Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Of course not they will be available in 2 to 3 weeks, I am going on the last 2 seasons figures and I have no reason to think there will be a major difference, do you?
Of course not they will be available in 2 to 3 weeks, I am going on the last 2 seasons figures and I have no reason to think there will be a major difference, do you?Have you seen the accounts year ending 31 May 2017? The ones that are not yet published. That is the period being referred to here.
Which or whose financial year are you talking about?
The Checkatrade final is in the Otium financial year to 31/05/2017. Those figures are due out by 28/02/2018. The sales of Harries, Thomas & Stevenson are in the Otium financial year to 31/05/2018. The FA cup run is also in 2018 Otium financial year
Monies do not count on the SCMP until received, so have the supposed £1m in transfer fees been received or are they dependent on stage payments etc?
The SCMP budget will be based on the 2017/18 season, that would probably exclude the Checkatrade monies depending on when received
THe cup monies would have had to cover the period from May to July when the club had no income but had expenses to pay, whilst trying to assemble a squad.
The only budget rankings are on the SCMP budget. Fisher said we had around the 8th best budget at the start of the season, which means at that stage they were projected figures. The ranking is done either half yearly or quarterly so it may have changed.
Which budget are we even discussing because SCMP budget doesn't necessarily mean that's the budget that MR is using it could be more (there are exclusions from the SCMP) it could be less. Some players do not count towards it at all.
Finally all of the income belongs to Otium t/a CCFC it isn't SISU's. It has to be paid in to and accounted for in the Otium t/a CCFC financials. As yet there is no evidence of SISU or ARVO extracting any funds or even any interest payments. Given the expenses to be met there isnt much room to take money out.
Final thought, CCFC match income alone from the league is currently pushing £2m even given the low crowds. Add in the league distributions, the commercial income, the sponsorship, the Cup winnings and match shares, plus the player sales & player add ons and I would guess turnover from all sources could be pushing towards £4m. There are clubs in this division that survive on crowds of less than 5000 (equates to league ticket income under 1.3m), have no cup run winnings, no great commercial income and few sales of stars. Some have even been promoted on such lowly turnovers - take a look at Burton for instance
Whilst we don't have the greatest income I cant help feeling we have recruited light weight players, been unlucky with long term injuries, seen some rank average decision making on the pitch and on the sidelines, and been not up to the job. We should be able to compete consistently at the top of this poor division and not be worrying as to where the next win comes from.
Yes, were in a different league, that gives me a lot of reason to believe there's a major difference.Of course not they will be available in 2 to 3 weeks, I am going on the last 2 seasons figures and I have no reason to think there will be a major difference, do you?
The point about transfers is baloney, if you read the accounts the overall figure from transfer dealings is clearly identified.
We don't know how much is from each deal but the overall numbers are clear and it is a significant proportion of turnover.
As for budget the only option is to compare the numbers against data available from other similar sized clubs.
As for aims and strategy, sure all is conjecture as SISU have a tendency to obfuscate their real aims and objectives.
Yes, were in a different league, that gives me a lot of reason to believe there's a major difference.
Had you factored in less income from sponsorships? Lower ranking so money from the EFL/FA will be less. Or did you forget about all of That?
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Normally I don't like to make myself clear.. gotit.Got a like for the correct use of obfuscate!
My point about transfers essentially agrees with you, payments are staged so if players are sold from time to time and do well then income will feed into the transfer dealings over several years from each deal. e.g. if Callum Wilson wins an England cap this season then the Cherries will almost certainly have to pay us a fee.
As for which year, even though the OP is concerned about this years budget I've already said those numbers will not be available till this time next year, some people choose to ignore that and imply I don't understand the publication schedule. The next figures due out shortly are for last season, the relegation season.
and you are right about competitiveness in this league, we should be top 3 not struggling to secure a playoff position.. its embarrassing.
As a matter of interest do you know what our turnover that year ?last available info on Accrington is to 31/12/2016. Turnover 2.4m Not sure why it would have improved greatly since then
Or maybe the lower we are in the the league structure the less money they have to put in?Well maybe SISU's strategy is simply to take money out till their investment is completely recovered then sell?
Alternatively they have to build value so they can sell for more and that means promotion.
As a matter of interest do you know what our turnover that year ?
Hear bloody hear. Well explained., it’s a catastrophe that we’re struggling to beat the likes of FGR, Yeovil, Colchester etc, Robins has to answer for this.Which or whose financial year are you talking about?
The Checkatrade final is in the Otium financial year to 31/05/2017. Those figures are due out by 28/02/2018. The sales of Harries, Thomas & Stevenson are in the Otium financial year to 31/05/2018. The FA cup run is also in 2018 Otium financial year
Monies do not count on the SCMP until received, so have the supposed £1m in transfer fees been received or are they dependent on stage payments etc?
The current SCMP budget will be based on the 2017/18 season, that would probably exclude the Checkatrade monies depending on when received
THe cup monies would have had to cover the period from May to July when the club had no income but had expenses to pay, whilst trying to assemble a squad.
The only budget rankings are on the SCMP budget. Fisher said we had around the 8th best budget at the start of the season, which means at that stage they were projected figures. The ranking is done either half yearly or quarterly so it may have changed.
Which budget are we even discussing because SCMP budget doesn't necessarily mean that's the budget that MR is using it could be more (there are exclusions from the SCMP) it could be less. Some players do not count towards it at all.
Finally all of the income belongs to Otium t/a CCFC it isn't SISU's. It has to be paid in to and accounted for in the Otium t/a CCFC financials. As yet there is no evidence of SISU or ARVO extracting any funds or even any interest payments. Given the expenses to be met there isnt much room to take money out.
Final thought, CCFC match income alone from the league is currently pushing £2m even given the low crowds. Add in the league distributions, the commercial income, the sponsorship, the Cup winnings and match shares, plus the player sales & player add ons and I would guess turnover from all sources could be pushing towards £4m. There are clubs in this division that survive on crowds of less than 5000 (equates to league ticket income under 1.3m), have no cup run winnings, no great commercial income and few sales of stars. Some have even been promoted on such lowly turnovers - take a look at Burton for instance
Whilst we don't have the greatest income I cant help feeling we have recruited light weight players, been unlucky with long term injuries, seen some rank average decision making on the pitch and on the sidelines, and been not up to the job. We should be able to compete consistently at the top of this poor division and not be worrying as to where the next win comes from.
Hear bloody hear. Well explained., it’s a catastrophe that we’re struggling to beat the likes of FGR, Yeovil, Colchester etc, Robins has to answer for this.
Well given player sales tend to run over £2M p.a. it probably pays for itself and more.I'd also throw in the we will be the only one with a Cat 2 academy which requires us to put in £600k+ pa on top of the FA grant, I imagine most teams in our league will on have a cat 4 academy, so won't have the extra costs we do.
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Its missing a number of player values, and some are just random. McNulty and Beavon are both worth £200k? Jodi Jones only £150k, bayliss has no value. Willis only £150k. Ameobi aged 36 is valued at £500kThis may not be 100% accurate, but I think it is a pretty good idea of where we are budget and spend wise:
View attachment 9067
You can follow the link to Transfermarkt to see the full table and also look at other leagues. Take a look at Mowbray's Blackburn for example, they are literally the Man City of League 1.
Link: League Two 17/18
That’s my whole point, we can beat these teams but not the teams lower in the table with weaker players, the mentality is all wrong the way MR sets us up against these teams, basically 6 defenders, his arrogance at saying we are one of the best teams in this league has rubbed off on the players, instead of gearing them up for 46 cup finals.In the same way he an answer for us beating Notts County, Luton, Stoke, Lincoln, Exeter etc.
Not strictly true though is it? The owners could have the ambition for us to be promoted whilst being self sustaining and operating under a tight belt.I think the budget reflects the ambition of our owners.
Quantity not quality.But Sisu are bad, very bad, so taking the transfer fees for our young starlets is part of a strategy to fleece the club... *eyes roll*
We’ve signed 11 permanent players - all experienced pros at our level. 15 players in total. The club has clearly invested in the team. We still need a few more pieces, but I’m happy with what we’ve done in one summer.
That’s my whole point, we can beat these teams but not the teams lower in the table with weaker players, the mentality is all wrong the way MR sets us up against these teams, basically 6 defenders, his arrogance at saying we are one of the best teams in this league has rubbed off on the players, instead of gearing them up for 46 cup finals.
Verba, non facta.Not strictly true though is it? The owners could have the ambition for us to be promoted whilst being self sustaining and operating under a tight belt.
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We’ve signed 11 permanent players - all experienced pros at our level. 15 players in total. The club has clearly invested in the team. We still need a few more pieces, but I’m happy with what we’ve done in one summer.
Its missing a number of player values, and some are just random. McNulty and Beavon are both worth £200k? Jodi Jones only £150k, bayliss has no value. Willis only £150k. Ameobi aged 36 is valued at £500k
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True but following the departures at the end of last season they had to sign a lot of players simply to be able to put a team out. Some of those signed have been youngsters with no experience. But did they sign the right type of player? The balance of the squad left from last season would seem to be 6 or 7 experienced players and a whole lot of inexperienced academy players. Are they good enough? Is the squad up for the physicality of L2 every week ..... it doesn't seem to be. I don't doubt their skill at this level but it just all seems light weight physically & mentally
There is no great depth to the squad, despite all the numbers, in the attributes needed for L2
I think the budget reflects the ambition of our owners.
So you agree with me even if you don't realise it.No the budget is a projection of what the expected outgoings will be against what the expected income will be and ideally see the club running at a profit or at least breaking even.
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