Jon Sharp - BPA (10 Viewers)

[Otis]

Well I stated I will sit back and watch as we reach 9 pages of argument, did not expect it to turn into a capacity debate though.

Lets be honest though, does anyone really truthfully expect SISU/CCFC to build a new stadium? whether this be with CRFC of in a different location? personally I simply do not believe they will. It all about stressing others business models and then like vultures they dive in to pick up the pieces. They have to be seen by the Football League to be pro active in seeking a new stadium.

I foresee this.. they will make the odd inquiry with local councils around Warwickshire to show up on FOI, they will then make some initial approach with CRFC about a ground share/development, depending on the transfer of lease for Butts Park Arena. Wasps will then come back to the table to negotiate with CCFC/SISU, SISu will then sign a 5-10 year deal with Wasps and the saga will continue until JR1/JR2/JR3/JR4 have all been exhausted.

So capacity will not be an issue, the terms and conditions of our rental with Wasps will be.

Thread closed

As I said before, smoke and mirrors.

 

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[hill83]

If it were evened out.

Unfortunately a lot more people would rather watch Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham or Spurs than Brentford or Leyton Orient.

Well yeah, but I did some maths on the internet.

And that's also the case in Coventry to be fair.

 

[dongonzalos]

How was Burnleys promotion a freak. How about Watford. Doubt if either of those or Swansea, QPR or reading would swap with us now let alone Bournmouth.

There is no direct correlation between clubs succeeding in the championship and ground capacity. Other factors are far more significant.

The owner is usually the most important factor.

You have completely missed the point.

 

[Otis]

Well yeah, but I did some maths on the internet.

Wow. I didn't know you could do that.

The internet is good for things isn't it.

Is it possible to look at pictures and stuff as well?

 

[Grendel]

I would swap who runs their clubs for SISU. Then our chances of success would multiply.

Which you may achieve with a ground regardless of capacity

 

[dongonzalos]

Otis is right
15k on the outskirts of the city.
There is a chance with new owners of future development

10-15 k at the butts. That's it.

25k is not ever going to happen

 

[Grendel]

The owner is usually the most important factor.

You have completely missed the point.

Odd I thought it was size of stadium as you need 30,000 to show ambition.

 

[hill83]

Which you may achieve with a ground regardless of capacity

So take one for the team and agree that upping your estimate for a potential capacity wouldn't be a bad idea. Come on, you can do it.

 

[Grendel]

So take one for the team and agree that upping your estimate for a potential capacity wouldn't be a bad idea. Come on, you can do it.

If there was a stadium to be built with expansion potential I genuinely would start at around 20,000

 

[Otis]

You always need the potential to expand if need be.

Butts would be fantastic if were expandable to meet our potential needs.

It will never, ever accommodate a 25,000 seater capacity there. Too cramped for space, too close to residential, a major road and a brand new retirement village.

Shame the village was built. It would have been perfect otherwise.

It would do us for now, but wouldn't be fit for purpose if we went on and had success.

 

[hill83]

If there was a stadium to be built with expansion potential I genuinely would start at around 20,000

Come on, add 2.5k to that and I'll give you a cuddle.

 

[skybluetony176]

Also the city has changed immeasurably in terms of demographics and has a lot of newly arrived communities (40%+ minority ethnic group in primary school, compared to thr whole city in the 2001 ~9%), this reduces the pool of potential customers going forward.

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Surely this increases the pool?

 

[hill83]

Surely this increases the pool?

Ethnic minorities don't go to the football. I've never been, it's all been a lie.

 

[stupot07]

Surely this increases the pool?

No, because the city hasn't particularly increased, and newly arrived communities tend to be poorer and have less disposable income, and have different priorities for the money they do have.

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[skybluetony176]

Ethnic minorities don't go to the football. I've never been, it's all been a lie.

I still say you look like Ian Browns lovechild, your latest avatar only confirming that. Is Manc an ethnic minority?

 

[stupot07]

Ethnic minorities don't go to the football. I've never been, it's all been a lie.

I didn't mean that Hill. I'm thinking more of Chinese students, polish and eastern European communities, romanians, roma gypses, black French speaking African communities, those from iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, somalia, etc.

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[skybluetony176]

No, because the city hasn't particularly increased, and newly arrived communities tend to be poorer and have less disposable income, and have different priorities for the money they do have.

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A lot of them also settle permanently and make a good living for themselves. Encouraging them to support the local football team is a great way of integrating them into the wider community.

 

[Otis]

A lot of them also settle permanently and make a good living for themselves. Encouraging them to support the local football team is a great way of integrating them into the wider community.

I know quite a lot of Polish people who go up to the City on occasion.

Have a winning side and that will increase for sure. The Poles love their football.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I didn't mean that Hill. I'm thinking more of Chinese students, polish and eastern European communities, romanians, roma gypses, black French speaking African communities, those from iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, somalia, etc.

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Do you mean... As in Bigirimana ethnic minority Burundi types... You must be right, they don't like football do they!

 

[Grendel]

Come on, add 2.5k to that and I'll give you a cuddle.

22,499 would be acceptable.

 

[hill83]

I didn't mean that Hill. I'm thinking more of Chinese students, polish and eastern European communities, romanians, roma gypses, black French speaking African communities, those from iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, somalia, etc.

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Ah, you never know. Football is universal. Unfortunately we are shit.

 

[hill83]

22,499 would be acceptable.

Deal.

 

[colin101]

Could this be the modular answer for the new ground, easy to increase OR decrease capacity :meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::meh::jimlad::jimlad::jimlad::jimlad::jimlad:

Swansea are after a new stadium expansion because they have established themselves first.

Which is exactly what I said

As many have said your username is the ultimate in irony.

 

[stupot07]

Do you mean... As in Bigirimana ethnic minority Burundi types... You must be right, they don't like football do they!

Do you think his parents would have been able to afford season ticket or to have gone to matches regularly? My point was paying customers

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[Sky Blue Kid]

I didn't mean that Hill. I'm thinking more of Chinese students, polish and eastern European communities, romanians, roma gypses, black French speaking African communities, those from iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, somalia, etc.

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Sorry mate, but, you don't half talk out of your arse at times

 

[hill83]

I still say you look like Ian Browns lovechild, your latest avatar only confirming that. Is Manc an ethnic minority?

I feel like I should be annoyed, but he does resemble me slightly. Still annoyed though.

 

[dongonzalos]

Odd I thought it was size of stadium as you need 30,000 to show ambition.

I am talking demand and supply if your ambition is to be in the Premiership you will have the fan base (demand) to justify a 25k stadium minimum.
Even a successful go in the play offs will potentially justify a 20-25k.

If your plan is to bob up and down between division 3-4 but have a viable business that turns a profit. Without you having to invest then 10-13k stadium would do the trick.
If you build it at the BPA. Other people will stop you having to fork out million to increase it 25k anyway. Also at that location you will increase attendance purely on the location.

You won't be missing out on 10k fans who can't get tickets. As you would with a 13k stadium in Coventry on the verge of promotion from the championship.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Do you think his parents would have been able to afford season ticket or to have gone to matches regularly? My point was paying customers

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When you live in a western society with work places that have "Minimum wage structures" it means people from all cultures and backgrounds are on equal footing(Wage wise) So by your philosophy can't afford to go to games. What about Brits who are on the same wage structure?

 

[skybluetony176]

I feel like I should be annoyed, but he does resemble me slightly. Still annoyed though.

Sorry.

 

[dongonzalos]

I didn't mean that Hill. I'm thinking more of Chinese students, polish and eastern European communities, romanians, roma gypses, black French speaking African communities, those from iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, somalia, etc.

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They would go to a successful football team, whether it is once for the experience or regularly.
The product on offer at the moment won't be rushing them through the doors.

 

[stupot07]

When you live in a western society with work places that have "Minimum wage structures" it means people from all cultures and backgrounds are on equal footing(Wage wise) So by your philosophy can't afford to go to games. What about Brits who are on the same wage structure?

Yes, Brits on the same structure struggle to afford to go to the football regularly. Not all newly arrived communities have recourse to public funding and like Brits not all are working, and where they are working they are more likely to be in the lowest paid jobs and living in the most deprived areas of the city.

The minimum wage equates to £940 per month, and that's before you deduct rent (~£500), electric and gas (probably on more expensive payg metres), council tax, food, phone, clothing, nappies, busfare's, etc.

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[Sky Blue Kid]

Yes, Brits on the same structure struggle to afford to go to the football regularly. Not all newly arrived communities have recourse to public funding and like Brits not all are working, and where they are working they are more likely to be in the lowest paid jobs and living in the most deprived areas of the city.

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Stop talking complete bollocks mate! You mention Afghanistan/Iran/China/Iraq. Chinese worship football and whilst students are over in Britain will definately attend games. Iran..Same, Iraq..Same, Afghanistan Love their football also. Their living conditions and wage structure completely overwhelm standards back home in there own countries. Your philosophy just doesn't "Stand up"

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Yes, Brits on the same structure struggle to afford to go to the football regularly. Not all newly arrived communities have recourse to public funding and like Brits not all are working, and where they are working they are more likely to be in the lowest paid jobs and living in the most deprived areas of the city.

The minimum wage equates to £940 per month, and that's before you deduct rent (~£500), electric and gas (probably on more expensive payg metres), council tax, food, phone, clothing, nappies, busfare's, etc.

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I think you're so far out of touch with society of today ffs. Open your eyes and research mate. Once again, you're talking absolute bollocks!
*Edit* I take it you don't know about "Working Family Tax" or "Child Tax Credits" and "Child Benefits".... Lot's of these new British Citizens have never known anything like this in their home Countries. All these benefits boost the minimum wage.

 

[stupot07]

Stop talking complete bollocks mate! You mention Afghanistan/Iran/China/Iraq. Chinese worship football and whilst students are over in Britain will definately attend games. Iran..Same, Iraq..Same, Afghanistan Love their football also. Their living conditions and wage structure completely overwhelm standards back home in there own countries. Your philosophy just doesn't "Stand up"

You're talking bollocks. I said nothing about them not liking football and made the point about not having disposable income.

You talk about living conditions being better than in their home countries, that means diddly squad, the cost of living in Britain is a lot higher, and we're talkong about potential if we got to the PL - you'll be talking £30-35+ per ticket, that's a lot of money, we already have people moaning on here that the current prices are too much for a lot of people.

Never seen any Chinese students at the football ever.

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[dongonzalos]

Think we are probably better keeping this debate to

If a stadium is built at the butts what capacity should it be and why?

For me 25k because if it isn't from the off, it will never be allowed to get there.
If we ever get to the championship play offs or the Prem. That is the amount of capacity we will need to satisfy demand.

What ever the starting capacity in my opinion that will be the permanent capacity.