England - Lee Carsley Era (4 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

This is chicken and egg thinking here… What major nations have dabbled in hiring foreign managers? I can only think of Belgium, Portugal and ourselves.

We put too much importance on the manager and think Carsley would’ve probably done a good job with the team given time. There’s no point in having a coaching pathway if when the chips are down, they’ll bottle it and hire ‘the best’ available manager.

The issue with the "coaching pathway" is there is simply no English coaches experienced enough or good enough. That's an issue for the FA to look at though, they showed the difference in course prices between England and other nations and it's no wonder why there are so many more qualified coaches in other countries.

I say it's not "bottling it" if you look at the options and pick the best one.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

The issue with the "coaching pathway" is there is simply no English coaches experienced enough or good enough. That's an issue for the FA to look at though, they showed the difference in course prices between England and other nations and it's no wonder why there are so many more qualified coaches in other countries.

I say it's not "bottling it" if you look at the options and pick the best one.

Scaloni and de la Fuente achieved what exactly in senior football before winning the World Cup and Euros respectively?

On Spain and de la Fuente, he replaced Luis Enrique who is objectively a far more accomplished manager and yet de la Fuente’s team look far better.

Further back, you had Fernando Santos Joachim Löw who have won major tournaments in the last decade. No top level club management experience.

Which leaves Mancini and Deschamps who are both accomplished managers but no one would say they are best in class even in their own countries.

The bottom line is that for England, we are obsessed with the manager being ‘top class’. Yet, there are plenty of teams in the last decade who have won tournaments with ‘under-qualified’ managers in relation to the talent they manage.

For arguments sake, if Spain were led to Euros victory by Pep and Argentina led by Simeone I’d understand the requirement for a world class manager.

 

[David O'Day]

Scaloni and de la Fuente achieved what exactly in senior football before winning the World Cup and Euros respectively?

On Spain and de la Fuente, he replaced Luis Enrique who is objectively a far more accomplished manager and yet de la Fuente’s team look far better.

Further back, you had Fernando Santos Joachim Löw who have won major tournaments in the last decade. No top level club management experience.

Which leaves Mancini and Deschamps who are both accomplished managers but no one would say they are best in class even in their own countries.

The bottom line is that for England, we are obsessed with the manager being ‘top class’. Yet, there are plenty of teams in the last decade who have won tournaments with ‘under-qualified’ managers in relation to the talent they manage.

For arguments sake, if Spain were led to Euros victory by Pep and Argentina led by Simeone I’d understand the requirement for a world class manager.

Scaloni who had leaned very heavily on the best ever player in the world?

de la Feunte who has the best set of players in Europe?

Santos had managed the big three in Portugal and internationally for Greece before her became Portugal manager.

Low like Scaloni and de la Feunte worked in the national set up as either assistants or u20/u21 managers so the they are not the same as say giving Eddie Howe or Graham Potter the job, if we follow the same route it would be to make Carsley the job full time.

This is classic corelation not meaning causation

Is your argument really we shouldn't hire the better manager?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Scaloni and de la Fuente achieved what exactly in senior football before winning the World Cup and Euros respectively?

On Spain and de la Fuente, he replaced Luis Enrique who is objectively a far more accomplished manager and yet de la Fuente’s team look far better.

Further back, you had Fernando Santos Joachim Löw who have won major tournaments in the last decade. No top level club management experience.

Which leaves Mancini and Deschamps who are both accomplished managers but no one would say they are best in class even in their own countries.

The bottom line is that for England, we are obsessed with the manager being ‘top class’. Yet, there are plenty of teams in the last decade who have won tournaments with ‘under-qualified’ managers in relation to the talent they manage.

For arguments sake, if Spain were led to Euros victory by Pep and Argentina led by Simeone I’d understand the requirement for a world class manager.

Comparing to Spain is a false equivalence really, they’ve a history and culture of producing top class coaches. How many Spanish managers are there in La Liga?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Scaloni who had leaned very heavily on the best ever player in the world? de la Feunte who has the best set of players in Europe? Santos had managed the big three in Portugal and internationally for Greece before her became Portugal manager. Low like Scaloni and de la Feunte worked in the national set up as either assistants or u20/u21 managers so the they are not the same as say giving Eddie Howe or Graham Potter the job, if we follow the same route it would be to make Carsley the job full time. This is classic corelation not meaning causation Is your argument really we shouldn't hire the better manager?

Scaloni who had leaned very heavily on the best ever player in the world?

de la Feunte who has the best set of players in Europe?

Santos had managed the big three in Portugal and internationally for Greece before her became Portugal manager.

Low like Scaloni and de la Feunte worked in the national set up as either assistants or u20/u21 managers so the they are not the same as say giving Eddie Howe or Graham Potter the job, if we follow the same route it would be to make Carsley the job full time.

This is classic corelation not meaning causation

Is your argument really we shouldn't hire the better manager?

There are lots of positives about Tuchel and think he was probably the best candidate available in terms of coaching ability.

However, international football is not club football and having a world class manager is not a precondition for success. Yet, England fans are obsessed with the idea of this requirement of having a world class manager from the club game.

We had La Liga, the Premiership POTY and Bundesliga’s top goal scorer. Going into Euro 2024 we and 3-4 teams were favoured over Spain to win it - even when the stattos looked into the data. On personnel alone, I still think we have a better group of players than Spain but that’s academic and therefore, irrelevant. If I follow your own logic, England doesn’t need a world class manager because we have this plethora of talent…

I find it strange that in the same post, you down play the importance of the manager for Spain and Argentina whilst arguing for the need for a world class manager for England.

PS. Tuchel will have my full support now he’s in the role. Personally, I’d like to see Carsley given another shot at the job down the line when he’s developed more as a coach. He’s tried unorthodox things and this is the kind of thinking England probably needs.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Comparing to Spain is a false equivalence really, they’ve a history and culture of producing top class coaches. How many Spanish managers are there in La Liga?

The Spain comparison was more that de la Fuente was not considered a top coach amongst his fellow countrymen.

Which is relevant and when you consider how Spain looked under Luis Enrique and this Euros… Enrique had many of the same players.

Many fancied Germany because they had the best manager in the tournament (as well as other factors of course).

 

[alexccfc99]

I see this as an appointment for the next World Cup and likely no further, he will surely still have his eye on club management.

I am happy with the Tuchel appointment

However I do believe that in the long run the FA's ideal candidate is Eddie Howe

Obviously there was a slim chance prizing him away from Newcastle at the moment but there will be a point in the future if or when Newcastle's owners get them to the heights they want to get to where they move on from Eddie Howe for a 'bigger' name and Howe having a shelf life of another 18 months at Newcastle probably wouldn't be a bad estimate

That being said Tuchel could still make himself indispencable by winning the World Cup so who knows

 

[fernandopartridge]

A lot of rubbish about how Tuchel is a good appointment as he got the best out of Kane, Kane scored so many goals cause he was playing for the top goalscorers in Germany and the weaker teams are generally less competitive in Germany.
Kanes just been hammered for his performance in the Euros in the Summer ignoring that his coach for the last 12 months leading into the tournament was Tuchel, he should have been confident, fit and firing according to the narrative now that Tuchel is gonna get the best out of Kane.

Such English delusion, teams stay up in the PL with just over 30 points

 

[Nuskyblue]

It is ridiculous that pundits say that England have to win either the Euros or a WC, even the FA have said Tuchel's appointment gives them the best chance of winning the next WC. I just want an England team to play in a positive, attacking style & not the turgid, defensive shite we have seen over the last couple of years, winning something would be nice but we have to remember there are other countries with good players.

I think an above par result in a meaningful competition should be the goal.

I think the last three tournaments we have been beaten at exactly the point you'd expect (based on favourable draws).

Tuchel won't deliver swashbuckling football, well I don't expect him to... but hopefully he has the nouse to win us something!

 

[Nuskyblue]

Scaloni and de la Fuente achieved what exactly in senior football before winning the World Cup and Euros respectively?

On Spain and de la Fuente, he replaced Luis Enrique who is objectively a far more accomplished manager and yet de la Fuente’s team look far better.

Further back, you had Fernando Santos Joachim Löw who have won major tournaments in the last decade. No top level club management experience.

Which leaves Mancini and Deschamps who are both accomplished managers but no one would say they are best in class even in their own countries.

The bottom line is that for England, we are obsessed with the manager being ‘top class’. Yet, there are plenty of teams in the last decade who have won tournaments with ‘under-qualified’ managers in relation to the talent they manage.

For arguments sake, if Spain were led to Euros victory by Pep and Argentina led by Simeone I’d understand the requirement for a world class manager.

I think in general, successful international coaches generally haven't done a great deal at club level and more often than not don't go into have great success after they've finished internationally.

 

[tisza]

I'd be curious to se the list of these 10 coaches FA said they interviewed. Claim they did interview English coaches but Howe says he wasn't one of them.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I'd be curious to se the list of these 10 coaches FA said they interviewed. Claim they did interview English coaches but Howe says he wasn't one of them.

I doubt they interviewed 10 coaches

 

[Otis]

I wasn't too fearful of having Carsley as our new manager, but now I have seen he's picked a midfield two of Conor Gallagher and Curtis Jones as the two central midfielders for England tonight, I have changed my mind.

I know there's been injuries, but still....

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I wasn't too fearful of having Carsley as our new manager, but now I have seen he's picked a midfield two of Conor Gallagher and Curtis Jones as the two central midfielders for England tonight, I have changed my mind.

I know there's been injuries, but still....

To be fair the number of players who have skived off the games is kind of taking the piss.

 

[Otis]

To be fair the number of players who have skived off the games is kind of taking the piss.

It is. Angel Gomes has to be better choice though doesn't he?

 

[ccfcchris]

Good luck Lee.

 

[ccfcchris]

Get in. 1-0

 

[Otis]

As the game fluctuates one way and then the other, I am prepared to post Carlsley in, followed by Carsley out at the key moments

 

[Paul Anthony]

Ref seems a bit card happy

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Worst National Anthem singing ever!
Great goal.
Gallagher will be lucky to last game, with the way he plays.

 

[ccfcchris]

Nice football by England. What's not to like?

 

[Otis]

Worst National Anthem singing ever!
Great goal.
Gallagher will be lucky to last game, with the way he plays.

Red card waiting to happen isn't he.

 

[ccfcchris]

Greece getting frustrated.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Red card waiting to happen isn't he.

Pickfpord trying to outsh*thouse Ben Wilson, with inevitable results.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Well done ref…booking Pickford after 26mins for time wasting. If only championship refs are watching and taking note

 

[Ian1779]

Ref seems a bit card happy

He’s after a role recently vacated by David Coote

 

[ccfc922]

Well done ref…booking Pickford after 26mins for time wasting. If only championship refs are watching and taking note

This fellas the other extreme though lol.

 

[ccfcchris]

Good save though.

 

[skybluecam]

Bellingham constantly looks like he’s carrying a knock these days

 

[ccfcchris]

Using a laser pin? WTF

 

[Paul Anthony]

Using a laser pin? WTF

Looks like there's a few of them about

 

[SBAndy]

Started brightly but gone very flat. Kyle Walker pissing me off, playing far too narrow in possession.

 

[skybluecam]

Ollie

 

[Paul Anthony]

That's pretty poor from Watkins

 

[Otis]

We have controlled the game well for long spells, but the one thing annoying me is that we get into really good positions, wide, just outside their box and instead of getting the ball in, it just seems to go all the way back to our own keeper.