Jon Sharp - BPA (13 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

£4.8m net costs treated as cost of investment in Arena Coventry Limited (joint venture with CCC) (net costs is the costs spent less relevant loans/creditors) 50:50 Joint venture with CCC.

Accounts for CCFC Group show a net investment of £6,808,425 in the Arena Project which was then sold to the AEH Charity for £6,500,000. The balance of £308,425 was written off

 

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[chiefdave]

Bryan Richardson (then CCFC chairman) recruited Dutch construction firm HBG to decontaminate the site ready for the new stadium to be built.
The Dutch construction firm went over the club’s head to secure the land from British Gas, before convincing the council to purchase the 70 acres of land from them for £20million or risk losing the entire stadium project.
That same weekend, the council sold the land to Tesco for £60million after Bryan Richardson had negotiated the deal with his personal friend and Tesco chief executive Sir Ian MacLaurin.

 

[chiefdave]

Council equity investment £10m

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Here is the extract from the book...

The subject of how much hard cash the club actually put into the project has been hotly debated in the past. Some of the club’s historic accounts show wildly varying totals ranging between £6million and £11million being spent on the new stadium project.

But according to the council’s 2003 report ahead of the construction of the Arena being signed off, the club had contributed £2million. It reads: ‘These resources have been used to meet the day-to-day office costs, legal and other specialist advice to ACL and elements of the initial phase of design work.’

That total also marries up with the council’s Arena Construction Completion report, published in 2006, which puts the club’s total financial contribution to the building of the £116million Ricoh Arena at £2million.


Depends what version you use to back up your post eh Dave!

 

[chiefdave]

Depends what version you use to back up your post eh Dave!

Is the £2m you're referring to there the £1.8m direct payment from CCFC to ACL? That's an additional amount not a total isn't it? Its just taking one line from the completion report and ignoring everything else.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Here is the extract from the book...

The subject of how much hard cash the club actually put into the project has been hotly debated in the past. Some of the club’s historic accounts show wildly varying totals ranging between £6million and £11million being spent on the new stadium project.

But according to the council’s 2003 report ahead of the construction of the Arena being signed off, the club had contributed £2million. It reads: ‘These resources have been used to meet the day-to-day office costs, legal and other specialist advice to ACL and elements of the initial phase of design work.’

That total also marries up with the council’s Arena Construction Completion report, published in 2006, which puts the club’s total financial contribution to the building of the £116million Ricoh Arena at £2million.


Depends what version you use to back up your post eh Dave!

The report focuses on costs once the council were on board, it's a council report. It seems like the £6.8m investment from the club was before the council came on board.

 

[Astute]

Which bit? Most of it is in the clubs accounts or the SBT website.
The company Richardson engaged for the project purchased the land of British Gas, Richardson negotiated the deal with Tesco but the company sold the land to CCC, I think for £20m, and they flipped it to Tesco for £60m.
When ACL was incorporated a net spend of £4.8m on Arena 2000 by CCFC was classed as their investment into ACL.
If you go back through old CCFC accounts you will see a total net investment of £6,808,425 in Arena 2000.
That was sold to Higgs for £6.5m however it was split between writing off existing loans from Higgs to the club, paying back directors loans on condition they reinvested and new money. From memory the new money was around £2m.

How many times have I posted the link to show who paid how much...everyone agrees.......then at a later date we go back to plucking numbers and facts out of the air.

Richardson even only last year tried to say that he bought the land and sold it to Tescos. But it was all there in black and white. CCC paid for the land. And with a deal with Tescos they put nearly50m in IIRC to pay for the land and decontamination of it. In return they got to build their supermarket. It was the most that they had paid for land outside of London.

CCC paid 10m. CCFC paid 1.7m in total. Nothing to do with Higgs. The rest of the money came from grants that CCC secured for regeneration from the EU, the Isle of Capri for the casino and the rest of it came from a mortgage which was the debt owed by ACL. The idea of the high rent was to get the mortgage paid off. But of course SISU stopped paying the rent. But the mortgage was paid down a fair bit.

Higgs only came into it when our club loaned more money off them to stay afloat. They took the share of ACL as security.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I actually do enjoy the Grendel and Tony arguments , is that sad.

Yes.

 

[fernandopartridge]

How many times have I posted the link to show who paid how much...everyone agrees.......then at a later date we go back to plucking numbers and facts out of the air.

Richardson even only last year tried to say that he bought the land and sold it to Tescos. But it was all there in black and white. CCC paid for the land. And with a deal with Tescos they put nearly50m in IIRC to pay for the land and decontamination of it. In return they got to build their supermarket. It was the most that they had paid for land outside of London.

CCC paid 10m. CCFC paid 1.7m in total. Nothing to do with Higgs. The rest of the money came from grants that CCC secured for regeneration from the EU, the Isle of Capri for the casino and the rest of it came from a mortgage which was the debt owed by ACL. The idea of the high rent was to get the mortgage paid off. But of course SISU stopped paying the rent. But the mortgage was paid down a fair bit.

Higgs only came into it when our club loaned more money off them to stay afloat. They took the share of ACL as security.

See my post above. The council report covers the project from 2003 onwards. It doesn't mean CCFC didn't invest in the project it means they didn't invest in the construction phase.

 

[chiefdave]

How many times have I posted the link to show who paid how much...everyone agrees.......then at a later date we go back to plucking numbers and facts out of the air.

Nobodies plucking figures out of the air. The link you are referring to is the construction report which is, as the title suggests, is the cost of construction. Do you think they just turned up with diggers one day and made it up as they went along?

Richardson even only last year tried to say that he bought the land and sold it to Tescos. But it was all there in black and white. CCC paid for the land. And with a deal with Tescos they put nearly50m in IIRC to pay for the land and decontamination of it. In return they got to build their supermarket. It was the most that they had paid for land outside of London.

You've completely missed the point here. The land was purchased by HBG, who were working on behalf of CCFC / Richardson doing the decontamination work, from British Gas.
They then sold the land to CCC who sold it to Tesco within hours of purchase. You're not seriously suggesting in that short space of time they did the deal? It was a deal agreed by Richardson that the council hijacked.

CCC paid 10m. CCFC paid 1.7m in total. Nothing to do with Higgs. The rest of the money came from grants that CCC secured for regeneration from the EU, the Isle of Capri for the casino and the rest of it came from a mortgage which was the debt owed by ACL.

So where do you account for the £6,808,425 investment by CCFC shown in their accounts?

Higgs only came into it when our club loaned more money off them to stay afloat. They took the share of ACL as security.

It wasn't a loan, they purchased 50% of ACL owned by CCFC.

 

[Astute]

See my post above. The council report covers the project from 2003 onwards. It doesn't mean CCFC didn't invest in the project it means they didn't invest in the construction phase.

It wasn't just the construction phase. If it was how could it include the cost of planning or the cost of purchasing the land? So what did CCFC pay for?

The land cost £24,099,000
Decontamination £17,000,000
Site profiling £1,975,000

So what did CCFC pay for? £1,758,000 went into the project. I have all the numbers in front of me. Where every pound came from. What was the budget October 2003 and what the revised costs were 31/3/2006. Tesco made two payments totaling £59,420,000.

And I prefer to believe a legal document than hearsay.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Nobodies plucking figures out of the air. The link you are referring to is the construction report which is, as the title suggests, is the cost of construction. Do you think they just turned up with diggers one day and made it up as they went along?

You've completely missed the point here. The land was purchased by HBG, who were working on behalf of CCFC / Richardson doing the decontamination work, from British Gas.
They then sold the land to CCC who sold it to Tesco within hours of purchase. You're not seriously suggesting in that short space of time they did the deal? It was a deal agreed by Richardson that the council hijacked.

So where do you account for the £6,808,425 investment by CCFC shown in their accounts?

It wasn't a loan, they purchased 50% of ACL owned by CCFC.

I wouldn't bother, the holy trinity of SBK, Obtuse and Toni think otherwise as they've seen it in the telegraph

 

[Astute]

Nobodies plucking figures out of the air. The link you are referring to is the construction report which is, as the title suggests, is the cost of construction. Do you think they just turned up with diggers one day and made it up as they went along?

You've completely missed the point here. The land was purchased by HBG, who were working on behalf of CCFC / Richardson doing the decontamination work, from British Gas.
They then sold the land to CCC who sold it to Tesco within hours of purchase. You're not seriously suggesting in that short space of time they did the deal? It was a deal agreed by Richardson that the council hijacked.

So where do you account for the £6,808,425 investment by CCFC shown in their accounts?

It wasn't a loan, they purchased 50% of ACL owned by CCFC.

Sorry but most of that is bollocks.

Have you taken your numbers from information given by Richardson? It was shown to be wrong.

 

[Astute]

I wouldn't bother, the holy trinity of SBK, Obtuse and Toni think otherwise as they've seen it in the telegraph

I don't read the Telegraph or fall for the click bait

 

[Astute]

BTW the total land and build cost was £108,896,000. The other costs were £9,781,000.

So what else could CCFC have paid for?

 

[Brylowes]

I wouldn't bother, the holy trinity of SBK, Obtuse and Toni think otherwise as they've seen it in the telegraph

It must take a lot of practice and dedication, to perfect this level of arrogance.

 

[chiefdave]

Have you taken your numbers from information given by Richardson?

No its the figures in the accounts held at companies house.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It wasn't just the construction phase. If it was how could it include the cost of planning or the cost of purchasing the land? So what did CCFC pay for?

The land cost £24,099,000
Decontamination £17,000,000
Site profiling £1,975,000

So what did CCFC pay for? £1,758,000 went into the project. I have all the numbers in front of me. Where every pound came from. What was the budget October 2003 and what the revised costs were 31/3/2006. Tesco made two payments totaling £59,420,000.

And I prefer to believe a legal document than hearsay.

It's a council report. Nothing legal about it. Accounts are legal documents however and show a CCFC investment of £6.8m

 

[Astute]

It's a council report. Nothing legal about it. Accounts are legal documents however and show a CCFC investment of £6.8m

Like I said what did CCFC pay for?

The document I am looking at wasn't what was paid out from a certain date in 2003. Maybe it was payments to Richardson for the work he did on the project. There was a lot of talk about money he took out of our club. Maybe it was something to do with the design of the ground he wanted for us with the retractable roof and pitch. Maybe it was to do with the legal fees for selling HR.

But Richardson or CCFC didn't buy the land. They didn't pay for the decontamination. CCFC paid less than £1.8m towards all costs towards the Ricoh.

 

[shmmeee]

It wasn't a loan, they purchased 50% of ACL owned by CCFC.

Was more like they pawned it to be fair. It was "sold" for just enough cash to keep us going, below market value and with an agreement to get it back for the same price. Somewhere halfway between a loan and a sale.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

It must take a lot of practice and dedication, to perfect this level of arrogance.

I thought Grenduffy was arrogant, but he's got nowt on "Canyouhearthedrumspartridge"

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Deal.

Psst, psst, hill83... Go on, push him for that last seat. You know you want to

 

[Astute]

Was more like they pawned it to be fair. It was "sold" for just enough cash to keep us going, below market value and with an agreement to get it back for the same price. Somewhere halfway between a loan and a sale.

Are you not listening Shmmeee?

Richardson paid for the land.
Richardson paid for the decontamination. Richardson sold land to Tesco.
CCC stole the land.
CCC gave 50% to Higgs.
CCC forced CCFC to pay an extortionate rent.
CCC wouldn't let anyone but SISU have our club.
CCC never wanted CCFC to have the Ricoh. The plan was always for it to go to Wasps.

I would never have known any of this if I hadn't read it on here. Thanks for letting me know :shifty:

 

[Astute]

I thought Grenduffy was arrogant, but he's got nowt on "Canyouhearthedrumspartridge"

Sorry but I have to disagree here.

Fern is a valued member on here the vast majority of the time. Must be to do with the time of the month :cyclops:

 

[skybluetony176]

It's a council report. Nothing legal about it. Accounts are legal documents however and show a CCFC investment of £6.8m

This is quite worrying. If what you say is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve you) £6.8m went out of CCFC's accounts allocated to the stadium. If what Astute says is true ( again, I have no reason to disbelieve him) it was never received at the apparently intended destination. So what did happen to it?

 

[wingy]

It's been done to death about 6 or 7 times on here..

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Sorry but I have to disagree here.

Fern is a valued member on here the vast majority of the time. Must be to do with the time of the month :cyclops:

That is until he sees that I've posted.... Must be "Time of the Month" All the time

 

[wingy]

This is quite worrying. If what you say is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve you) £6.8m went out of CCFC's accounts allocated to the stadium. If what Astute says is true ( again, I have no reason to disbelieve him) it was never received at the apparently intended destination. So what did happen to it?

How many seasons did we have the New East Stand at HR
2? 3?
Possibly partly to do with that or leasing back the ground from the builders
Or is it more specific than that CD?

 

[Astute]

How many seasons did we have the New East Stand at HR
2? 3?
Possibly partly to do with that or leasing back the ground from the builders
Or is it more specific than that CD?

It just shows how badly we were run at the time. Not sure but it was said that we were renting back HR for the same as the Ricoh rent. So a few years rent on HR plus the £1.758m wouldn't be far off the 6.8m....then add on the cost of planning Richardsons first dream.

 

[wingy]

How many seasons did we have the New East Stand at HR
2? 3?
Possibly partly to do with that or leasing back the ground from the builders
Or is it more specific than that CD?

Ah
Should have checked your post.
Looks like it's time for OSB
Yet he and Godiva did a series of threads on how we got here
Shame they didn't stay on sticky but who'd have thought that even now we 'd still debate it this far in.

 

[rupert_bear]

The original plan for a new ground was to build a whole new ground on the HR site, the plan was to turn the ground around with the East stand running the length of the ground and three new stands being built in stages. That suddenly changed and the old ground and surrounding land was sold off the rest we know

 

[wingy]

Jeez time plays tricks
The East Stand opened around 1993
Must have confused that I only sat there for two or three seasons.

 

[Captain Dart]

It's a council report. Nothing legal about it. Accounts are legal documents however and show a CCFC investment of £6.8m

Then they sold the rights they'd acquired for that money to the Higgs charity for £6.5M.

 

[chiefdave]

This is quite worrying. If what you say is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve you) £6.8m went out of CCFC's accounts allocated to the stadium. If what Astute says is true ( again, I have no reason to disbelieve him) it was never received at the apparently intended destination. So what did happen to it?

If what Astute is saying is true you'd expect the authorities to get involved and charges to be filed. All the details are on the Sky Blue Trust website. Not sure why Astute is choosing to ignore known facts.

 

[chiefdave]

Then they sold the rights they'd acquired for that money to the Higgs charity for £6.5M.

Indeed.

Accounts for CCFC Group show a net investment of £6,808,425 in the Arena Project which was then sold to the AEH Charity for £6,500,000. The balance of £308,425 was written off. CCFC H paid land lease of £308500 in the year but unclear if that all related to Highfield Rd
Arena 2001 Ltd no longer a going concern. Net liabilities of £6,607,035, including £5,225,228 owed to CCFC H. There are no payments to directors.
Football Investors Limited accounts disclose that the company had purchased a 50% share in Arena Coventry Limited at a cost of £2m. The purchase was financed by loans from D A Higgs, M C McGinnity and G Robinson tota lling £2m (unsecured and interest free). The accounts also disclose the subsequent sale of those shares to the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Alan Edward Higgs Charity acquires 50% of ACL from CCFC H Ltd. Shares owned by Football Investors Limited, which becomes a wholly owned subsidiary of the Charity. Cost to Charity £6,523,184 inc. fees. Payment made of £2m cash, £2.5m waiver of loan and £2m to two directors who had outstanding loans to FIL who then re-loaned the money to CCFC Ltd. CCFC Ltd acquires option to purchase shares back from the Charity