them out - didn't see them calling the GE early because it was what the people wanted.

And the irony being that the reason they seemingly dislike him is because most of his policies are pandering to them and their ilk as he's basically just continuing what went on before.

It really is getting hard to take you seriously as you are just taking anything they do and trying to find a way to complain about it. Even if he increased pensions and cut taxes you'd complain that it was economically illiterate and would bankrupt the country.

It would hardly be more economically illiterate than what they are doing.

 

[shmmeee]

Really so fascinating to see the right lose their shit so much. I guess after 14 years you forget.

 

[MalcSB]

They genuinely believe this shit. They think we’re broke cos we spend it on DEI and translators not cos we have a metric fuck ton of pensioners.

The takeover of right wing meme pages from proper news is having some wild effects. Look at the state of some in this thread. Just ten years ago they’d have been quietly ignored as they rant in the corner of the pub.

What should be done about the metric fuck ton of pensioners?

Only a few will freeze to death

 

[MalcSB]

Not made of fucking sugar are they? Would last five minutes in a British winter with that attitude.

They will be fine in a British winter, they will all be tucked up nicely in a lovely warm hotel.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What should be done about the metric fuck ton of pensioners?

Only a few will freeze to death

Those that took the decision will be held responsible quite rightly
It really needs an increase in the level that people lose it but it’s not gonna happen

 

[shmmeee]

What should be done about the metric fuck ton of pensioners?

Only a few will freeze to death

Raise people’s taxes but you don’t like that either!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not necessarily, and it hasn’t been passed yet.

Why not necessarily malc? Have been reading about Canada and Oregon
Some good practices to use and ensure safeguards are kept in place

 

[PVA]

There are surely ways which a supposedly intelligent person, with load of supposedly intelligent advisors, could have acknowledged that the petition shows a level of concern about the direction this government is taking not being what was suggested pre election (I,e, people feel that they were lied to) without dismissing it as entirely being people who didn’t vote Labour. Given that he had made a point of serving everybody and specifically mentioned those who didn’t vote Labour in his first speech outside number 10.

You're contradicting yourself here a little Malc.

On the one hand you're saying Labour don't have a popular mandate because not many people voted for them, whilst on the other hand pointing out that lots of people are concerned with the way they are governing.

Of course millions of people are unhappy with the direction the government is taking - millions of people didn't want them in the first place!

 

[MalcSB]

Really so fascinating to see the right lose their shit so much. I guess after 14 years you forget.

You are so right, 14 weeks is eminently forgettable.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You're contradicting yourself here a little Malc.

On the one hand you're saying Labour don't have a popular mandate because not many people voted for them, whilst on the other hand pointing out that lots of people are concerned with the way they are governing.

Of course millions of people are unhappy with the direction the government is taking - millions of people didn't want them in the first place!

More than wanted them in fact

 

[MalcSB]

You're contradicting yourself here a little Malc.

On the one hand you're saying Labour don't have a popular mandate because not many people voted for them, whilst on the other hand pointing out that lots of people are concerned with the way they are governing.

Of course millions of people are unhappy with the direction the government is taking - millions of people didn't want them in the first place!

I’m not contradicting myself. He started his period in office by reaching out to those who hadn’t voted Labour, now he is basically saying I don’t give a shit about them. It’s Starmer who has contradicted himself. Hardly surprising given he’s a lawyer, if you want two legal opinions on something ask one barrister.

 

[shmmeee]

The right when they win a one off referendum “that’s it! The people have spoken! This issue is a once in a generation decision that’s been taken, anyone asking to revisit it in the next twenty years hates democracy!”

The right when they lose a general election that happens every five years: “Do over! I wasn’t ready! I had something in my eye! This is tyranny we need another vote!!!”

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

MalcSB I think you forget what a fcuking s*** show it was under the Conservative & Unionist Party just back in July. We were a laughing stock globally and were utterly rudderless and shambolic.
Your ranting about Labour is fine they have made some odd decisions, but you just can't expect them to make things better so quickly with the mess everything is in.
I cant see Badenoch getting in next GE so the sooner the Conservative & Unionist Party bite the bullet and appoint Farage then they will have at least 8 years in the wilderness.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The right when they win a one off referendum “that’s it! The people have spoken! This issue is a once in a generation decision that’s been taken, anyone asking to revisit it in the next twenty years hates democracy!”

The right when they lose a general election that happens every five years: “Do over! I wasn’t ready! I had something in my eye! This is tyranny we need another vote!!!”

It’s more human nature
We’re not mature enough to recognise a process whatever side we’re on
I know I’d love to revisit the brexit vote but I recognise we have to move on despite it being an immediate 4% injection into the economy
The biggest thing required in our country is the gap between rich and poor can you imagine if keir did something about that
I think he’d be shot

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

MalcSB I think you forget what a fcuking s*** show it was under the Conservative & Unionist Party just back in July. We were a laughing stock globally and were utterly rudderless and shambolic.
Your ranting about Labour is fine they have made some odd decisions, but you just can't expect them to make things better so quickly with the mess everything is in.
I cant see Badenoch getting in next GE so the sooner the Conservative & Unionist Party bite the bullet and appoint Farage then they will have at least 8 years in the wilderness.

Reform will waltz the election in 2029-30 at the current trajectory
Tories and labour would be wise to start to challenge and hold them to account for their comments and proposals

 

[MalcSB]

The right when they win a one off referendum “that’s it! The people have spoken! This issue is a once in a generation decision that’s been taken, anyone asking to revisit it in the next twenty years hates democracy!”

The right when they lose a general election that happens every five years: “Do over! I wasn’t ready! I had something in my eye! This is tyranny we need another vote!!!”

How’s Labour’s first steps going.

Labour's first steps for change – The Labour Party

A Labour government would hit the ground running, with six first steps to change Britain.

labour.org.uk

They have certainly hit the ground, but stumbling more than running.

 

[PVA]

I’m not contradicting myself. He started his period in office by reaching out to those who hadn’t voted Labour, now he is basically saying I don’t give a shit about them. It’s Starmer who has contradicted himself. Hardly surprising given he’s a lawyer, if you want two legal opinions on something ask one barrister.

But 10 million people voted for Tory or Reform.

So that's 10 million people who don't want a Labour government. We knew that the day after the election. So why are we now acting like we need to take a petition of 2 million social media dwellers seriously as some kind of mass democratic movement? That's what the election was for.

 

[Marty]

Can we all agree the assisted dying bill is a positive

Without looking at the details, I think the general idea is a positive, no reason to prolong the suffering with those who have terminal conditions. I would much rather go out on my own terms than needlessly suffering to end.

 

[MalcSB]

MalcSB I think you forget what a fcuking s*** show it was under the Conservative & Unionist Party just back in July. We were a laughing stock globally and were utterly rudderless and shambolic.
Your ranting about Labour is fine they have made some odd decisions, but you just can't expect them to make things better so quickly with the mess everything is in.
I cant see Badenoch getting in next GE so the sooner the Conservative & Unionist Party bite the bullet and appoint Farage then they will have at least 8 years in the wilderness.

But they were “Going to hit the ground running”.

Economic indicators which were improving have now reversed.

They are creating a climate in which the extreme right wing will flourish. I’m pretty sure Reform would be even worse than this shower,

 

[MalcSB]

But 10 million people voted for Tory or Reform.

So that's 10 million people who don't want a Labour government. We knew that the day after the election. So why are we now acting like we need to take a petition of 2 million social media dwellers seriously as some kind of mass democratic movement? That's what the election was for.

He simply shouldn’t have reached out to non Labour voters at the outset then. It’s hypocrisy and a lack of honesty.

The parliamentary majority despite the support of an electoral minority means that he can’t be held to account by parliament. As someone else has said in this thread, he should at least acknowledge that it is an indicator that there are icebergs ahead, and that they aren’t winning “the argument”.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s more human nature
We’re not mature enough to recognise a process whatever side we’re on
I know I’d love to revisit the brexit vote but I recognise we have to move on despite it being an immediate 4% injection into the economy
The biggest thing required in our country is the gap between rich and poor can you imagine if keir did something about that
I think he’d be shot

We’re run by people who don’t want us to progress but want to milk the most rent out of us. They were all in London pretending to be farmers and the anti elite mob couldn’t suck them off fast enough.

I’m really sorry that the ultra wealthy use housing pensions and farms to hide their cash but they do. Direct your anger at them for ruining the ability to give these assets preferential treatment.

 

[shmmeee]

He simply shouldn’t have reached out to non Labour voters at the outset then. It’s hypocrisy.

Are you serious?

 

[MalcSB]

Are you serious?

Yes

 

[shmmeee]

It’s more human nature
We’re not mature enough to recognise a process whatever side we’re on
I know I’d love to revisit the brexit vote but I recognise we have to move on despite it being an immediate 4% injection into the economy
The biggest thing required in our country is the gap between rich and poor can you imagine if keir did something about that
I think he’d be shot

It is. And I’m breaking my own rule here which is that most things people whine at the left or right for are in fact things humans do.

 

[MalcSB]

We’re run by people who don’t want us to progress but want to milk the most rent out of us. They were all in London pretending to be farmers and the anti elite mob couldn’t suck them off fast enough.

I’m really sorry that the ultra wealthy use housing pensions and farms to hide their cash but they do. Direct your anger at them for ruining the ability to give these assets preferential treatment.

We are being run by a Labour government now

 

[shmmeee]

Yes

So you think 6m people who didn’t vote for Labour should have more say than the 10m who did?

Come on Malc. You aren’t this stupid. People are sad they lost an election. It happens. You’ll get another go in 2029.

 

[shmmeee]

We are being run by a Labour government now

If you think the government is the only power base in this country I’m not sure what to tell you.

 

[MalcSB]

So you think 6m people who didn’t vote for Labour should have more say than the 10m who did?

Come on Malc. You aren’t this stupid. People are sad they lost an election. It happens. You’ll get another go in 2029.

If you are going to quote numbers, get them right. 19m didn’t vote Labour, twice as many as did.

 

[MalcSB]

So you think 6m people who didn’t vote for Labour should have more say than the 10m who did?

Come on Malc. You aren’t this stupid. People are sad they lost an election. It happens. You’ll get another go in 2029.

There did need to be a change, as there will need to be in 2029.

 

[MalcSB]

If you think the government is the only power base in this country I’m not sure what to tell you.

I had forgotten about the illuminati. Where is David Icke when you need him,

 

[MalcSB]

So you think 6m people who didn’t vote for Labour should have more say than the 10m who did?

Come on Malc. You aren’t this stupid. People are sad they lost an election. It happens. You’ll get another go in 2029.

I said he shouldn’t have bothered reaching out to non Labour voters if he didn’t mean it. Is that such an unreasonable opinion?

Saying something you don’t mean is dishonesty and lying.

No change there then.